Salomon Torres to MIL, Kevin Roberts & Marino Salas to PIT / Latest: Torres WILL report.

[theavrock]

Not only did we blow a lot of leads before Coco, but how many times were we down by a run or two and had another scrub come in give up runs to put the game out of reach when we easily could have scored one or more runs had a better pitcher kept the game close. A top flight closer is important but even the best only save 40-50 games or about half of the wins required to get to the playoffs. It is a much better strategy to have decent talent overall than one guy at the top and a bunch of junk at the bottom.

[bando1234]

According to my Brewer media guide we just broke out 18 1/2 year drought of trading with the Pirates. Obiously they were stll fuming about aquisiton of the great Ruben Rodriguez. Sweet Lou Thorton just never panned out. 18 1/2 years we once again have there number.

[monty57]

I third this sentiment. Maybe I'm wrong (someone would have to research it and I don't have the patience for it), but I wonder how many times we had a 2+ run lead and let it get away before we could get to Coco. Seems like too many times. And if we had held a 3 or 4 run lead, it may not have resulted in a save, but the win would have been nice.

I believe we had something like 18 3+ run leads that we blew. In the St. Louis series alone, we blew two six run leads. I'd definitely take a bullpen that's solid top-to-bottom over a bullpen with one ace and a bunch of gimps. I wouldn't say we're solid top-to-bottom yet, but I'm feeling more comfortable now than I was a couple of weeks ago.

[pitchleague]

I got way too excited when I saw this trade on espn a few minutes ago. I pretty much confused Torres with Damaso Marte. oops.

 

Torres was good though at one time so I'll give him a chance. We'll see what happens, I guess.

[mothershipconnection]

I'm happy with this one. If Torres is healthy, this was an absolute steal. We would not get a pitcher with his track record on the free agent market to sign a one-year deal for $3.2MM.

[dadofandrew]

Hard to believe Sal got hurt last year, after 256 games in 3 years, including 94 one year.

 

Glad to see the Pirates tearing it down and doing it right, finally. The past few years of adding a couple veterans and hoping to win 75 has been an embarrassment. They got a couple live arms for a vet that did them no good at all. They'd be better off going with a $20M payroll and dumping the excess into scouting and some big bonuses to kids who drop in the draft and Latin Americans.

[trwi7]

I'm happy with this one. If Torres is healthy, this was an absolute steal. We would not get a pitcher with his track record on the free agent market to sign a one-year deal for $3.2MM.

 

Actually this is even better than only a one year deal. If he pitches well this year we have the option to have him for another year in 2009.

[giffted1]

I like this move a lot. Even if Torres doesn't return to his '06 form, it's still not a bad deal because we gave up two fringe prospects for him. If he does pitch well this is highway robbery.

[Fatter than Joey]

As for McClung, he is not a good pitcher and 12 decent innings with the Brewers in 2007 does not chance that in the least. Of course, if he stinks over his first few appearances in 2008, everyone will be calling for his head.

 

Agreed -- Remember he was able to get his suspension reduced because he was able to convince MLB he sucked.

 

If we no longer have Chris Spurling on our roster because of this I will cry tears of joy!

 

I never really understood this -- I realize that he Spurling isn't a world-beater, but I'd rather have someone with Spurling's salary pitching garbage innings than Torres/Mota.

[dadofandrew]

After '06, he would have required Roberts and a top 10 prospect. Buy low...

[splitterpfj]

but I'd rather have someone with Spurling's salary pitching garbage innings than Torres/Mota.

 

Yes, but what about the times when Spurling pitched innings that mattered?

 

Depth is never a bad idea, and the team is hardly overspending at the moment.

[endaround]

When I first heard of the trade it was on the radio with the great information of "Torres acquired for relief prospects" which is about as useless as can be. Luis Pena? I'd be tearing my hair out. As it is my fear was waylaid and I can say this is a great deal. That doesn't mean it will work out, but it really only risks a little bit of Mark A's money. He's likely lost more in the past month as the market has unraveled.

[TooLiveBrew]

MJL, if your memory works further back than 2007, your "he just hasn't show he can be effective for an entire season" quote doesn't fit.

Matt Wise managed 37.2 innings in 1st half 07 and 16 attrocious innings in second half 07.

Matt Wise managed to pitch in 30 innings in first half 2006 and 14 innings in second half 06

Matt Wise managed to pitch in 46 innings in first half 2005 and 18 innings in second half 05

 

Matt Wise career:

pre All-Star break 169 IP, 1.14 WHIP, and .227 BAA, OPS+ 85

pst All-Star Break 141IP, 1.40 WHIP, and .264 BAA , OPS+ 117

 

Notice a pattern here? So to answer your question, yes my memory works further back than 2007.

 

I wouldn't count on Matt Wise for a full year especially given how downright terrible he was in the second half of last year. I guess I don't buy the, "but he hit a guy in the head " excuse for him.

http://fuse.superglue.se/pwned.jpg

[igor67]

Outside of maybe the ten best relievers in baseball they are all flaky. Doug maybe spending a fair amount of money on a bunch of arms, but he has relatively little committed to these guys long term, so it's pretty painless to jettison those for whom the flakiness has turned into badness. After the last few years of determing that Ned just doesn't have a lot of bullpen creativity I'd just as soon stock him with a host of guys who are reasonably effective instead of trying to get him to figure out how to use a couple of relief studs and other lesser pitchers.

[AdvantageSchneider]

I like this trade, but I can see why people are not enamored with it. Our bullpen does have a lot of question marks in it right now. Lots of guys but no defined roles right now. That's not a problem, as it's a long season and we can take a month or two to get things settled, especially given the division we're in.

 

That said, the bullpen certainly could be lights out, or mediocre or really bad(or alternate between all three during the season). But that's probably always going to be a problem with a small market team with a modest payroll.

 

People said Linebrink was washed up when we got him last year, and he pitched pretty well for us while he was here. We gave up a heck of a lot less for Linebrink than we gave up for Torres, so I'd have to chock this one up as a win for Doug, regardless of how it turns out this season.

[And That]

Haudricourt mentioned in the comments section of his most recent blog that the Brewers weren't expected to announce who would come off the 40-man until next week, as there is a little leeway for adding Torres. It's possible the roster spot will be opened up just by non-tendering Mench.

[Patrick425]

I didn't really like Chanel 4 sports coverage of the trade on the news tonight (although I guess I should be happy they mentioned it at all).

 

They basically stated it like this..."Hey brewer fans, who's excited about the brewers acquisition of a relief pitcher that gave up more than 5 runs a game? No one? That's what I thought. The Brewers gave up two guys you never heard of to get him." I swear this is just about what Lance Allen said word for word.

 

Nice.

[bork]

Couldn't agree more, Brett. Coco saved a lot of games last year, but how many leads did we blow last year before he even got the chance?

Actually, the last two years. How hard has it been to get from the starters to the closer? Two years ago it seemed like Shouse and Cordero every day for a while.

[trwi7]

Lance Allen is a tool who tries to be funny but he's just horrible.

[gregmag]

Nice pickup. I agree that Roberts has value, but this -- not the Linebrink trade -- is the kind of risk-reward bet a good team should make. The exchange between Russ and Brett a couple of pages back was excellent: the point of stockpiling some BP arms isn't to evaluate spring training stats, but to get a look at some guys you think might help you, combine your eyeball evidence of their talent levels with smart statistical analysis, and form your bullpen accordingly. Evaluating relievers is hard; this approach seems to me as sound as any, and as many people have noted it's also aimed at building a deep pen, which makes a lot more sense to me than staking everything on a closer.

 

Greg.

[Oldcity]

I didn't really like Chanel 4 sports coverage of the trade on the news tonight (although I guess I should be happy they mentioned it at all).

 

They basically stated it like this..."Hey brewer fans, who's excited about the brewers acquisition of a relief pitcher that gave up more than 5 runs a game? No one? That's what I thought. The Brewers gave up two guys you never heard of to get him." I swear this is just about what Lance Allen said word for word.

 

Nice.

Not that I'm a big Lance Allen fan or anything, but he's not the one who said this. It was some guy I'd never seen and I was pretty stunned by it. He had more to say too. Something like, "Well Cordero's gone... Who will be the closer? Hopefully not THIS guy!"

 

[MNBrew]

Depth is never a bad idea, and the team is hardly overspending at the moment.

I'm right with you, splitter. Depth is a huge, huge thing. Lots of veteran depth at manageable (even if a little questionable) salaries is hardly "sexy," and perhaps even less so for lack of a stud closer. But the new players who boost this depth all have had some very respectable success in the past. And frankly, the Brewers have probably ended up doing pretty well for themselves, especially given the FA (money) and trade (bounties in exchange) demands we're seeing this winter.

 

While I wish we still had Cordero, I firmly believe Melvin's actually doing one heck of a job. With Melvin's track record, I still tend to have some faith is his approach & selectivity in the "buying low" thing.

Doug Melvin's starting a serious stockpile of arms that several teams would be quite jealous to have. Suddenly there's pretty decent bullpen depth, and this already after having a surplus of starters. This could become an even more interesting off-season...

 

Starters: Sheets, Suppan, Gallardo, Villanueva, Capuano, Bush, Vargas, Parra

 

Relievers: Turnbow, Shouse, Wise, Riske, Torres, Mota, Stetter, McClung, Aquino

 

Up-and-coming and on the 40-man: Dillard, Jackson, Pena

 

Goodness knows at least on paper the Brewers have probably rarely had this much pitching depth in the past 15 years. And while that staff is far from perfect, it could also turn out to be pretty darn good.

[trwi7]

Not that I'm a big Lance Allen fan or anything, but he's not the one who said this. It was some guy I'd never seen and I was pretty stunned by it. He had more to say too. Something like, "Well Cordero's gone... Who will be the closer? Hopefully not THIS guy!"

 

 

Was it a black guy who doesn't stop smiling or a guy who kind of looks like Lance Allan? Because if it was the black guy it was Rod Burks if it was the guy who looked like Lance Allan it was David Marcus. David Marcus is the biggest tool of them all.

[LUKE232323]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=694529

 

Apparently, Torres said he would retire over reporting to the Crew. I find that hard to believe.

[splitterpfj]

Torres didn't say he would retire, he said he might retire. He says he'll talk it over with his family and that if he does come to Milwaukee he will give his heart and soul to the Brewers.