Salomon Torres to MIL, Kevin Roberts & Marino Salas to PIT / Latest: Torres WILL report.

[bobbledude25]

If we no longer have Chris Spurling on our roster because of this I will cry tears of joy!

[patrickgpe]

there is no room for him. I think just because we no longer have to put him in pressure situations is a good thing. He was fine in the long relief role, but games like the sunday afternoon game against minnesota where we came all the way back and he surrendered a walk off lead off homer in the 10th still irritates me.

[Invader3K]

Just heard about this trade...seems like a fine move, giving up basically nothing for a guy who could be due for a rebound of sorts. Seems like I remember Torres giving the Brewers trouble in the past, but I could be wrong.

 

Not the kind of trade to get over excited about. The only people angry about this are probably still waiting for the Brewers to make a "big" move, which I think will still happen, but we have to be patient.

[Big Reed]

it looks like a good move to me. So the guy had a bad year. every player has a bad year now and then. he led the league in appearances in 2006. he looks good to me . he also provides depth from which to trade from.

 

good move.

[logan82]

I like this deal. The more the merrier in the bulpen as far as I am concerned. Relievers are so up and down year to year the best strategy seems to get a bunch and see who sticks.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"there is nothing wrong with getting as many experienced relievers and seeing who sticks."

 

This acceptance of quantity over quality is for Pirate and Royal fans.

 

It's not as if these guys were being handed out for free, and we could place as many of them as possible in uniform, like a high school football team. Instead of trading for a Huston Street or a Jose Valverde or someone like that, Doug is just bringing in as many guys with a pulse as he can, and by default, 6 or 7 of them will be in our pen next season.

 

It's like New Year's Eve, and Doug, clutching 2 twenties in his fist, goes shopping at Binny's Beverage Depot. With the goal of celebrating with some class, and getting plastered of course, he bypasses the champagne aisle ($39.95 for just ONE bottle! Heavens no!) and heads for the malt liquoe, filling up his shopping basket with plenty of St. Ides and King Cobra, coming in at $34.99. Quality? Quantity? I'm still getting blitzed tonight!

 

OK, we gave up pretty much nothing for a once-outstanding reliever. But he's 36 in March, and has been injured (overused, to be sure) and just plain awful this past year.

 

It's not a bad deal, at all. But instead of a shut-down closer, we got a bunch of pitchers, many crappy in recent years.

 

When Doug and Ned brashly state that Turnbow's closing, it really means they failed to replace Cordero, and have given up. Riske is solid, no question. Shouse is 40 soon, so he could go either way. But the rest? At least there's variety:

 

The Aging Poorly and Rapidly:

 

Choate, Mota and Torres

 

The Scared Witless:

 

Turnbow and Wise

 

The Starters Not Good Enough to Start:

 

Bush, Vargas and Capuano.

 

The Never Had It/Never Will:

 

McClung and Aquino

 

And the Too Inexperienced to be Trusted in a Pennant Race:

 

Stetter, Pena and Dillard.

 

 

The only saving grace here is that Doug may and SHOULD use the surplus in his rotation, along with a nugget or 2, to trade for an Ethier for LF and/or a Broxton to close. LA no longer needs all those outfielders, and if we gave them a Parra/Torres/Irribarren/Gamel package for Ethier/Broxton, we can still win this thing.

 

But if not? I'll stick with good old quality over quantity.

[Ennder]

I'll glady trade last years 1 good RP and 1 decent RP and a bunch of guys who blew a record number of leads for this years bunch of decent but not great guys. The bullpen is better than last year even though we didn't blow way too much money on a 'proven closer'.

[DrWood]

regarding changeup experts as relievers...

I seem to recall a certain changeup expert being the all-time MLB leader in saves.

Yeah, those guys can't produce!

[splitterpfj]

Instead of trading for a Huston Street or a Jose Valverde or someone like that, Doug is just bringing in as many guys with a pulse as he can, and by default, 6 or 7 of them will be in our pen next season.

 

Geno, would you advocate dealing Rickie Weeks for a player such as Valverde or Street? That's the level of what other teams are asking for if you want their closer.

[valpocrewsader]

Thank god for Geno, you need a fanclub or something, man. That said, tough deal to pass up ... he's probably closer to being worth $3.2 million than Turnbow (ha) and Mota (lol). Still, in totality, I'm still extremely underwhelmed and disappointed in what's been assembled so far in the 'pen besides loving Riske and being so-so on Torres. I guess I'm just having a really hard time convincing myself that the $9.6 million being spent on the mediocre boys in Club 3.2M is smarter than having a go-to bullpen ace at $7M with a couple of promising $1.25M young, live bullpen arms to complement. Really hard time. Hopefully there's still another deal out there for a very good or excellent reliever.

[Oldcity]

I really don't get some of the complaining about the bullpen. At this point it's already quite a bit better than last year's.

[Milltownhooker]

BJ Ryan was considered high quality

[PeaveyFury]

I guess I'm just having a really hard time convincing myself that the $9.6 million being spent on the mediocre boys in Club 3.2M is smarter than having a go-to bullpen ace at $7M with a couple of promising $1.25M young, live bullpen arms to complement.

 

And who, exactly, are these three guys, and how did you get them?

[yoshii8]

I think this is an outstanding acquisition by Melvin. I would have expected to give up more for a proven commodity like Torres. I like the way our BP is shaping up. I would expect them to get one more good arm for the pen, hopefully a Fuentes type.

[brettac1]

I guess I'm just having a really hard time convincing myself that the $9.6 million being spent on the mediocre boys in Club 3.2M is smarter than having a go-to bullpen ace at $7M with a couple of promising $1.25M young, live bullpen arms to complement. Really hard time. Hopefully there's still another deal out there for a very good or excellent reliever.

 

I guess I don't know what team is having the firesale on young, good, cheap relievers. They're a pretty rare commodity. I'm more of an advocate of throwing a bunch of guys at the wall and seeing who sticks, but I guess this is a reasonable facsimile of that, except with old guys.

 

To me, they need to build the bullpen front to back, rather than back to front (which is what they would have had to do had they signed Cordero). I guess I'd worry more about getting more save situations than last year, rather than getting a "proven closer" to get those three outs with the three run lead. If they get better 7th and 8th inning work, which they might with these guys who have had a decent track record, I like the team's chances to have a decent bullpen.

[hauser42]

What is real funny is when Doug got Coco in the Lee deal a lot of people felt he was no good either. Coco went out and closed the door time and time again so people jumped on the bandwagon.

 

Not saying Torres is going to turn into Coco but he can be an effective arm in the pen that can reduce the stress on the rest of the teams arms and win games for the team.

[Ennder]

I really don't get some of the complaining about the bullpen. At this point it's already quite a bit better than last year's.

 

Some people won't be happy without the big name closer since all competitive teams must have one and some people think that it is easy to find a young live bullpen arm for $1M. Neither is a reality unfortunately and they will complain about it. Those same some people don't seem to realize that a bunch of 1 year contracts for $3M don't add up to a 4 year contract for 10M+ a year either. These are low risk deals that will be off the books sooner than later so even if they don't pan out it is low risk.

[PeaveyFury]

Nice low risk, high reward deal. Didn't really give anything up, and have a guy who was really good for the three years prior to his bad 07. Obviously, now we'll see if that was due to age, overuse, or just fading.

 

But if he rebounds at all, it'll be a great acquisition.

[don1481]

Who have the Cubs offended?

 

Everyone.

 

In all seriousness, I like the acquisition. Lower-level prospects for a decent, albeit older, arm.

[PeaveyFury]

I guess I'd worry more about getting more save situations than last year, rather than getting a "proven closer" to get those three outs with the three run lead. If they get better 7th and 8th inning work, which they might with these guys who have had a decent track record, I like the team's chances to have a decent bullpen.

 

Couldn't agree more, Brett. Coco saved a lot of games last year, but how many leads did we blow last year before he even got the chance?

[rluzinski]

The more the merrier in the bulpen as far as I am concerned. Relievers are so up and down year to year the best strategy seems to get a bunch and see who sticks.

 

I see this suggested often around and I just don't like it. A huge part of why relievers are up and down from year to year is because of the very small samples they compile each year. Using an even smaller sample (Spring Training and/or the first couple weeks of a season) to determine which ones "have it" for a given year is a recipe for bad player assessments. Now, if there's some scouting information pointing to a possible shift in player talent (loss in velocity, for instance), that's different. The key is to not just look at the results of a handful of appearances.

[brettac1]

Now, if there's some scouting information pointing to a possible shift in player talent (loss in velocity, for instance), that's different. The key is to not just look at the results of a handful of appearances.

 

That's where I'm coming from. I'm certainly not saying to base ANY personnel decision off spring training performance. I think they should rely on the scouts to find them another Turnbow, Wise, Kolb, whatever - a cheap guy on a waiver claim or 6 year minor league FA that the scouts think have a chance to be very good. I'm not saying to fill every spot in the bullpen with those types, but when they're filling it out I'd rather it be with one of those guys than a washed up old dude.

[MoneyballMan]

I guess I'd worry more about getting more save situations than last year, rather than getting a "proven closer" to get those three outs with the three run lead. If they get better 7th and 8th inning work, which they might with these guys who have had a decent track record, I like the team's chances to have a decent bullpen.

 

Couldn't agree more, Brett. Coco saved a lot of games last year, but how many leads did we blow last year before he even got the chance?

I third this sentiment. Maybe I'm wrong (someone would have to research it and I don't have the patience for it), but I wonder how many times we had a 2+ run lead and let it get away before we could get to Coco. Seems like too many times. And if we had held a 3 or 4 run lead, it may not have resulted in a save, but the win would have been nice.

[dpapo]

I think it's a good move. One more power arm into the mix. I still would like to add at least one more bullpen arm though. If you look around the league, you don't see many teams trading away good bullpen arms or even just quality pitching, unless you are ready to give up a ton in return. And everybody is looking for pitching.

Beyond the numbers, I think there are a few reasons to hope that Torres will bounce back. He came into spring training out of shape and before he was traded, when asked he agreed that he should have been in better shape and is currently working out hard and has lost 10 pounds this offseason. He was upset with the former Pittsburgh GM over the contract issue. He was overused the season before. And he's going to a team that has a chance of getting into the playoffs.

[MoneyballMan]

I guess I'm just having a really hard time convincing myself that the $9.6 million being spent on the mediocre boys in Club 3.2M is smarter than having a go-to bullpen ace at $7M with a couple of promising $1.25M young, live bullpen arms to complement.

 

And who, exactly, are these three guys, and how did you get them?

It's a great question that I've asked in a couple of threads. "Sign something better" or "trade for a stud" is ALWAYS easier said than done. It's almost like some think DM is purposely NOT trying to assemble the best team he can. Someone made a good point about "would you trade Weeks for Valverde or Street" because that is exactly what other teams are looking/asking for.