Salomon Torres to MIL, Kevin Roberts & Marino Salas to PIT / Latest: Torres WILL report.

[Nader Raider Tim]

Confidence in Doug Melvin?

 

Uhm, this trade right here shows why that thread should be locked, deleted, and never talked about again. Obviously I am kidding but this deal is fabulous. When Mike Gonzalez was traded, Torres was the reason why they let him go. Going into last year Torres was one of the favorites for closers set to break out. Yes his last year was horrible, but that is one bad year in the last four.

 

Turnbow or Torres closing, with Riske or Mota in the 7th and 8th seems pretty decent.

 

The other thing that this trade guarantees is that more trades are quickly to follow. The bullpen is quickly overflowing with players reducing the likelyhood of putting Vargas, Bush, Capuono, Parra into the pen.

[sweepscc]

there is nothing wrong with getting as many experienced relievers and seeing who sticks.

No doubt, but I'm not going to get excited about it and pat Melvin on the back. If the Pirates thought he had it left they never would have traded him for a bag of popcorn.

 

[LUKE232323]

I wouldn't call it a crappy bullpen, I would call it a bullpen with a lot to prove. It's definitely not hurting for guys with good stuff.

I'll take a guy who "knows how to pitch" over a guy with "good stuff" any day of the week.

Yes, there is the potential that a few of these guys could have better than expected years, I hope they do. But if things go wrong, with the group of guys that's currently out there, the bullpen could also be abysmally bad again.

 

I'm not *down* on Torres, I'm just not at all excited about this. I think calling this trade a "robbery" is a bit of a stretch.

 

Well, it also has guys who have experienced success in the past, many of them in multiple seasons.

 

[dpapo]

I still don't see this trade confirmed anywhere else but rotoworld as the link they have to JSOnline gives me a login screen. Maybe the story is still being worked on. Anyway, here is rotoworld take on it.

 

"As much more trade value as Torres has had in the past, the Pirates are really selling low here. Salas, a waiver claim from the Orioles, and Roberts are both relief prospects and not particularly good ones. It would have been worth it for the Pirates to enter the season with Torres and see if he could rebuild his value."

[dpapo]

Never mind, here is the story.

 

http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2007/12/07/brewers-trade-for-pirates-torres.aspx

[sbrylski]

Had the Cubs made this move, I bet at least one person in this thread would have wondered aloud why Melvin couldn't have done the same.

Hehe, I think I know who you're talking about.

Torres is the rubber arm our pen definitely needed entering the offseason.

As for the pen now, do we just let our three setup guys (Turnbow, Riske, Torres) compete for the closer role? If nothing else, some people should be happy that this pushes Derrick further away from meaningful innings, for those of you that dislike him.

 

And for those thinking another deal is coming, I think its a certainty one of Vargas or Capuano are traded. Its been the plan all along

[splitterpfj]

I like the move, and I see no reason not to do it. I'm really not worried about the guys the Brewers gave up, we just don't know yet what Torres will be.

 

I'd try it, as I'd try most of the guys who will be competing for bullpen jobs in the spring, there's no question that the bullpen talent and depth is better than it had been, let's just hope that translates into results.

[And That]

The real question is, are Drew Anderson's days on the 40-man roster numbered?

[trwi7]

It looks like the reason Torres had a bad year last year was because of his LOB%. From 2002-2006 he was above average posting LOB% as high as 83% in 2002 but not lower than 75% when the league average is right around or just above 70%. This year his LOB% dropped to 65%.

[LUKE232323]

My prediction as of today:

 

Traded: Cappy and Vargas

Rotation: Sheets, Gallardo, Suppan, Villanueva, Parra

Bullpen: Bush, Torres, Mota, McClung, Shouse, Riske, Turnbow

 

Might have Parra in the pen to give them another lefty option, have Bush as #5.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I like this trade a lot. Ive always thought Torres was a pretty decent pitcher. I still would like to see us sign Gagne and if we do that I will at least feel decently about the bullpen situation.

[colbyjack]

If the Pirates thought he had it left they never would have traded him for a bag of popcorn.

 

That's not necessarily true. The Pirates are under new leadership, again, and are talking about moving quite a few of their more expensive pieces to strip down, again, in an attempt to rebuild the right way, again. Torres with his salary, which isn't back-breaking, is still somewhat of a luxury for a team that just doesn't project to be very successful next season, and if they can get a few cheaper arms with some promise, why not make such a deal.

 

Plus, as noted, Mike Gonzalez was dealt last year somewhat due to the presence of Torres. Since Capps has emerged as the Pirates new closer, Torres was more expendable. I'm sure that means Capps will be dealt at this time next year http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif.

[Fatter than Joey]

Good buy low move by Doug. If he has a good year this year then we can keep him next year for less than $4 million. If he isn't good then we can just decline his option.

 

300K buyout-- and if he sucks, we get to do this same thing next year.

 

Here is my take:

 

Back in 2005, my son wanted to send out some cards to get autographed. Topps released the Total set below. They happened to put a lot of the relievers and prospects on these cards that have 2 players on them.

 

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/3483552495ab7190f232ead319e386da4e33e4a.jpg

 

Snell has sent a couple of cards back autographed. However Torres has never honored our request. So, is it worth $3.2M of Mark A's money for me to get this card finished? -- You are darn tootin' it is. Along the same lines I hope DM gets Julian Tavarez and Jason Grimsley in the fold before too long.

 

Good job DM, keep Torres around until fanfest at least!

[sweepscc]

I'd try it, as I'd try most of the guys who will be competing for bullpen jobs in the spring, there's no question that the bullpen talent and depth is better than it had been, let's just hope that translates into results.

I'll maybe give you depth but you really think the talent is better? We've traded Francisco Cordero for David Riske so far. Not sure what to make of getting the Mets worst reliever and some hail mary relievers. I got the jeebies about our bullpen situation as it stands.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

From 2002-2006 he was above average posting LOB% as high as 83% in 2002 but not lower than 75% when the league average is right around or just above 70%. This year his LOB% dropped to 65%.

 

That, and his HR/FB rate in 2007 was 14.6%, which is ridiculously high, even for Torres (his norm is around 9-10%). His HR/GM spiked all the way up to 1.18, where his norms have been more around 0.5-0.7. Basically, he had an aberrant year in both LOB% & HR/FB. That's going to make any reliever look washed up.

[jwill535]

of all the relievers in the league only 5% are lights out while the rest are either average or pus at best. There is no downside to this trade other then you have to pay him 3.2. If he is good then Haza, if he sucks oh well you didnt give up anything.

[MillerParkSouth]

My prediction as of today:

 

Traded: Cappy and Vargas

Rotation: Sheets, Gallardo, Suppan, Villanueva, Parra

Bullpen: Bush, Torres, Mota, McClung, Shouse, Riske, Turnbow

 

Might have Parra in the pen to give them another lefty option, have Bush as #5.

 

Trade Cappy to St. L for Rolen and Vargas to someone for another BP arm and I think it's a decent off-season. The rotation/BP aren't going to be world beaters, but it could be worse I suppose.

[clancyphile]

Torres also seemed to pitch better away from PNC Park last year:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=torresa01&year=2007

 

I think he will rebound, probably to about his level in 2006.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yea, I don't think anyone is really expecting him to revert to his age 29/30-ish years, but adding the kind of output he provided in 2006 will help the 'pen quite a bit.

[Paulus88]

If I remember correctly last year Torres had some problems with how he was used (not as a closer) and was accused of using the elbow thing as an excuse for not playing. Does anyone else remember this?

[fondybrewfan]

I like it. Seems like a no risk high reward deal. I am starting to feel a little more confident. Riske, Turnbow, Torres, Shouse makes me feel a little better and hopefully one of McClung and Stetter can become above average. But I would agree with some other people who have said this already, there are fewer bullpen opening for those starters who might go to the bullpen which means 1 or 2 will probably get dealt

[clancyphile]

My prediction as of today:

 

Traded: Cappy and Vargas

Rotation: Sheets, Gallardo, Suppan, Villanueva, Parra

Bullpen: Bush, Torres, Mota, McClung, Shouse, Riske, Turnbow

 

Might have Parra in the pen to give them another lefty option, have Bush as #5.

Trade Cappy to St. L for Rolen and Vargas to someone for another BP arm and I think it's a decent off-season. The rotation/BP aren't going to be world beaters, but it could be worse I suppose.

 

Trade Vargas and Mench for Rolen, and the Crew does even better:

 

Rotation: Sheets, Gallardo, Suppan, Capuano, Villanueva

Bullpen: Turnbow, Riske, Wise, Shouse, Mota, Torres, Parra, Bush

AAA: McClung, Spurling

[Ennder]

The real question is what are we going to do with all these arms now. Someone has to go, probably at least 2 guys.

 

Choate, McClung, Torres, Wise, Turnbow, Riske, Parra, Bush, Mota, Shouse

[splitterpfj]

but you really think the talent is better?

 

Yes, I do.

 

No, we don't have a guy I like as much as Cordero, but I have no problem replacing Linebrink with Riske, and from there, we've added Mota and Torres, without giving up an arm. Remembering that we only had Linebrink for two months last season, that's Cordero out, Mota, Riske and Torres in, plus McClung, since Opening Day last year. I'd rather have the overall group we have now, for certain.

 

I know there's a million maybes in this mix, but I believe Riske will do fine as the setup guy, that leaves McClung, Turnbow, Mota, and Torres to battle for the closer spot. The thing is, every one of those guys has the talent to fill that role, I don't think you'd find a scout that would deny that. All of them are maybes, but we only need one out of four to step up - I can't tell you which one it'll be yet, but I'd bet it happens.

 

Relief pitchers are mysterious things, most of them bounce around over the course of their careers, if they were studs in the first place, 95% of them wouldn't be relievers, they'd be in someone's starting rotation. If some other team gives your closer a horrible contract, look for the best option available, if you can't find an obvious answer, grab as many talented options as you can, and leave a bucket of balls next to the mound in Arizona.

 

The line of Wickman, Leskanic, DeJean, Kolb, Turnbow was total patchwork, all of them sort of fell into the closer role here, and that group converted 85% of their save opps for the Brewers...Lord Cordero converted 87%.

 

This approach could blow up, but if the asking price for a veteran closer is a guy like Weeks, this is absolutely what I would do.

[LUKE232323]

McClung >>>>>>>>> Wise

 

I'd be shocked if Wise was in the pen next year.