Salomon Torres to MIL, Kevin Roberts & Marino Salas to PIT / Latest: Torres WILL report.

[DuWayne Steurer]

He's cheap, but I also (in my opinion) don't expect him to be very good this coming season. He battled elbow injuries, I can buy that, but his WHIP the season before was over 1.4, so I think his ERA in the low 3's was probably somewhat lucky. He doesn't strike out a lot of guys either. Again, given his age, I'm just finding it hard to get excited about this.

 

You're right, the bullpen costing more than the lineup is more a product of our hitters all being young and pre-arby, but even so, I don't see Torres at 3.2 million a bargain or a steal unless he puts up much better numbers than he did last year.

[Weirdos19]

Good low risk deal.

Pretty sure the Crew will get some cash in the deal also. It's hard for me to believe that we'd eat that whole contract.

If Torres elbow problems are behind him, this is a steal. He was pretty incredible from '04-'06.

Looks like no Wise, McClung, or Spurling next year. Nice.

[TooLiveBrew]

LUKE23... -

 

If you want to use any season prior to 2003, you'd have to go back to 1996 to get close to a meaningful amount of IP, fwiw. I think it's a better bet to forecast roughly a 1.40 WHIP, but that's not the best way to analyze a P/RP. His FIP/xFIP numbers have been solid since 2004. I think this is a solid pickup, and once you account for the players surrendered, it's quite good.

 

A 1.40 WHIP is fine, but it always depends on the other numbers a guy posts.

[Brian the Automator]

It's going to be one interesting spring sorting through that group in the pen.

 

Roberts may not have been in the Power 50 but his strikeout totals (more than one per inning in his career) and the fact he was a 5th round pick that showed improvement from 06 to 07 means he might have been overlooked.

 

What's troubling is that the Brewers don't ever seem able to develop a guy like Roberts who they invested a pretty high pick on just 2 years ago into a quality reliever. Who was the last Brewer drafted to have any success in a major league bullpen?

Well, you have to consider 1 or 2 will probably break camp on the DL, 1 or 2 will probably suck in S/T. These days, having a surplus of pen arms to deal seems like a good position.

[JohnBriggs12]

Roberts is 23. We don't know that he is nothing. He was pretty good at high A last season.

 

Torres is owed $3.2 million in 2008 with buyout for 2009 of $300K. If he's as bad as he was in 07 that's a lot of money for garbage.

 

While I have concerns, I'm about 50-50 on it.

[And That]

He had a bad year last year, and he's going to be 36 on Opening Day. For the amount of cash they owe him, the Brewers better have made sure the elbow thing isn't an issue. It's a good deal for both sides - the Pirates dump salary and an old reliever, and they get two decent bullpen prospects. I like Kevin Roberts a lot. The Brewers get someone else to throw against the bullpen wall, but not at a small price.

[Weirdos19]

Yugh. At this rate, the (mediocre) bullpen is going to end up costing more than the starting lineup.

 

We have a mediocre bullpen? At least it's better than last year and we're not paying 11 mil for a closer.

 

Nice job DM.

[LUKE232323]

Well, another deal is definitely coming. On the 40 man, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but we have:

Starters:

Sheets, Capuano, Suppan, Gallardo, Villanueva, Vargas, Bush, Parra

Bullpen:

Torres, McClung, Mota, Riske, Turnbow, Shouse, Aquino, Stetter, Choate

 

That might be wrong but looks pretty accurate.

[Brian the Automator]

Roberts is 23. We don't know that he is nothing. He was pretty good at high A last season.

 

Torres is owed $3.2 million in 2008 with buyout for 2009 of $300K. If he's as bad as he was in 07 that's a lot of money for garbage.

Would you look at the bright side of any deal?

23 is somewhat old for A+...

 

He was bad in '07, but good from '04-'06. What's more likely, that he'll rebound somewhat or that he'll just continue to drop off? Seems like a no-brainer gamble to me, when you look at what's available out there.

 

[zzzmanwitz]

When healthy, this guy is an innings eater. He has experience closing. Even if he doesn't dazzle, a guy that can pitch in the mid to high 4's coming out in the 6th and 7th is a great addition. Hard not to like this deal. Way to go doug! Now go get rolen. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Mike2k33]

I understand why some people aren't jumping up and down over this move, just because Torres' best days may be behind him. But really, he makes $3.2 million next year(Let's not act like that's some unreal sum, especially nowadays). We gave up Marino Salas and Kevin "Who?" Roberts. It's a pretty low risk move, I think.

 

I'm not expecting Torres to come here and be lights out, but if he can become a somewhat reliable option out of the pen, this will be a pretty sweet deal.

[And That]

Roberts has a very, very live arm. IMO, he should have been on the Power 50. He's still a ways away and we may never miss him, so I can't get too upset about it.

 

Don't we have 41 guys on the 40-man now?

[Weirdos19]

Well, another deal is definitely coming. On the 40 man, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but we have:

Starters:

Sheets, Capuano, Suppan, Gallardo, Villanueva, Vargas, Bush, Parra

Bullpen:

Torres, McClung, Mota, Riske, Turnbow, Shouse, Aquino, Stetter, Choate

That might be wrong but looks pretty accurate.

No Wise or Spurling makes this a better pen than last year. DFA's for McCLung and Aquino could be next.

[sgtcluels]

Decktard mentioned this in an email exchange about the change.

 

this trade is great for this reason ALONE

 

http://homerderby.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/sammy-sosa-4-21-03.jpg

 

He threw the ball!

[DuWayne Steurer]

Yugh. At this rate, the (mediocre) bullpen is going to end up costing more than the starting lineup.

We have a mediocre bullpen? At least it's better than last year and we're not paying 11 mil for a closer.

 

Nice job DM.

Well, I was trying to be nice about it. I wanted to say "crappy bullpen".

 

[TooLiveBrew]

This is the type of trade that shows why the Crew has become contenders and the Pirates are muddled in mediocrity. We give up virtually nothing to get a guy who could help a lot in the pen.

 

To be fair to the Pirates here, a RP has much higher value to a club like ours, augmenting specific areas on the roster, than it does to a team trying to fill holes across the board & build for 3-4-5 years from now. They got a decent deal for them, we got a decent deal for us.

[homer]

Roberts is most likely two or three seasons away from helping anyone. This improves the team now.

 

Had the Cubs made this move, I bet at least one person in this thread would have wondered aloud why Melvin couldn't have done the same.

[Scooter1027]

Thanks for posting the contract info twobrew. So basically, this is a one year deal, with an option in '09 that could look pretty affordable by then. I don't know, there's nothing thrilling about this deal, no doubt, but there's also very little risk involved. We gave up a non-prospect in Salas and a fringe prospect at best in Roberts. Torres' contract is by no means outrageous this year, and if he doesn't bounce back to form, he's gone after one year. He performed pretty poorly last year, but he had injuries and if I remember correctly, he had issues with the Pirates organization. The three years prior he put up some impressive, workhorse numbers out of the pen, sort of the anti-Matt Wise.

[MJLiverock]

His numbers vs. RH batters aren't bad. Even last year when his overall numbers aren't too exciting it appears most of his difficulties were from LH batters. Career wise his WHIP is .40 lower vs. RH batters than LH and the BAA against is .251 vs. .288. Even in his very good years of 2004 and 2005 LH still averaged a hit/IP off of him.

 

Maybe he can be a ROOGY? Or we hope Ned doesn't let him face LH batters when the game is on the line with the winning/tying run in scoring position.

[colbyjack]

It's hard to be upset about the players the Brewers gave up in this deal. I liked Roberts, but I also liked Justin Barnes when the Brewers dealt him for Demaria.

 

And similar to a guy like Demaria, I'm not super excited about Torres, but he has had some big-league success, and Melvin seems to be collecting an assortment of solid but not spectacular arms right now hoping some combination can be sorted out and be successful come next season instead of dropping a lot of money and/or talent in a deal to acquire a more well-known closer.

[LUKE232323]

I wouldn't call it a crappy bullpen, I would call it a bullpen with a lot to prove. It's definitely not hurting for guys with good stuff.

[Robideaux]

Great move. Torres was converted full-time to a reliever in 2004. 2004-2005 he was very good. 2006 he was good. Last season he was bad. I don't like the downward trend, but I think he is a very good bet to be one of our top 2-3 relievers this season. IF not, well I have my doubts whether the players we gave up will ever be more than organization soldiers for Pitt.

[sweepscc]

Yes. I fully expect us to go after Jon Leicester next to help shore up long relief. 2004 ERA: 3.89 Melvin is moving and shaking. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[jwill535]

there is nothing wrong with getting as many experienced relievers and seeing who sticks.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I wouldn't call it a crappy bullpen, I would call it a bullpen with a lot to prove. It's definitely not hurting for guys with good stuff.

I'll take a guy who "knows how to pitch" over a guy with "good stuff" any day of the week.

Yes, there is the potential that a few of these guys could have better than expected years, I hope they do. But if things go wrong, with the group of guys that's currently out there, the bullpen could also be abysmally bad again.

 

I'm not *down* on Torres, I'm just not at all excited about this. I think calling this trade a "robbery" is a bit of a stretch.