Alfred E. Neuman School of Managing

[JohnBriggs12]

Ned Yost in today's JS on the booing of Derrick Turnbow (which really is the booing of Yost and Melvin as well for having this guy out there):

 

"I'm not worried about it, so don't you worry about it."

 

Michael Hunt had it right in his column on Derrick Turnbow in the closer's role: "That is not encouraging news to anyone, except the guy with the antacid concession at Miller Park".

 

Let's review. Doug Melvin knows for a year and a half that Cordero might not be around after 2007. He makes no moves to acquire a logical replacement in that entire time. Meanwhile after ending 2006, in mopup duty only due to his horrendous breakdown, Turnbow returns as setup guy with mixed results for most of the season but again is abject failure in the final weeks of the season.

 

Now we're not supposed to worry about his return to the closer's role?

[1992casey]

Because we saw that Derrick's 2007 successes tended to come when he didn't pitch on consecutive days, and we saw that Frankie would pitch several days in a row, I don't see the twain meeting very neatly. I think Turnbow could be useful pitcher, but it gives me heebie-jeebies thinking about him in a traditional closer role.

[Brian the Automator]

Ned Yost in today's JS on the booing of Derrick Turnbow (which really is the booing of Yost and Melvin as well for having this guy out there):

 

"I'm not worried about it, so don't you worry about it."

 

Michael Hunt had it right in his column on Derrick Turnbow in the closer's role: "That is not encouraging news to anyone, except the guy with the antacid concession at Miller Park".

 

Let's review. Doug Melvin knows for a year and a half that Cordero might not be around after 2007. He makes no moves to acquire a logical replacement in that entire time. Meanwhile after ending 2006, in mopup duty only due to his horrendous breakdown, Turnbow returns as setup guy with mixed results for most of the season but again is abject failure in the final weeks of the season.

 

Now we're not supposed to worry about his return to the closer's role?

He's saying not to worry about the booing. How does that translate into not worrying about him closing?

 

[GAME05]

dual closer role with Riske?

[SoCalBrewfan]

MILWAUKEE: Today, the Brewers reported that they had panicked and were determined to add a veteran closer at all costs. "I don't care who I have to trade, I need a closer," said GM Doug Melvin. "Weeks, Braun, Fielder...they're all available. I'd give two of the three in order to avoid ever seeing Turnbow in the ninth inning."

[Brian the Automator]

MILWAUKEE: Today, the Brewers reported that they had panicked and were determined to add a veteran closer at all costs. "I don't care who I have to trade, I need a closer," said GM Doug Melvin. "Weeks, Braun, Fielder...they're all available. I'd give two of the three in order to avoid ever seeing Turnbow in the ninth inning."

You forgot to have Melvin call him "Turnblow".

 

[Patrick425]

MILWAUKEE: Today, the Brewers reported that they had panicked and were determined to add a veteran closer at all costs. "I don't care who I have to trade, I need a closer," said GM Doug Melvin. "Weeks, Braun, Fielder...they're all available. I'd give two of the three in order to avoid ever seeing Turnbow in the ninth inning."

I hear ya. The cost of some of these closers is a little outrageous. I think Cordero's (or Cordoba..as Cincy like's to call him) contract will end up biting Cincy in the butt, and I'm sure that even guys like Dotel and Gagne are asking for a lot even though they have not done a whole lot lately. Getting a guy like Street is going to require more than a Capuano or Gwynn. Look at what was asked for C. Cordero.

 

I'd rather try a closer by committee then pay the current going price.

[Fatter than Joey]

I'd rather have CoCo closing at $11M than Riske at $7M. I am sure the Reds signing Cordero will hurt us more in 2008 than it will the Reds.

[fondybrewfan]

Do we really need multiple threads about the Brewer's lack of management capabilities. For God sakes dont jump off of a ledge people, there is 3 months of offseason left, we have an incredibly group of young talent that is only going to get better, and we play in the NL Central. Please explain to me why I am suppose to jump off of a ledge? O yeah Ned Yost is obviously the worse manager in the history of baseball and we could all do better than him and Doug Melvin is on over rated GM who has no track record of success. We should hire Wayne Krivsky and Dusty Baker because Krivsky acquired a proven closer and Baker has been to the playoffs, so they must be better

[sveumrules]

I'd rather have CoCo closing at $11M than Riske at $7M. I am sure the Reds signing Cordero will hurt us more in 2008 than it will the Reds.

 

hey remember that thing that happened where melvin never even got a chance to match the red stockings's offer?

[Team Canada]

MILWAUKEE: Today, the Brewers reported that they had panicked and were determined to add a veteran closer at all costs. "I don't care who I have to trade, I need a closer," said GM Doug Melvin. "Weeks, Braun, Fielder...they're all available. I'd give two of the three in order to avoid ever seeing Turnbow in the ninth inning."

Melvin added: "Usually even if I want to trade a guy, I'll use my standard 'I'm not motivated to move him right now' line, but I can't even say it with a straight face. He sucks, we need a closer! C'mon guys, throw me a bone!"

[Patrick425]

I'd rather have CoCo closing at $11M than Riske at $7M. I am sure the Reds signing Cordero will hurt us more in 2008 than it will the Reds.

Maybe, if you are just talking about next year. However, would you rather be paying a non-closer $11 million 2 or 3 years from now, or use that money towards an extention for Fielder?

[Fatter than Joey]

hey remember that thing that happened where melvin never even got a chance to match the red stockings's offer?

 

He could have made a better offer from the start as well.

 

However, my argument was really address the idea that the Reds have gotten bad value in Cordero, at least in the first couple of years.

[Brian the Automator]

However, my argument was really address the idea that the Reds have gotten bad value in Cordero, at least in the first couple of years.

Honestly, as the NL continues to adjust to him and in GABP, I think he's not going to be worth the money in 2008, let alone the rest of the deal.

 

[1992casey]

Do we really need multiple threads about the Brewer's lack of management capabilities.

I hear ya. I was kind of hoping for a Turnbow thread.

 

Great posts, SoCal and TC.

[Ashford Lando]

hey remember that thing that happened where melvin never even got a chance to match the red stockings's offer?

 

He could have made a better offer from the start as well.

I am with sveumrules on this one... Melvin made a solid offer paying a 1 inning guy 10+mil/yr. If Cordero really enjoyed Milwaukee as much as he said he did, he would have been a man and let his agent discuss a counter.

 

Melvin might not be making "pretty" moves as all of us would want to see, but he definitely is making smart ones. If we don't win the WS in 2008, we are young enough that we can make a run in '09 or '10 or beyond -- unless we tie up too much money in 2008 where our hands are tied in '09 and beyond.

 

Remember going into 05 without a closer? Remember not having a closer halfway through 06??? That all turned out all right -- and none of it was solved in December.

edit: grammer

[bigredrobbo]

If DM had offered Coco $60m over 4 years, say, then, sure, we'd have him for next year. However, he'd have been needing to hire someone to check his mail from potential threats, from this board alone!

[Fatter than Joey]

However, he'd have been needing to hire someone to check his mail from potential threats, from this board alone!

 

I guess the question I am posing is what would have been more volatile -- extending CoCo for 2008, or running Turnbow out there for 2008 -- my guess is that the larger part of the fanbase would be more vocal about Turnbow than signing CoCo.

[Ashford Lando]

Fatter than Joey wrote:

 

I guess the question I am posing is what would have been more volatile -- extending CoCo for 2008, or running Turnbow out there for 2008 -- my guess is that the larger part of the fanbase would be more vocal about Turnbow than signing CoCo.

Absolutely agreed! However again, it's not about doing the "pretty" thing -- it's about doing the right/smart thing.

 

(That's not to say sending Turnbow out there everyday is the right thing, rather, not spending to much to impress the fan base.)

[Brian the Automator]

I guess the question I am posing is what would have been more volatile -- extending CoCo for 2008, or running Turnbow out there for 2008 -- my guess is that the larger part of the fanbase would be more vocal about Turnbow than signing CoCo.

But the question your posing really has no bearing. If the Brewers would have been able to extend Coco simply for 2008, it would have been a no-brainer.

 

[Ennder]

Riske at 3 yr/$13M vs Cordero at 4 yr/$46M.

 

I'll take Riske every time with those numbers. Now we just need to go out and sign another Riske type RP because the bullpen still needs depth. 3 yr/$26M for 2 decent RP > 4 yr/$46M for one closer.

[monty57]

Melvin knows he needs bullpen help. He's signed Riske and Choate (although he's hopefully just insurance), and made offers to others, including F. Cordero and K. Wood. He is not going to stop trying to help the bp situation. However, the (i would expect short) conversation regarding C. Cordero ended when it would have taken Weeks. I'd guess the price tag on Street would be similar. We will most likely add at least one more bp arm. If it ends up being short of a "traditional closer" type of pitcher, it won't be for lack of trying, but rather for the fact that the price tag will have gone up to a ridiculous level. I'd guess that under the current situation, Turnbow will be a closer with a short leash. The thought of "closer by committee" could be valid, as Turnbow appears to be better when given the correct rest.

 

While Ned has his faults, I don't see how the Brewers' lack of bullpen depth coming into this season is Yost's fault. As for the above-stated quote, what should Yost say? I don't really expect him to start bashing Melvin, Mark A or the fans. I also don't think it would be productive if Yost (in december) stated that he's not comfortable putting Turnbow in the game. That may well be the hand he's dealt, so he'll have to play it.

 

I do find it somewhat amusing that many on this board will write essays on why closers are extremely overrated and will then rant about our lack of a proven closer and how it's going to cost us our season.

[1992casey]

But the question your posing really has no bearing. If the Brewers would have been able to extend Coco simply for 2008, it would have been a no-brainer.

Yeah, I'm not sure how relevant Coco is to what this team should be doing now. I think Turnbow as a closer is definitely an issue, but we should probably be focusing on what the team could be doing as an alternative.

 

If we really want to rehash Coco's exit, his impact, or management issues, there would seem to be existing threads to do that.

[davego]

Its pretty clear that Derrick can have a role, but it must be much more limited then CoCo. Stating the obvious here, but Turnbow really can't pitch on back-to-back days, can't throw more then one inning and doesn't go well inherited runners. Just off the top of the head, that would limit him to, maybe 65 possible innings?

[Fatter than Joey]

However, would you rather be paying a non-closer $11 million 2 or 3 years from now, or use that money towards an extention for Fielder?

 

I am not so concerned about Fielder's extension at this point -- when we really don't have a clue if we will be given the opportunity to extend him or will want to extend him.

 

However again, it's not about doing the "pretty" thing -- it's about doing the right/smart thing.

 

Agreed -- I guess though I don't think "Not paying a closer" whether it is re-signing Cordero, trading for Joe Nathan or whatever is the smart thing. Like JB points out -- DM has had time to address the issue. I have less problem with exploring a trade involving Hardy/Weeks than I do turning the bullpen over to Turnbow.

 

But the question your posing really has no bearing. If the Brewers would have been able to extend Coco simply for 2008, it would have been a no-brainer.

 

Right -- I should have said "re-sign" rather than "extend" -- my bad.

 

Riske at 3 yr/$13M vs Cordero at 4 yr/$46M.

I'll take Riske every time with those numbers.

 

I will bet that Riske ends up costing us closer to $20M than $13M -- Plus we are into Mota for $3.2