Gord Ash on XM ... Latest: Hall/Sheets to LAD per Stone?

[fondybrewfan]

We could always flip Juan Pierre over to the Reds for Aaran Harang. Dusty would love that

[JohnBriggs12]

Could the public pronouncement that "Turnbow is our closer" be a ruse to get the Dodgers to include Broxton if the Brewers "sacrifice" their closer in the deal along with Sheets?

 

Personally, I'd take Eithier and Broxton for Sheets and Turnbow. If you want to still move Braun, then move Hart to CF, and Hall back to 3B.

[strawbossisevil]

I'd rather have Ethier than LaRoche and keep Braun at third. Kemp has to be a part of the deal too. But we probably can get a stud pitching prospect too if we include both Hall AND Sheets.

Three reasons why LaRoche would be better for us than Ethier:

1) Gets Ryan Braun off of third base, where he is a butcher.

2) LaRoche has further to go before he becomes a free agent. Right?

3) LaRoche should probably put up solid numbers at 3B, which would be more valuable than the solid numbers Ethier would put up in left field.

 

[scrapiron]

Just my two cents.

If Kemp/ Ethier are too little for Sheets, than the Brewers could throw in Hall and Cappy.

 

Sheets, Hall, Cappy

for

Kemp, Ethier, Billingsly, plus prospect

 

Heck, I'd throw in Gwynn and take back Pierre just to get salaries to match up better to get it done, than try an ship Pierre off to someone who overvalues the stolen base.

[LUKE232323]

I really do not want to trade Sheets without getting a legit starting pitcher back in a deal. How comfortable are people with Gallardo as a #1, and Capuano or Suppan as a #2? That's what we'd be facing if we trade Sheets and don't get a pitcher back. No thank you.

[TooLiveBrew]

Precisely, Luke. This is why the vast majority of Sheets rumors aren't going to go anywhere. Unless you include Billingsley (or whomever) in such a deal, it creates more of a problem than it solves.

[jlau20]

I think the fact that it's a contract year will keep Sheets on the mound more than the last few years. Even if it doesn't, but he still makes 20-ish starts, we could probably get a somewhat decent price on him after this year and just hope that '09 is the year for him? I don't know, it's a tough spot to be in for Doug I think.

[Fredbear]

Luke,

I totally agree.

Good pitching can get you to the playoffs, but it takes great pitching to win in the playoffs. I really want to make it to the playoffs, but I also want to be in position to be able to win when we get there.

[strawbossisevil]

While our starting pitching would go down a notch, our lineup would be amazing, and would get even better as the players would get closer to there mid to upper 20s.

[BritInWI]

While our starting pitching would go down a notch, our lineup would be amazing, and would get even better as the players would get closer to there mid to upper 20s.

IMHO it's a lot easier to add an above average hitter than it is to add an above average starting pitcher.

 

[strawbossisevil]

What's the alternative though? In a year we are going to lose Sheets anyway. It would be better to solidify our lineup, instead of losing him and having holes in both the lineup and the rotation.

 

Plus, by next season, we would have some major trade chips to move for a starting pitcher in:

LaPorta (who would be blocked by Braun, Hart, and Kemp)

Gamel (equally blocked)

 

Putting them together in a deal would probably bring us a solid, young, starter.

 

Besides, our starting pitching has a lot of young potential in: Gallardo, Villenueva, Parra. Those three right there could all be above average starters (I think Parra is going to be special).

[Weirdos19]

I don't know if LA would trade Billingsley for Sheets straight up. I doubt it. Trading Billingsley is like us trading Gallardo. Would you trade Yo for Jason Schmidt? That's about the same thing.

 

Everybody knows I've wanted Kemp here for a while, so....

 

Kemp, Broxton, Eithier/LaRoche

 

for Hall, Sheets, and Turnbow

 

I think this would work fine for both teams. I can't imagine Melvin turning down Sheets for Kemp and Eithier!!! It must be because he's focussing on Broxton. I don't blame him. The guy is a stud. Just trying to figure out why Coletti is into dealing all of these youngsters. They will compete next year without making a move. If it's because Jeff Kent doesn't get along with them, they are trading the wrong guys.

[TooLiveBrew]

So you make that trade and hope our rotation of YoGa/Villy/Soup/Cappy/Bush/Vargas somehow works? That's why I mentioned Billingsley (or whatever other SP you'd want or think'd be fair in return). I wouldn't want to bet on that rotation without Sheets.

[Weirdos19]

What you have to remember is that trade would free up about 17million this year. Happy shopping Doug.

[strawbossisevil]

Sheets wouldn't bring back a top SP prospect. Would you trade Gallardo for Sheets? Because that is basically the equivalent to them trading Billingsly to us.

 

Edit: Exactly Weirdos. We could be serious players for getting an expensive option at SP. Silva may not be Sheets, but if pitches an entire year, he might be about as valuable.

[LUKE232323]

Too many question marks in the rotation if you move Sheets and get no pitching back.

 

Capuano: will he be able to bounce back from a terrible 2007?

 

Suppan: will age catch up to him?

 

Gallardo: can he repeat his great rookie campaign?

 

Bush: can he bounce back?

 

Villanueva: can he handle 180+ IP?

 

Yes, I realize Sheets is injury prone, but he's by far our best pitcher when healthy.

 

Pitching is what wins. Our lineup is plenty good enough as is, even if we don't add anything of value to it at the moment.

[fondybrewfan]

With that lineup our rotation strength wouldnt be that big of a concern IMO

 

With a lineup with LaRoche and Kemp added might be as close to unstoppable as their is outside of Detroit

 

Weeks

Hardy

Braun

Fielder

Hart

Kemp

Ethier

Kendall

 

I mean seriously, who needs amazing pitching when you have that lineup. I dont think our rotation would be terrible by any means, but all that they have to do is be serviceable and well win a lot of games

[LUKE232323]

With that lineup our rotation strength wouldnt be that big of a concern IMO

 

With a lineup with LaRoche and Kemp added might be as close to unstoppable as their is outside of Detroit

 

Weeks

Hardy

Braun

Fielder

Hart

Kemp

Ethier

Kendall

 

I mean seriously, who needs amazing pitching when you have that lineup. I dont think our rotation would be terrible by any means, but all that they have to do is be serviceable and well win a lot of games

 

Pitching is always a concern. If it wasn't, the Cincinnati Reds would have been playoff contenders these last few years. You need quality at the top, and you need something resembling depth. Now, we have depth right now (essentially 8 starters if you count Parra), but if you remove Sheets, we do not have quality at the top. I do not want Capuano or Suppan as our #2 this year.

 

We hit the most HR in baseball and were already a top 3 NL offensive club last year. It's not like we are hurting in this department.

[tony2sweet]

We need pitching back in this deal no matter what. As much as I'am not a huge fan of Jason Schimdt he could possibly be had. The Brewers has interest in siging him last year when he was a free agent. I would think that Melvin would want the Dodgers to pick up some of his contract though. Maybe Kemp, Ethier and Schimdt for Hall, Sheets and a prospect?

[billyhallfan]

strawbossisevil said:

 

There are nicer ways to say you disagree, BillHallFan. Do you really want people replying to you in that way?

 

yes there are, but i didn't do anything wrong, and i have been told that i am a moron and that i am stupid from brewerfan.net posters, so the fact that I didn't call any names, and just simply said that it would be a bad offer, I get called out for it? I have been replied to in that way, the only thing that bothers me is that when other posters feel the need to call someone out for something very minor, i haven't got any messages yet, so it couldn't have been that bad.

 

But heck, I'm glad you're here to set me straight, thanks a lot.

[strawbossisevil]

Fondy, you put Ethier in your lineup instead of LaRoche.

 

Adding on to that. Not only would that lineup be close to unstoppable. It would be close to unstoppable for three years without losing anyone from 1-7 in the lineup. It would get better as each of these players would approach their primes all at the same time. I think the Tigers comparison is pretty comparable.

 

Trading LaPorta and Gamel for a big time young pitcher (like Lincicum?) would solidify our rotation too, and also have that be cheap too, as Gallardo, Parra, Villenueva and Lincicum would be cheap.

 

Finally all of these moves would give us a ton of money to use to fill whatever holes we might have left. Be it starting pitching, relief pitching, or getting a better catcher.

[dpapo]

Melvin has left the building. It also appears the Sheets rumor is false, at least for the moment.

 

"Nashville--- Chalk up another swing and miss to the Winter Meetings rumor board.

A report in Thursday's USA Today caught the eye of Boston general manager Theo Epstein, who saw that the Brewers were talking about Ben Sheets and Bill Hall to the Dodgers for outfielders Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier.

"Theo came up to me today and said, 'Congratulations on getting that deal done,'" Melvin said. "'What deal is that?' I asked."

There was no deal, said Melvin, who has sat down with Dodgers officials this week at the Gaylord Opryland Resort and Convention Center, but says he did not discuss Sheets. The right-hander's name has popped up in rumors all week, and he is entering the final year of a contract, but Melvin insists that no team has ever made an offer for Sheets.

"We haven't really talked to teams about him," said Melvin, who noted that things can change.

And so it went for Melvin and the Brewers contingent this week: Plenty of rumors and some substantive talks on a variety of opportunities, but no action. The Brewers did finalize an agreement for free agent reliever David Riske that had been in place since last week, but they hopped an earlier-than-planned flight back to Milwaukee on Thursday with nothing else to announce."

 

"...Melvin said a "fair" amount of teams had inquired about center fielder Hall. The other name that consistently appeared, especially in the Rolen rumors, was left-hander Chris Capuano, one of three Brewers starters eligible for arbitration..."

 

http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071206&content_id=2319830&vkey=news_mil&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil

[HOF4canrake]

How about a 3-way deal between LA, Minnesota and the Crew...

 

Dodgers Give...

Kemp and LaRoche to Milwaukee

Billingsly and Ethier to Minnesota

 

 

Twins Give...

Santana to LA

Nathan to Milwaukee

 

 

Brewers Give...

Hall, Capuano, Z. Jackson and Gamel to Minnesota

Gwynn, Escobar, Mike Bell to LA

 

Flexibility to Re-sign Nathan with Hall, Capuano money.

 

Far-fetched? Yes. Fun to play with? Absolutely.

 

C Kendall

1B Fielder

2B Weeks

3B LaRoche

SS Hardy

LF Braun

CF Hart

RF Kemp

 

SP Sheets, Gallardo, Suppan, Villanueva, Bush/Parra/Vargas

 

SU Turnbow, Riske

 

CL Nathan

[BritInWI]

What's the alternative though? In a year we are going to lose Sheets anyway. It would be better to solidify our lineup, instead of losing him and having holes in both the lineup and the rotation.

 

Plus, by next season, we would have some major trade chips to move for a starting pitcher in:

LaPorta (who would be blocked by Braun, Hart, and Kemp)

Gamel (equally blocked)

 

Putting them together in a deal would probably bring us a solid, young, starter.

 

Besides, our starting pitching has a lot of young potential in: Gallardo, Villenueva, Parra. Those three right there could all be above average starters (I think Parra is going to be special).

Interesting arguments, but I remain unconvinced. First of all it's hardly a foregone conclusion that Sheets is gone after 2008. That depends on just how much Melvin and Mark A are willing to pay him and how much he wants to stay here. At the start of 2009 the Brewers could still have Sheets and LaPorta ready to step in, with Gamel perhaps not too far behind. I don't see a lot of holes there.

 

Also I don't share your faith that LaPorta and Gamel would necessarily bring us a #1 starter. And even if they did, he'd be a year away from free agency and probably expensive to keep. So we're no better off. For this season we've shifted a hole from the lineup to the rotation (a far worse place for a hole IMO) and then we've filled the hole for one year the next season (maybe).

 

I hope you're right about Parra, but I don't see how this would make the Brewers a better team in either the short or long term unless the Brewers managed to get a quality starting pitcher either in return or in another trade right now, and I just don't see that happening. I hope that I'm wrong (as I often am)...

[brewcrew00]

So outside of the SCORE, does this thing have any legs? Or are we simply speculating/treading water with this one as well?