Tadahito Iguchi (Latest: Brewers to not make 2-year offer, probably?)

[igor67]

I disagree with NDOG in that assuming you have a real idea how good Tadahito defense will be it's a reasonable idea, mostly because you can plug in esstentially a .350 OBP. On the other Hand I agree that Swapping Hall and Braun and finding a new OF is a much better solution.

[Fatter than Joey]

I would go so far as to say that having Counsell playing 3B in the later innings cost us more games due to the fact that he just plain sucks at the plate...

 

Counsell wouldn't be replacing Braun, if Braun were in LF

[qrk10000]

End, no offense but that is not even close to what Braun did offensively.

I don't get your point. And what Braun will do in LF is not even close to what Menchkins did.

I misread End's statement. My point is if we were combining offensive numbers, it is not close by a longshot. As for defensive numbers, how can anyone predict what he will do in left field, trwi7? Do you have some kind of crystal ball or something? If he puts up the same kind of numbers offensively that he did this year, you are right. He will far surpass Mench and Jenkins.

[TURBO]

I would go so far as to say that having Counsell playing 3B in the later innings cost us more games due to the fact that he just plain sucks at the plate...

 

Counsell wouldn't be replacing Braun, if Braun were in LF

so then, if Braun were moved to LF, would he be replaced for defensive purposes if he is no good with the glove in LF? Just wondering out loud.

[trwi7]

I misread End's statement. My point is if we were combining offensive numbers, it is not close by a longshot. As for defensive numbers, how can anyone predict what he will do in left field, trwi7? Do you have some kind of crystal ball or something? If he puts up the same kind of numbers offensively that he did this year, you are right. He will far surpass Mench and Jenkins.

 

He's moving to an easier defensive position. How do you know it will effect his offense?

[trwi7]

so then, if Braun were moved to LF, would he be replaced for defensive purposes if he is no good with the glove in LF? Just wondering out loud.

 

No because defensively LF isn't very important.

[Never Outhustled]

Hall at 3B is a better option than Iguchi by a mile. I can't believe melvin is making this so tough for himself. I wonder how Jack Z would sort out this mess. Its looking more and more like he'll get that oppurtunity next year.

[qrk10000]

Excellent post, valpocrewsader! Why in the world would it be safe to assume that his slugging percentage would go up when it has decreased every year and he will be 34 in 2008. I also agree on what you are saying about his defense. People on this board are so quick to dismiss Braun as the worst defensive player in the league yet give the job to a guy who has never played third base in MLB. I'm sorry but that does not make sense. This signing reaks so much of desperation if he is our answer as a starter at third base. If defense is so crucial to the Brewers in 2008, I would much rather we just move Hall back to third. Aaron Boone, Pedro Feliz, Tadahito Iguchi? Come on. That is hardly improving this team.

[endaround]

Would I rather have Rolen? Yes.

 

Would I rather have Teahan? Yes.

 

Would I rather have Kearns? Yes.

 

Would I rather have Jones? Yes.

 

But that might not happen. And at $4 million per Iguchi is a decent back up plan. Now I don't love him but he isn't a Feliz nor a Crede. And won't cost nearly as much either.

[qrk10000]

I misread End's statement. My point is if we were combining offensive numbers, it is not close by a longshot. As for defensive numbers, how can anyone predict what he will do in left field, trwi7? Do you have some kind of crystal ball or something? If he puts up the same kind of numbers offensively that he did this year, you are right. He will far surpass Mench and Jenkins.

He's moving to an easier defensive position. How do you know it will effect his offense?

I'm sorry, trwi7, but I don't get the correlation. If he is moving to an easier defensive position, couldn't that mean Braun's numbers would be even better next year (i.e. less stress)?

[TURBO]

so then, if Braun were moved to LF, would he be replaced for defensive purposes if he is no good with the glove in LF? Just wondering out loud.

No because defensively LF isn't very important.

it isn't?

 

so if Braun misplays a line-drive from LF in the bottom of the 9th and we lose by one run because of that play, that will be ok?

 

 

 

 

[RU Rah Rah]

I just don't see how you can permanently shift Braun to LF if:

 

1.) There isn't a long-term solution in place at 3B; and

2.) You've already shifted your #1 pick from the previous draft (LaPorta) to LF. Where's he gonna play now?

 

Part of what bugs me about this is the underlying premise that the organization can't teach Braun how to play 3B adequately. (They might start by instructing him not to take his glove off in between pitches, including when the pitcher is on the rubber. He looked like a distracted Little Leaguer out there sometimes.)

[trwi7]

it isn't?

 

so if Braun misplays a line-drive from LF in the bottom of the 9th and we lose by one run because of that play, that will be ok?

How often is that situation going to come up compared to a ground ball to 3rd?

[DHonks]

endaround was saying that offensively and defensively as a total package. Given Braun's terrific speed and arm strength (he had fantastic range at 3b), he'd likely be a huge defensive upgrade in the OF. Two years ago we had Clark, Lee, and Jenkins all playing. They all had abysmal range. Now we're looking at Hart, Hall, and Braun, which would be an outfield that covers some serious ground!

[qrk10000]

Would I rather have Rolen? Yes.

 

Would I rather have Teahan? Yes.

 

Would I rather have Kearns? Yes.

 

Would I rather have Jones? Yes.

 

But that might not happen. And at $4 million per Iguchi is a decent back up plan. Now I don't love him but he isn't a Feliz nor a Crede. And won't cost nearly as much either.

 

I agree, End. I just think that the Brewers don't need to be in any kind of a hurry to make any move. To me, this sounds like we are rushing into a deal in desperation to just do something. April is 4 months away. If the Brewers are truly committed to moving Braun to left, I'd rather see them take their time and look at other options, potentially through trades. Mark Teahan is a perfect example and very well could be acquired for excess starting pitching. He is similar to Iguchi but at least he has youth on his side and the ability to play other positions if it does not work out at third base. Honestly, if a major reason we are looking at Iguchi is because of his defense, I find that to be very risky. He may turn out to be a below average third baseman defensively and based on his offensive numbers, that would make him a below average third baseman overall.

[TURBO]

it isn't?

 

so if Braun misplays a line-drive from LF in the bottom of the 9th and we lose by one run because of that play, that will be ok?

How often is that situation going to come up compared to a ground ball to 3rd?

I don't know, I'm just throwing out the thought, that's all...

 

There are times that you better have a good OFer, and there are times when you better have a good 3B, problem is, we never know when those times are.

 

I just don't think it is a good idea to say we don't need a good LFer because they don't have as many plays as the 3B...

[qrk10000]

endaround was saying that offensively and defensively as a total package. Given Braun's terrific speed and arm strength (he had fantastic range at 3b), he'd likely be a huge defensive upgrade in the OF. Two years ago we had Clark, Lee, and Jenkins all playing. They all had abysmal range. Now we're looking at Hart, Hall, and Braun, which would be an outfield that covers some serious ground!

 

I agree with what you are saying, DHonks, and personally think that Braun could make a fine outfielder. I just think we need to have a better plan in place to replace him at third base. I don't mind Iguchi at all as a reserve. I think he could be terrific in that capacity. I do have a problem with him starting, though, at a position that he has never played at in the majors and with potentially declining offensive numbers. End suggested Mark Teahan and I think that would definitely be a better direction for the Brewers.

[Milltownhooker]

If the crew add Iguchi they can still go after a better option at 3rd or CF moving Hall to 3rd. The time to panic is the beginning of April.

[Roscoe Chill]

I get what people are saying about Iguchi not being BAD at 3B...however, it isn't his natural position. How many guys are you going to have playing 'out of position' and expect to have a good defense? The solution to me, would be for Braun to move to the his inevitable place in LF, yes. But you CAN move Hall back to the infield. It's not a rule that you can't move a guy twice in two years, especially when you are moving him back to where he is actually good. I agree with valpo again, Melvin is making this too hard.

 

And of course if Iguchi is just replacing Graffanino's role, then fine. I just see this as being the move to get their starting 3B. Why pay bench players $4 million again when you have the luxury of your best players being paid minimum wages....put that money in to your bullpen! Use that money to take on salary in a trade! Don't put it in to your bench AGAIN. But I think that's moot, because I think Iguchi is being pursued to man the hot corner full time. And I just don't agree.

[PeaveyFury]

I certainly wouldn't be thrilled by Iguchi as the starting 3B. The Brewers could do better, and certainly could do worse. Of the 'actual' options that the Brewers have been linked to one way or another, he's worse than Rolen and Hall, but better than Crede and Feliz. As I said this morning, I'd be ok with it as a last resort- meaning that there aren't better 3B/LF/CF options out there.

 

If he'd fill a Graffy role, he'd be a fantastic signing, though.

 

Overall, I wouldn't rule out the Crede/Iguchi stuff just being used to scare the Cardinals either.....

[splitterpfj]

If you are currently praying for Iguchi to sign elsewhere, or if you're muttering about Doug Melvin under your breath - check out the Brian Roberts thread.

[Roscoe Chill]

If he'd fill a Graffy role, he'd be a fantastic signing, though.

 

I just don't like the price if he's filling that role even if that was what Graffy was making or thereabouts last year. TG also was unnecessary pretty much if everyone was healthy after Braun was called up...which brings us back to Hall back to the IF if Braun is in the OF. I'd be OK with this signing if that was the plan, but I'm just not buying it, he's being pursued to be the starter at 3B (my opinion) and that's dumb (my opinion). And I don't see how the Brewers would be better next year with these moves (my opinion). And yes, I know it's December 5th, but I don't see many more free agents added after Riske and Iguchi does anyone else? I would just say let Iguchi be.

 

EDIT: If Iguchi goes to Baltimore because Roberts is on the Cubs, that doesn't make things much better in the grand scheme of things. Except maybe if that would wake up the Brewers.

[Oldcity]

I just don't see how you can permanently shift Braun to LF if:

 

1.) There isn't a long-term solution in place at 3B; and

2.) You've already shifted your #1 pick from the previous draft (LaPorta) to LF. Where's he gonna play now?

 

Part of what bugs me about this is the underlying premise that the organization can't teach Braun how to play 3B adequately. (They might start by instructing him not to take his glove off in between pitches, including when the pitcher is on the rubber. He looked like a distracted Little Leaguer out there sometimes.)

The Brewers should move Braun off of third place no matter who they get to play third. His defense there is atrocious, so much so that even if he drastically improves he'll still be bad. And a guy isn't going to drastically improve his defense over one or even two seasons.

 

[RU Rah Rah]

The Brewers should move Braun off of third place no matter who they get to play third. His defense there is atrocious, so much so that even if he drastically improves he'll still be bad. And a guy isn't going to drastically improve his defense over one or even two seasons.

 

I agree that his defense is bad. But are you saying it's impossible to teach him how to be competent?

 

[Oldcity]

I imagine he'll get better. But how much better? And how long will that take? At his age, it isn't really teaching as much as a skill set that you simply have or don't have.

 

The Brewers have a window for winning right now, and they can't afford to have their third baseman be as bad as Braun was last year (or even close to as bad). If this was 2001 I'd be alright with him staying there a little longer and seeing how it plays out, but 2008 is a different story.