Tadahito Iguchi (Latest: Brewers to not make 2-year offer, probably?)

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm more on the side to think that Braun will improve enough to be at the minimal, an average 3B, however, I can't say for sure and would never make a comment like I knew for a fact that he will always be horrible as a 3B... For all we know, he will absolutely butcher the LF position, then what?

 

LF is where to best minimize the damage done by a poor defender - obviously after DH & likely 1B. Danzig didn't say anything about 'For a fact...' Braun was really, really, really, really, really, really poor at 3B. The problem with saying he'll likely become average is that you're assuming he's only really, really poor at 3B.

 

You may or may not be interested by the fact that many scouts feel Braun projects relatively well to either corner OF spot. Take that as you will. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

EDIT: Crewcrazy, don't worry. Weeks isn't going anywhere.

[homer]

I think we should all wait until the season starts before we castrate Melvin. The Cubs traded for a guy and then promptly used him as part of a later trade.

[qrk10000]

I just really hope that if Iguchi signs with the Brewers, it doesn't mean Weeks is on his way out for a closer (Doug wouldn't do Weeks for Cordero, but what about Weeks for Street?).

Could you imagine if Iguchi's signing meant we were trading Weeks for Chad Cordero or Joe Nathan? Wow. That is a great thought, crewcrazy. I wasn't thinking that this could even possibly be the prelude to a Weeks trade.

 

I think I just lost my appetite and tonight is lasagna night! Aargh

!

[pogokat]

Iguchi gets on base and hits for a little bit of power...iguchi was actually a better hitter than hall last year, but many here would happily move billy back to 3b...

 

i'd rather ahve iguchi at third and hall in center than kenny loften

 

and the hyperbole here today is dizzying

[I Heart Brewers]

I just really hope that if Iguchi signs with the Brewers, it doesn't mean Weeks is on his way out for a closer (Doug wouldn't do Weeks for Cordero, but what about Weeks for Street?).

Could you imagine if Iguchi's signing meant we were trading Weeks for Chad Cordero or Joe Nathan? Wow. That is a great thought, crewcrazy. I wasn't thinking that this could even possibly be the prelude to a Weeks trade.

 

I think I just lost my appetite and tonight is lasagna night! Aargh!

 

Let's be rational. Melvin wouldn't do that. He understands the value of a closer.

[trwi7]

This guy's a 33-year-old second baseman with unimpressive power, and a batting average and OBP which don't exactly scream #3 hitter.

 

So Braun and Fielder isn't a sufficient 3/4 tandem? I would say Iguchi would be a fine option as a #2 hitter.

[danzig6767]

I think Braun will gradually improve at 3B.

Great, so in three years he'll only be really bad at thirdbase instead of horrific like he is now

I will attempt to make this post longer, since there seems to be a word quota per post...

 

That said, do you have a crystal ball there Danzig? How can we possibly know he'll be really bad in 3 years? I am not against moving him if we get a legit 3B to take his place, however, is a guy like Crede, Feliz or Iguchi going to net us more wins than having Braun there? I still think the best plan is to have Braun in LF, Hall at 3B, and either play Gwynn in CF or snatch up Lofton for a year stop-gap... Are we deadset against Gwynn as our future CFer?

 

I'm more on the side to think that Braun will improve enough to be at the minimal, an average 3B, however, I can't say for sure and would never make a comment like I knew for a fact that he will always be horrible as a 3B... For all we know, he will absolutely butcher the LF position, then what? We can't hide him at DH, Prince has 1B nailed down... Where do we put him then?

1. I never understood moving Hall to the outfield in the first place. It seemed more logical to me to try moving Weeks out there given Hall was a vastly superior infielder compared to Rickie. It's still a head scratcher.

 

2. Sure it's possible that Braun will improve defensively at third. The problem though is he isn't just a poor defender, he's a disaster. So even if he improves a bit this year, he'd still be a very bad defender.He has to improve alot at third to just be a bad defensive player. If we were a 75 win team, i'd be more ok with giving Braun time. We aren't rebuilding though and contending teams are often in a very tight playoff race decided by 1-3 games. Bringing back the same horrid infield defense as last year is just asking for trouble and it will cost the team games.

 

3. As for how Braun will do in left, he may struggle a bit at first, but he is athletic and has a strong arm. The odds he can't be at least league average strike me as fairly thin given some of the guys playing LF in baseball.

 

IMO something has to be done this year to help fix the horrible infield defense if we intend to make the playoffs and removing Braun from third is easily the logical start.

[LUKE232323]

I echo what most say here. He's not nearly good enough on defense to make up for his very average bat, or for him to be a full time starter. If we go from hopes of Rolen to Iguchi as a starter, I'm going to be pretty pissed off.

 

The guy has a career .768 OPS. Good bench player on a contending team, very poor starter no matter where he is playing.

 

Please tell me this is not our starting 3B.

[valpocrewsader]

I need the vent thread...... Seriously, I can't take any more of Doug's canadian shenanigans. Take a solid infielder and put him in centerfield and watch him flounder defensively for an entire season, decide it's a good idea to take a career SS/3B and slot him in LF and hope he doesn't also suck at taking angles to balls/ reading trajectories of balls in front of him/ making throws into the infield (you know, all the things Hall failed at miserably in 07), and now roll the dice and take a career 2B and position him at 3B? How do we know his arm is capable? How do we know he can handle being up closer on the hot corner instead of just fielding the pedestrian grounders that 2B usually deal with?

 

We want to get better, right? Imagine if, in 2006 when we signed Graffy, Melvin would've made the statement that Graffy's going to be our starting 3B for the next two years? We'd laugh, but now we're here. A .765 OPS third basemen? When we've got an advantage at other positions, why knowingly give it up drastically in another? We're talking about an 06-07 version of Melvin Mora here. Exciting!!!

 

I love defense more than the next guy, but to improve defense at 3B only to make your defense awful in CF and RF ... and doing it for the sake of an unimpressive hitter at 3B ... makes me livid. Please don't be a starter, please don't be a starter, please don't be a starter......

 

 

EDIT: Iguchi isn't even at least a left-handed hitter?? OH COME ON.

[southpaw121505]

Could you imagine if Iguchi's signing meant we were trading Weeks for Chad Cordero or Joe Nathan? Wow. That is a great thought, crewcrazy. I wasn't thinking that this could even possibly be the prelude to a Weeks trade.

No, that's a terrible thought. We're trying to upgrade our OBP, how does trading Rickie help that? I really have no desire to trade him, especially for a one inning relief pitcher. What we saw at the end of 07 was just a glimpse of what he can and will be in the future, as soon as 08. Sorry if I'm drinking some Rickie Weeks kool-aid here, I just really think his upside is tremedous.

[qrk10000]

Let's be rational. Melvin wouldn't do that. He understands the value of a closer.

 

I obviously was joking. I should have put it in blue. I think it is worth consideration, though. I still have a hard time believing that the Brewers would "improve" on their 2007 performance by starting Iguchi at third base. He would be a much better fit at second base, both offensively and defensively, but unfortunately that is where Weeks plays. I do not think Melvin would trade Weeks either but you never know.

[Roscoe Chill]

I agree with valpocrewsader. As I said in another thread, it seems like now they've got their minds made up to move Braun for ANYONE to play 3b. How about Bill Hall at 3B? They couldn't get a better hitting OF than what Tadahito Iguchi is? And I don't think Hall should stay in CF just because he moved positions just last year. He'd be moving BACK to where he was more comfortable, not to catcher or anything.

[TooLiveBrew]

The guy has a career .768 OPS. Good bench player on a contending team, very poor starter no matter where he is playing.

 

Not at 2B - it's fine there, especially since we know his D there is sound.

[endaround]

Wow people seem not to understand that Iguchi is a decent player. He's average offensively and defensively which puts his contribution right in line

with what Braun did offensively and defensively.

 

Average for 3B: .268/.340/.434

 

Projections for Iguchi:

Marcel: .277/.344/.431

CHONE: .277/.344/.429

ZiPS: .279/.348/.417

Bill James: .276/.365/.444

[Scooter1027]

I dunno, I'm not huge on the idea, but what if he could replicate his 2006 numbers:

 

.281/.352/.422 with 18 HR, 11 SB.

 

Not spectacular, but far from terrible. His OBP would look quite a bit nicer in the #2 spot than Hardy, and his defense would look quite a bit better at 3rd base than Braun's.

 

Dependent on the price, we could do worse (Crede, Feliz come to mind). Best case scenario would be to use him as a bench player, but I could think of worse starters too.

[Brian the Automator]

We're all assuming that Melvin's giving him an offer to start. What if Iguchi can't find a suitable one, and Melvin's just throwing an insurance one out there?

[LUKE232323]

Did I just see that Iguchi is in line to do what Braun did offensively?

 

Braun did more last year offensively as a rookie than Iguchi could pray to ever do once in his career.

 

Defense is another story, obviously.

 

It appears they are just so determined to move Braun they are willing to throw whatever at 3B.

 

If this is a bench signing, I'm fine with it. If it's a starter signing, I'm livid.

[I Heart Brewers]

Wow people seem not to understand that Iguchi is a decent player. He's average offensively and defensively which puts his contribution right in line

with what Braun did offensively and defensively.

 

Average for 3B: .268/.340/.434

 

Projections for Iguchi:

Marcel: .277/.344/.431

CHONE: .277/.344/.429

ZiPS: .279/.348/.417

Bill James: .276/.365/.444

 

Given those comparisons I don't see what the problem with him starting at 3rd is. Granted, how do the Brewers know what Braun will do in LF? Is it that easy of a position for a player to transition to?

[I Heart Brewers]

We're all assuming that Melvin's giving him an offer to start. What if Iguchi can't find a suitable one, and Melvin's just throwing an insurance one out there?

 

Exactly, if he doesn't start he's a great bench player. If he does (based on the stats) he's an above average 3rd baseman (offensively).

[qrk10000]

Wow people seem not to understand that Iguchi is a decent player. He's average offensively and defensively which puts his contribution right in line

with what Braun did offensively and defensively.

 

Average for 3B: .268/.340/.434

 

Projections for Iguchi:

Marcel: .277/.344/.431

CHONE: .277/.344/.429

ZiPS: .279/.348/.417

Bill James: .276/.365/.444

 

End, no offense but that is not even close to what Braun did offensively.

[TooLiveBrew]

Did I just see that Iguchi is in line to do what Braun did offensively?

No, you misread endaround saying 'offense & defense combined'

[trwi7]

End, no offense but that is not even close to what Braun did offensively.

 

I don't get your point. And what Braun will do in LF is not even close to what Menchkins did.

[Scooter1027]

Wow people seem not to understand that Iguchi is a decent player. He's average offensively and defensively which puts his contribution right in line

with what Braun did offensively and defensively.

 

Average for 3B: .268/.340/.434

 

Projections for Iguchi:

Marcel: .277/.344/.431

CHONE: .277/.344/.429

ZiPS: .279/.348/.417

Bill James: .276/.365/.444

End, no offense but that is not even close to what Braun did offensively.

C'mon fellas, what End is saying is that Braun's poor poor defense offset his stellar offense so much that it brought his total contribution down closer to the average player, AKA Iguchi.

[Brian the Automator]

I will attempt to make this post longer, since there seems to be a word quota per post...

 

If you have a problem with the rules, take it up in the issues forum. If you're going to be passive-aggressive, you're better off just not posting it.

[valpocrewsader]

Projections for Iguchi:

Marcel: .277/.344/.431

CHONE: .277/.344/.429

ZiPS: .279/.348/.417

Bill James: .276/.365/.444

 

Where on earth are those slugging projections coming from? He's aging and trending down in that category very obviously. I don't see how any projection other than .390 - .410 is reasonable.

 

It's not that he's value-less, it's just that it's impossible to believe that this is the "big 3B move" that justifies leaving Hall in CF (where he's bad defensively) and putting Braun in LF (where he'll probably be below average defensively for at least half the season, possibly longer). How is bad-Melvin Mora the answer, as oppossed to putting Hall at 3B and someone else in CF to upgrade defense at two positions at the same time?? We're not doing this move for the offense....

 

And we have no way of knowing that Iguchi would be a good defensive 3B, do we?? We very well might be putting ourselves in position of having below-average defense at 1B, LF, CF, 2B, and 3B now. Let me put it this way, based on watching Braun in 2007, I think he'd be a pretty decent defensive 2B ... 3B is a different story. What if the same is true for Iguchi? (Granted, not to the same level, but still enough to make him below average there?)

 

"Please don't be a starter at 3B" x 100.