Tadahito Iguchi (Latest: Brewers to not make 2-year offer, probably?)

[bjkrautk]

I look at it this way... If the deal goes down, Iguchi is insurance. There's no way to assume that a deal could be had for a quality LFer or a quality 3B. Iguchi could at least play a passable 3B with average numbers at probably a reasonable rate. If nothing else materializes (because either it cripples the club long-term or requires the club to give up WAY too much), you need to have a fallback.

 

My only hope is that he's not "guaranteed" the starting 3B job as a condition of signing.

That's my one big fear about the trade; Iguchi's agent made it sound like he was willing to move to 3b if it means starting in 2008. That doesn't sound like someone who'd be happy coming off the bench if a Rolen trade (or any other improvement at 3b) is consumated later this off-season.

 

Iguchi doesn't "wow" me, but his OBP has been amazingly consistent season-by-season for the past 3 years. There's nothing wrong with a reasonable contract for a consistently-average player.

[TURBO]

question:

 

do you guys really think that Braun cost us games last year because of his defense?

 

I would go so far as to say that having Counsell playing 3B in the later innings cost us more games due to the fact that he just plain sucks at the plate...

 

How many more Rbis would Braun have had had he been allowed to stay in the game? How many games would we have won based on the fact that Braun would have come to the plate at least once per game that Counsell subbed in for him? I distinctly remember several occasions when we'd have guys on in close games, and Counsell would stroll to the plate and pop out to the 2B, etc. How many of those times would Braun have gapped a double, or jacked a HR to win the game?

 

I think Braun will gradually improve at 3B.

[rotoherb]

I'm not sure everyone realizes just how historically bad Braun's defense was at third base last season. If Iguchi can play a decent third and Braun a decent left field, then the defensive upgrade is likely to make up for any offensive difference. Iguchi is also a very good baserunner, stealing 14 bases in 16 chances last season. He'd be a big upgrade hitting second over Hardy's .325 OBP and zero basestealing ability. There are obviously better options out there, but it is becoming very apparent that the Brewers are trying really hard to get Braun away from third base, regardless of what they say publicly. Signing Iguchi probably doesn't prohibit them from doing other deals, either.

[endaround]

Another thing to keep in mind is that in the event of a Rolen deal you would like a decent back up you could play for 30-50 games a year if the need arises. Iguchi would fill in very well there.

[brettac1]

do you guys really think that Braun cost us games last year because of his defense?

 

Without a doubt. He was an abomination in the field.

[brains and braun]

I like this move a lot more if Counsell is gone. What do you do with him if we sign da Gooch to be a super-sub?

[fondybrewfan]

Braun definetly cost us games. Both because he couldnt field and because he forced Yost to replace him in games. You cant blame Counsell for losses because if Braun was atleast adequate Craig wouldnt have been in their in the first place.

[chinabob99]

question:

 

do you guys really think that Braun cost us games last year because of his defense?

http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2007/09/28/that-s-why-braun-is-replaced.aspx

 

I remember this game. He was brutal.

[homer]

To me, this appears to be a replacement for Graffy.

[TooLiveBrew]

We can only hope that's the case, homer.

[dadofandrew]

As I just pointed out on Ramblings, Tad is a statistical twin of Mark Teahen, and is what I would call a poor man's Corey Koskie. He is said to be a solid defender, though you'd have to look to Japan to find any numbers on him.

 

He's only interested in starting, so I'm sure that's the role proposed to him.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

Maybe a muggle like Doug is easily hypnotized or amused by whimsically-named agents who could be Harry Potter wizards, like Bean Stringfellow and Rocky Hall. I heard Dave Riske was represented by Chubby Rubberbutt.

 

"Iguchi gets Braun off 3B while still giving the Brewers flexibility to get a 3B or OFer if one becomes available. I don't understand the negativity."

 

What flexibility?

 

First of all, do you think Doug would try so hard to entice Iguchi to sign here, and then make him a backup? This isn't Tony Graffanino here. I could see Iguchi demanding a trade right away or even filing a union grievance if he was promised a starting position, which opens up more problems.

 

And as far as payroll flexibility, this winter Iguchi won't get less than $5 million a year, minimum. And that helps us land a closer or #3 hitting lefty how? And signing a 2nd baseman to play 3rd, when the dude still hits like a middle-infielder is a bad move.

 

Unless there's a VERY unlikely deal in place to sign Iguchi and reunite him with the guy he made out with,

 

http://cache.deadspin.com/sports/ozzieguillenkissingagain.jpg

 

it doesn't make sense.

 

Please let this be as solid a rumor as the Rolen deal!

[TURBO]

Braun definetly cost us games. Both because he couldnt field and because he forced Yost to replace him in games. You cant blame Counsell for losses because if Braun was atleast adequate Craig wouldnt have been in their in the first place.

 

ummmmm, that is weird, but if that is how you think, so be it...

Yost was not forced to replace him, Yost made that decision on his own, and I hated it from the beginning.

You can add Yost to my crap list though, I wanted him gone after last season, LONG GONE!

[TooLiveBrew]

What's weird there, tr?

[sbrylski]

And as far as payroll flexibility, this winter Iguchi won't get less than $5 million a year, minimum. And that helps us land a closer or #3 hitting lefty how? And signing a 2nd baseman to play 3rd, when the dude still hits like a middle-infielder is a bad move.

 

But Geno, we'd be spending money! It has to be good, considering not spending money is always a bad move.

 

First of all, do you think Doug would try so hard to entice Iguchi to sign here, and then make him a backup? This isn't Tony Graffanino here. I could see Iguchi demanding a trade right away or even filing a union grievance if he was promised a starting position, which opens up more problems.

 

This is true. If Iguchi accepts our offer, it means we promised him a starting spot. He wants to start a 2B - why take a backup 3B job?

[splitterpfj]

This is true. If Iguchi accepts our offer, it means we promised him a starting spot. He wants to start a 2B - why take a backup 3B job?

 

The three teams linked to him most recently have been the Padres, Phillies and Brewers. San Diego wanted him to play second base, but only for one year, so they're out. He clearly will not play second base in Philadelphia, they have talked to him about third base, but I don't know if they've offered a contract.

 

The Brewers may wind up being his best offer, starting or not.

[I Heart Brewers]

question:

 

do you guys really think that Braun cost us games last year because of his defense?

 

I would go so far as to say that having Counsell playing 3B in the later innings cost us more games due to the fact that he just plain sucks at the plate...

 

How many more Rbis would Braun have had had he been allowed to stay in the game? How many games would we have won based on the fact that Braun would have come to the plate at least once per game that Counsell subbed in for him? I distinctly remember several occasions when we'd have guys on in close games, and Counsell would stroll to the plate and pop out to the 2B, etc. How many of those times would Braun have gapped a double, or jacked a HR to win the game?

 

I think Braun will gradually improve at 3B.

 

Yes. But I agree he will improve. God knows he can't get much worse.

[danzig6767]

I think Braun will gradually improve at 3B.

Great, so in three years he'll only be really bad at thirdbase instead of horrific like he is now

[Oldcity]

Everything I saw had Iguchi willing to move to third if he got a multi-year deal. Not whether he'd start or not.

[TooLiveBrew]

Fwiw, stevo, I read 'moving to third' as 'in order to start at that spot' when I encountered that blurb.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"But Geno, we'd be spending money! It has to be good, considering not spending money is always a bad move. '

 

Ahh, Sam, you still don't know me. You think I operate in such absolutes. Of course I want them to spend money, but I wasn't pro-Jeff Hammonds then, and I'm not pro-Iguchi now.

 

Let's see...A few days ago, we were willing to take on a big-money player like a Scott Rolen, and instead, a few days later, there's talk of Aaron Boone and Tadahito Iguchi, instead?

 

Doug's really shooting for the anthills now, isn't he?

 

These 2 possible moves smack of desperation. We need a young-ish corner outfielder or a 3B to bat 3rd, and to be either a lefty or a switch hitter. This guy's a 33-year-old second baseman with unimpressive power, and a batting average and OBP which don't exactly scream #3 hitter. He'd be a great pickup for the Royals, Pirates, Rays or the Giants, but not us.

 

Apparently Doug's hell-bent on making another hitter uncomfortable and switching Braun to the outfield this time, and he'll take ANY free agent infielder and force HIM to switch positions, too.

 

No wonder why our defense will still be near the bottom....

[TURBO]

I think Braun will gradually improve at 3B.

Great, so in three years he'll only be really bad at thirdbase instead of horrific like he is now

I will attempt to make this post longer, since there seems to be a word quota per post...

 

That said, do you have a crystal ball there Danzig? How can we possibly know he'll be really bad in 3 years? I am not against moving him if we get a legit 3B to take his place, however, is a guy like Crede, Feliz or Iguchi going to net us more wins than having Braun there? I still think the best plan is to have Braun in LF, Hall at 3B, and either play Gwynn in CF or snatch up Lofton for a year stop-gap... Are we deadset against Gwynn as our future CFer?

 

I'm more on the side to think that Braun will improve enough to be at the minimal, an average 3B, however, I can't say for sure and would never make a comment like I knew for a fact that he will always be horrible as a 3B... For all we know, he will absolutely butcher the LF position, then what? We can't hide him at DH, Prince has 1B nailed down... Where do we put him then?

[danzig6767]

This is true. If Iguchi accepts our offer, it means we promised him a starting spot. He wants to start a 2B - why take a backup 3B job?

That seems the case to me also if we sign him

If he can play good defense at third i could tolerate this signing, it beats getting Feliz or Boone, but it's sure hard to get excited for. The only thing to like will be not having to watch Braun next year butcher one play after another at third.

 

[valpocrewsader]

If Iguchi is signed to be our opening day starting 3B, that is an insult to Brewers fans. I would want my money back. And I would want to physically hurt Melvin....

[crewcrazy]

I just really hope that if Iguchi signs with the Brewers, it doesn't mean Weeks is on his way out for a closer (Doug wouldn't do Weeks for Cordero, but what about Weeks for Street?).