3B options, Latest: Ensberg discussion

[theavrock]

Better defense does mean more wins. Crede is not better than Menchkins, but he is not that far off. Healthy he will give us .260-.280 with an OPS between .720 and .810 with probably 15 HR's. SO we would not be losing that much offense, while improving our defense significantly. Had that been the case last year, we would have been a playoff team. That is what its about

[brewerfan82]

So we want a good fielder and a proven 'winner' at third base... don't we already have Craig Counsell?? Heck, he works the count and gets on base at a significantly better rate than Crede as well!

 

I'm joking, kind of...

 

I don't buy into the 'he carried the team for a month' and 'hits tough pitchers well' stuff. That just means he was that much worse than his stats indicate during the other 5 months of the season and against mediocre pitching.

 

I understand the need to improve the team's defense, especially at third, but if Crede's the answer, I really hope we still make a move for a left-handed outfield bat to get on base in the two hole as well.

[dpapo]

As MNBrew pointed out, the Crede rumor was written last night. The writer took the rumor and wrote a larger story on it at 8:56 PM Eastern time last night and it doesn't seem as if anyone else has heard about this rumor anywhere else. Doesn't mean it's not true, but there are a bunch of rumors floating around out there.

As far as Crede, eh. Most of the options left are either eh or yuck. I am starting to wonder if Melvin really wants to move Braun to the outfield. I think Colby mention this a day or two ago. He says he's not really looking to move Braun, but it seems like the Brewers are connected to every 3rd baseman that might be available in baseball. We know they've talked to St. Louis abour Rolen. I believe I saw they talked to Baltimore about Tejada briefly. Looked into Feliz, Iguchi and others. Might have an interest in Blalock if Texas were to give them a call and didn't ask for the moon.

It could be that there is a strong interst in getting another 3rd baseman or a case of reporters knowing that the Brewers might have an interest in a 3rd baseman and connecting them to every 3rd baseman out there.

[theavrock]

Because we have Crede for one year and Feliz for at least three. If Crede doesnt work out, you dump him and move on next off season. If Feliz doesnt work out you are stuck. Besides who knows what will be out there next year for 3b men.

[aracko]

Not to go ahead and get all conservative here cause thats really not my style. It just makes too much sense. Building off of And That suggestion, why not just move Hall to 3b, Sign Lofton to a 1 year deal to play CF? OF is Braun, Lofton, Hart.

 

You still have an abundance of Pitchers to get something done with as the season builds, but a Lofton signing fills needs for defense at 3b, moves Braun to LF (which has grown on me) , and gives us a leadoff hitter who knows how to get on base. Weeks can drop down in the order where he will be able to produce more runs.

 

Id suggest getting Lofton before someone else does. I could think of worse guys to "get stuck with" .

[And That]

What do you mean if Feliz doesn't work out? He's crap with the bat and has a very good glove, we already know that. I don't want either of them, but I don't want to give up anything for "proven winner Chicagoans weep o'er him" Joe Crede.

[qrk10000]

The team's biggest two problems with every day players last year were defense and OBP. Crede fixes the defense, but actually makes the OBP situation worse. There are copious better options... and if you don't care about OBP, why not go with Feliz and not give anyone up?

 

I guess it depends on whom you are giving up. It is hard for me to cast judgement either way right now until...

 

1.) We know for sure that Melvin is even interested.

2.) We know what we would have to give up in order to acquire him.

 

If this was a matter of trading Claudio Vargas and a B-Level prospect, I don't see the harm at all. He won't be expensive and if he bombs out, he'd be gone after the season.

[Paul77]

Not to go ahead and get all conservative here cause thats really not my style. It just makes too much sense. Building off of And That suggestion, why not just move Hall to 3b, Sign Lofton to a 1 year deal to play CF? OF is Braun, Lofton, Hart.

 

You still have an abundance of Pitchers to get something done with as the season builds, but a Lofton signing fills needs for defense at 3b, moves Braun to LF (which has grown on me) , and gives us a leadoff hitter who knows how to get on base. Weeks can drop down in the order where he will be able to produce more runs.

 

Id suggest getting Lofton before someone else does. I could think of worse guys to "get stuck with" .

Doug are you listening? Short of getting Rollen or another "big" third baseman, this is the scenario I've been hoping for for most of the winter. I'd take Lofton over most of the guys we've been hearing about. No one really excites me to much so if Lofton can be had for a 1 year deal we can regroup and hope for a better answer next year without getting locked into a Pedro Feliz type player.

 

[Big Reed]

looking at crede's career numbers, i would have predicted Crede would have had a big year in 2007. it didn't happen. His homerun totals had increased 4 consecutive years. His kos decreased 3 consecutive years. his errors remained the same over an increased amount of games. his fielding % increased 5 consecutive years. his average, OBP, slug and ops all increased 3 consecutive years.

 

Then last year came, and he had a bad year. part of it was due to injury. part of it was due to josh fields' arrival.

 

Can Crede bounce back, and continue the trend of improvement he had from 2003 through 2006? I think he can.

[twobrewers]

Aracko is my hero.

 

(I would love to hear someone ask Bill Hall if he was willing to move back to 3B. Kenny Lofton makes so much sense. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't be interested in that scenario)

[southpaw121505]

Lofton scenario is interesting. He shouldn't be too expensive, and would allow for some real flexibility to improve the pen even more. I like the idea of getting a short term CF and moving Hall to third and Braun to left. If Braun looks comfortable in Left you can feel it out if he'd be an option to move to Center when LaPorta is ready.

[MoneyballMan]

Lofton scenario is interesting. He shouldn't be too expensive, and would allow for some real flexibility to improve the pen even more. I like the idea of getting a short term CF and moving Hall to third and Braun to left. If Braun looks comfortable in Left you can feel it out if he'd be an option to move to Center when LaPorta is ready.

No way Braun could play CF - possibly Hart long-term or you'd be looking for someone else.

[And That]

Lofon probably can't play CF anymore. If they sign him and move Hall back to the infield, Hart would go to center and Braun to right.

[jwill535]

according to Tom, Tad could get an offer from the Brewers.

[aracko]

And That - I think Harts future is CF Anyhow and Ryan Brauns arm would be of better use in RF anyhow to be completely honest. What do you think?

 

Lofton did play 47 games in LF last year and 83 in Center........while it might not be the ideal spot for him I think he can still play CF .

[colbyjack]

I want a show of hands. How many of you guys out there that are knocking Crede (another Wes Helms? please) know any hardcore White Sox fans?

 

My brother is one as are several other people I work with and play golf with. In 2006, Joe Crede was the most liked by long time Sox fans of any player on their roster.

 

JohnBriggs, I took your advice and reached out to the one die-hard White Sox fan that I know. He basically said that Crede is awesome and a huge fan favorite like you said, but the Sox are concerned about his back, which is a big reason why he's on the trading block (like you also said).

[brettac1]

I think Joe Crede is an amazing defender at 3B. However, you'd be punting on OBP, and at a corner spot, no less. I don't think that's ever a good idea. One thing that is scaring me right now is that the Brewers are approaching the filling out of the roster as though they feel they have "enough" offense, and might be willing to overlook it at third base.

 

In Rolen's injury situation, I'm willing to kind of look past it because I think he can still be a really good hitter. Crede's got some back issues, and he's not that great of a hitter, so I'd pass on him.

[TURBO]

So, we won't be able to depend on him until the last month? Forget it!

Hey, that's pretty much how Geoff Jenkins performed over the last couple years.

 

and he is finally gone!

[TURBO]

why are we desperate to move Braun to LF...

 

Did Braun actually lose us games last year due to his defense? Did we lose more games based on the fact that Nedly replaced him for the weakstick known as Craig Counsell in the later innings, due to the fact that Counsell is a horrible hitter? Could Braun have won us a game or 3 more by having him remain in the line-up to hit?

[TooLiveBrew]

Did Braun actually lose us games last year due to his defense?

Yes, absolutely. The rest of what you've wondered about is the marginal stuff imo.

[MJLiverock]

How healthy is Crede really? He had back problems which I think are pretty hard to overcome. Did he have offseason surgery? While he recover in an offseason or will it take two years. Will he always have cronic back issues? These are questions that come to my mind and make me leary of saying he will be better than 2007.

[MillerParkSouth]

just to lighten the mood around here, I found this gem over on a Cubs message board thread about Joe Crede to the Brewers.

 

I seriously think Braun is expendable at this point. Whatever your opinion is about his defense, they seem hell-bent on finding a replacement for him at 3B rather than let him try and settle in and learn the position. If they throw him into the OF, his value will decline and there will not be enough playing time to go around for everyone vying for a spot. If I were an AL team or an NL team in a rebuilding mode, I'd be poking around the Brewers' camp to see what Braun's availability would be.

[TooLiveBrew]

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

 

Thanks for posting that, MPS. What a poorly-informed post.

[TURBO]

If Braun is expendable, who do they think is going to play either LF or 3B for us this coming season?

 

Not enough playing time in the OF? lol

 

Cubs fans are something aren't they?

[TooLiveBrew]

I think it's just bc he's relatively new, but I have to admit that at times this offseason, I almost have to remind myself, "Oh yea - Ryan Braun's on this team, too." 2008 is going to be so much fun.