3B options, Latest: Ensberg discussion

[JohnBriggs12]

When talking in-house options, everyone just says "Bill Hall" to 3B.

 

I'd take another road. To me JJ Hardy doesn't possess the range at SS. I'd move him to 3B, and Hall to SS (which is his natural position anyway). If Iguchi wants to sign, I move Weeks to CF, and open up 2B for Iguchi who's far and away a better defender than Weeks. You do lose a little reliability at short but make up for it at 2nd, get an upgrade at 3B, and something close to a wash in CF.

[twobrewers]

Crede's careers line .259/.305/.446/.750

Feliz's career line .252/.288/.433/.721

Rolen's 2007 line .265/.331/.398/.729

Blalock's career line .272/.337/.462/.798

Hall's career line .264/.320/.467/.787

 

I used Rolen's 2007 since he is a large injury risk. We have no way of knowing if he will be able to regain any of his previous form. And I think it is most likely that he would put up numbers close to 2007 - although, he would have the highest ceiling.

 

Looking at the numbers, my initial reaction is that if Melvin were to trade for Crede - I would rather just sign Feliz. The numbers aren't all that different and Feliz wouldn't require giving up any players. Blalock is the most attractive player (other than Rolen) on the trade market.

 

However, moving Bill Hall to 3B, which honestly sounds possible and acquiring a Luke Scott type player seems like the best case scenario at this point.

[Tbadder]

I think in the end the simplest solution works best. Hall to 3B, Braun to LF, Gwynn to CF. I know no one like Tony Jr. but sometimes a GM has to force himself to turn down deals. Every team has weaknesses, and the Crew will have them in CF and C. But the defense should be imporved significantly, and maybe that's all the Brewers need if the other in house players get better. Sure I'd like to see then sign Fukudome, but I doubt it'll happen. Sure, I'd like them to sign Jones, trade for Blalock to platoon at 3B with Hall, but too many dominoes have to fall. Look, if they do it as mentioned above, maybe they can ink Sheeter to a long term deal. Maybe they can focus on a closer or obtaining a top-notch starter to push others into the pen. I don't know.

[SoCalBrewfan]

There's something to be said for Hardy at 3b, Hall at short, and either Weeks or Braun to CF...seems to me scouts (as well as posters here) have proposed those two moves before, and that Weeks even has some CF experience from college or something similar. That might well be their best defensive alignment, with either a new 2b (Iguchi?) or a new LF (DeJesus etc).

 

I wonder how willing the Brewer would be to consider wholesale shifting like that again, given the issues they had with Hall last year learning a new position on the job. It also seems to me that they are now committed to Weeks at second, for better or worse...I've heard no rumblings that he might move.

 

Crede has a very good defensive rep at 3b, and it seems to me that I've seen numbers to support that. If you're going for D at third, he's a good choice though not as good with the glove as Feliz. He never walks, though, and would have an OBP in the Estrada range in all likelihood. Feliz of course is even worse offensively.

 

We'll see...after Rolen, any of the external solutions seem depressing.

[gregmag]

I've harped on this before, but there's another good reason to consider moving Weeks off 2b: second basemen get hurt a lot. Historically a lot of guys with offensive potential, especially power potential, have moved from 2b to the outfield -- Aaron, Gant, Tartabull . . . part of it is defensive shortcomings, but part of it is also that the player has enough bat for a less demanding, and less dangerous, offensive position.

 

We talk a lot about maximizing value by keeping guys at the toughest defensive position they can play, and generally I agree with that. But sometimes defensive demands can drag a player's offense down, especially if the position gets the player hurt. I still love Weeks' future; I'd kind of just like to stick him in CF and let him hit.

 

All of that said, SoCal makes a good point about the idea of moving multiple guys around; generally contending teams don't like to do that. I have no idea whether they're right, but it seems unlikely to happen.

 

Greg.

[berniebrewer4life]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AkeXgkCanSUYGZxidm.bQNcRvLYF?slug=updatesfromthewintermeet&prov=tsn&type=lgns

 

Milwaukee

 

The Brewers are having an active day. According to a club official, the club has worked out a contract for free-agent righthander David Riske, who will get a chance to be Milwaukee's closer. In addition, the Brewers are close to obtaining third baseman Joe Crede from the Chicago White Sox. With the addition of Crede, the Brewers could move NL rookie of the year Ryan Braun to left field. Braun had severe defensive problems at third.

 

Depending on what we give up, this could be a pretty sweet deal if it actually happens.

[Fatter than Joey]

All of that said, SoCal makes a good point about the idea of moving multiple guys around; generally contending teams don't like to do that.

 

Generally contending teams are a lot more veteran dependent than the Brewers are.

[chinabob99]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AkeXgkCanSUYGZxidm.bQNcRvLYF?slug=updatesfromthewintermeet&prov=tsn&type=lgns

 

Milwaukee

 

The Brewers are having an active day. According to a club official, the club has worked out a contract for free-agent righthander David Riske, who will get a chance to be Milwaukee's closer. In addition, the Brewers are close to obtaining third baseman Joe Crede from the Chicago White Sox. With the addition of Crede, the Brewers could move NL rookie of the year Ryan Braun to left field. Braun had severe defensive problems at third.

 

Depending on what we give up, this could be a pretty sweet deal if it actually happens.

I have to question this report. The deal with Riske wasn't "worked out" today, its been in place for a week. I'd be OK with Crede if the Brewers gave up nothing for him. And by nothing, I mean Aquino.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't like the sound of that report, but... "close to obtaining...Crede" could simply mean that the sides have talked. "Close" could be - if we'd offer them something of value, he'd be ours. That doesn't necessarily mean Doug wants to do so.

 

I'll nervously await the outcome of this.

[brewerfan82]

Ugh... I do not see the point of adding Crede. The past three seasons he's hit .262/.306/.458 18.14 AB/BB, 7.72 AB/K. That doesn't seem like the type of batter we wanted to add to this lineup.

[TooLiveBrew]

Not exactly Doug's "professional hitter."

[Fear The Chorizo]

with the position the White Sox are in regarding Crede (already have their 3B in Fields, only 1 yr left on Crede's deal), I would think that the Brewers have plenty of players they don't anticipate being significant contributors that the White Sox could possibly want (Vargas, Gwynn, Aquino, Mench, etc)

 

Interesting to see exactly what Crede's trade value is

[RyDogg66]

Welcome back Wes Helms.

[MNBrew]

That Yahoo sports report mentioning Riske & Crede was posted last night at 7 p.m. It's 17 hours later, smack in the middle of the Winter Meetings. The fact that that rumor's not duplicated heavily elsewhere would seem to be something of an indicator of its validity, too.

[brewerfan82]

Welcome back Wes Helms.

As disgusting as it sounds, I would rather have Helms offensively than Crede... this better be bad info.

Three year splits:

Helms: .288/.345/.462 12.74 AB/BB, 4.68 AB/K

Crede: .262/.306/.458 18.14 AB/BB, 7.72 AB/K

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Ugh... I do not see the point of adding Crede. The past three seasons he's hit .262/.306/.458 18.14 AB/BB, 7.72 AB/K. That doesn't seem like the type of batter we wanted to add to this lineup.

 

the season before he was injured, he hit 30 HR and had an OBP of .323. he only walked 28 times, but he only k'd 58 times.

 

if anything, throw out his #'s from last year's injury-riddled season, average his 2005-06 season totals and lower the numbers by a percentage to project what he could do when healthy.

 

average production from 05+06:

 

.270 BA, near .485 SLG, near .317 OBP, near .800 OPS - 60k, 26bb, 27HR

 

That line is darn close to what Menchkins provided last season, and that doesn't take into account that Crede is a plus defensive 3B, and the upgrade he would provide to the team defense is definitely worth sacrificing some offense.

 

This argument is all assuming that Crede is actually 100% healthy, which is a big question mark. I get that he doesn't have a great obp, but his low strikeout totals (for a guy who hits 20+ HR per season) indicate that he does at least an adequate job of working at-bats. The Brewers upgraded their C position in terms of obp with Kendall, and a HEALTHY Crede would be a huge defensive upgrade at 3rd, without sacrificing that much offensive production.

 

Ask a White Sox fan how valuable Crede was during their world series run and the season after - he played great defense, and also came up with a lot of big hits in key situations for those teams.

[Patrick425]

I really hope they don't get Crede. FTC, IMHO, .323 and .317 OBPs are not good. He has a .305 lifetime OBP, which is horrible. Pass.

[RobertR]

I suppose that the Brewers could always move Crede again during the offseason if the Rolen talks restart. Capuano + Crede probably would look attractive to the Cardinals.

 

Not a fan of Crede though. Decent enough defensively, but offensively he leaves a lot to be desired.

 

Robert

[Weirdos19]

What is Crede's contract situation? I know he made 4.9 mil last year.

 

If we aren't getting rid of a starting position player, there is no room for Crede. I think Gross and Dillon in left would easily outperform Crede.

 

So, maybe we get money kicked in and use Crede as a backup at third and first. That all depends on how long he's signed. I hope that's what DM is planning.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I never said those OBP's were good, what I'm trying to say is that there isn't an ideal player out there that provides a .350 OBP plus very good defense at third base. I guess it comes down to whether people value OBP more than watching Braun commit close to an error per 3 game series next season.

 

Crede may not be the best third baseman available when looking at his offensive stats, but he might be the best fit for the Brewers - he can probably be acquired for peanuts (or a combination of players that = peanuts), he doesn't have 30+million in guaranteed money left on his deal for Milwaukee to worry about paying, and this team frankly doesn't need much help offensively if you factor in what a healthy Weeks and Hall in a bounceback year would add.

 

I maintain that improving the team's defense and bullpen should be the main priorities, and if healthy, Crede would definitely help the team defense.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Crede would be a free agent after 08,

 

Gross and Dillon may provide better overall offensive stats than Crede could, but then you still have Braun at third, and two butchers playing in left field everyday (remember Dillon in the OF in Atlanta, or Gross routinely misjudging balls?) - not exactly addressing a need for defensive improvement.

[splitterpfj]

There's no doubt that Crede would provide a defensive upgrade, and he does have some power, but this is a low OBP, swing hard 6 hitter - this team already has that.

[patrickgpe]

it seems to be based on the reports out of nashville, that doug is determined to get his mits on a 3rd baseman, which i thought initially was not the plan. At first it was if we can't get a left fielder, maybe we could get a 3rd baseman. Now that seems to be out of the window. Of course we really don't know everything doug is thinking, and who he is talking to and about. The reports back home see to indicate the former though.

[trwi7]

Oh dear after all the talk of Rolen if we get Crede I'm going to cry.

[sbrylski]

If we are giving up on OBP, then give me Feliz.

 

1) Defensive value is through the roof. Seriously, through the roof.

2) No health concerns.

3) Don't have to give up anything but money to get him.

 

Feliz has consistently been at .250 / .290 / .420 / .710 the past four seasons. At best we'd get a .320 / .460 / .780 out of Crede, likely a bit lower and with a possibility of missed time.

 

But I have to imagine Melvin would want the team connected to as many options as possible, even if he doesn't really want them, to gain leverage in trade talks. I doubt any of these players are coming to Milwaukee. We have the trade pieces and are willing to use them to net someone better.