3B options, Latest: Ensberg discussion

[SoCalBrewfan]

It's pretty clear at this point that the Brewers are fully aware of how effective Braun was with the glove. They've talked about 3b of every shape and size, and typically looked at very good defensive players (Rolen, Crede, Tejada, maybe Feliz depending on what you believe). They're looking to upgrade the defense, and in a big way...Braun to Rolen would be a huge swing defensively, and Rolen vs. Menchkins might be close to a wash offensively. That pleases me, actually, as it suggests that they've identified the one biggest weakness of last year's team and are moving aggressively to fix it.

 

They just aren't willing to go on the radio and say, well, we're not looking for outfielders any more because we're going to move Ryan Braun to the outfield because he's so awful a defender that the pitchers were ready to push him off the team plane. Which is also a good thing, IMO...just in case they need to backpedal.

 

I still don't understand why they won't move Hall, but it may be that they feel there are more quality options at 3b than there are at CF right now.

[TooLiveBrew]

I still don't understand why they won't move Hall, but it may be that they feel there are more quality options at 3b than there are at CF right now.

 

Exactly - Hall's value, even just evaluating him w/o any other choices, is much higher in CF.

[DrWood]

have I mentioned in this thread yet that Ensberg had a bad shoulder injury and hasn't been the same since?

 

kindest regards,

Doc Alzheimer

[theavrock]

Yes you have. So you are saying he isn't a MVP canidate who also plays amazing defense anymore???? I would have never seen that coming. I am willing to take a flyer on him because of all the other reasons that have actually been stated in the thread (I'm sure you read them though). He still plays good defense. He still gets on base at a good clip relative to his BA. He still posts a good OPS. He still doesn't K that much. Those are all reasons we should take a look at him if his shoulder looks good.

[Big Reed]

I have no problem with the brewers signing Ensberg. i have a big problem with the brewers signing ensberg with the intention of starting him. I think he'd make a great replacement for graffy. he could probably back up fielder at first as well.

[RockCoCougars]

If the big priority is to get a guy that takes walks and has a high OBP, then why not just take a chance and see if Bonds will sign a one year deal to play left? Obviously, he's terrible on defense, but why are people assuming that Braun will be a strong left fielder? Bonds could have a higher OBP than Ensberg in his sleep, and would provide a much needed left handed bat.

 

That said, I'm not a big fan of signing Bonds- but if the alternative is Morgan Ensberg, I would take the lesser of two evils.

[Baldkin]

Are you saying Bonds is the lesser of two evils when compared to Ensberg?

 

Wow. Just... wow.

 

No way the city, or the fans would accept the guy who did roids and broke Aaron's hallowed record in Milwaukee.

 

Besides, he should be in jail by July.

[theavrock]

Thats not the priority. The priority is to number one improve the defense. That involves moving Braun. He was historically awful. So we should limit our discussions to third baseman. Now if we are trying to improve defense we might as well look at adding plus defenders to the infield. In addition to that one of our other weaknesses was our OBP. So what we should be looking for is a third basemen that is a plus defender and gets on base. I would love that to be Rolen but it may or may not happen. Ensberg would cost nothing except a contract to pick up and serves to help with all of our needs. Am I saying Ensberg is the best third basemen in the league? Obviously, no but he would fit nicely onto our team.

[Oldcity]

Thought I'd add it in here rather than starting a new thread. Now that Haren's been dealt you have to think Oakland will have something of a firesale. How do people feel about Eric Chavez?

 

I'm not so sure how attractive he should be right now. He struggled this year through an injury-riddled season. He was solid in '06, but '05 was another shaky year. He really hasn't had a great season since 2004, and obviously he won't approach those numbers again in his career.

 

To me though, his biggest value would be defense. Thing is I've heard grumblings that his defense has slipped a bit, so I'm really not sure how much he's even worth at this point.

[DrWood]

Thats not the priority. The priority is to number one improve the defense.

 

gosh, that's a novel idea. I kinda thought the priority was to improve the team, now and into the future, and it doesn't really matter if that means pitching or defense or offense gets improved.

[theavrock]

Thats not what I was refering to. I was refering to the post above me that said if the priority was to add an OBP guy we should add Bonds. If there is one thing we could do to improve the team as a whole it would be to improve the defense. We lost the division to the Cubs last year because our defense was bad and Braun was worst of all. It affected our starting pitching and wore down our bullpen. If you want to disagree, go ahead but I would fail to see anything that states the contrary.

[RockCoCougars]

OK, if we are talking defense, I'll agree that anyone would be better than Braun was at third last year, so Ensberg would be a big upgrade. As I said earlier though, it would be a leap to assume that Braun would be adequate defensively in left. Yes, third is probably a more "important" defensive position than left, but I'm not sure how much. I don't know if I would be comfortable with both Hall and Braun in the same outfield.

 

So in conclusion...

 

Ensberg >>>>> Braun

Braun <<<< Jenkins

 

Seems like almost a wash to me, and I'd be inclined to give Braun another chance at third unless they can get Rolen. The potential problems in moving him (drop in offense a la Hall, ego bruise) outweigh the benefits of picking up a guy like Ensberg. Honestly, Braun can only improve at this point, hopefully he is putting in the time. Lots of guys have problems with defense when they first come up, and develop into adequate fielders. Ensberg seems like a Sal Bando signing circa 1996.

[trwi7]

I think you're really overvaluing how important defense in LF is and undervaluing how important it is at 3B. As for the offensive dropoff. Yeah it probably will happen but it won't happen because of a position switch. I could just as easily say if he stays at 3B his offense is going to dropoff because he spent so much time in the offseason concentrating on his defense.

[Big Reed]

I like chavez as well. i noticed he bats left handed too. That seems to fit the description that melvin said he was looking for.

[recte44]

Well, they made a play for Tejada....why not Chavez?

[RockCoCougars]

I'd be interested in Chavez, provided the A's take some salary (Capuano?) back along with some prospects. Problem is, I can't see them doing anything without Hall in the deal, and I really don't want to go there unless a CF is acquired, as it would just create another hole. Maybe they could sign Lofton or Cameron to fill that spot though. Chavez scares me slightly because is offense is trending down the past few years and he seems to be falling apart a little bit physically. That said, he is a stud defender and hits lefty - two huge pluses.

[molitor fan]

I have read that Chavez is scheduled to have three seperate operations this off-season. That would make me very wary of grabbing him at all. In fact, rolen appears to be much less of a risk, and that is saying something

[Teatoe993]

This is being discussed in the Lofton thread among others, but I think it fits in this one the most. I don't get much into baseball discussions here because I don't have the knowledge that the constant posters have. But I question this: If Melvin fails to find a defensive upgrade at 3B this offseason through a trade or signing, what is the big deal with moving Hall to 3B? I don't see what makes Hall so untouchable that he can't be asked to change positions again. He didn't exactly earn his keep after signing the big contract last year. Hall wasn't terrible, but he definitely fell short of expectations offensively. I don't see how he could have any right to oppose a move to 3B. It's not like he's losing his place in the starting lineup. Braun absolutely raked last year and has stated that he's more than willing to play anywhere if it helps the team. I don't see why Hall would have a problem. It's not like he hasn't played 3B before. I also get the impression from people that Melvin would never admit he made a mistake by moving Hall to CF. It never was a mistake. It's just that Hall would be of more value to the team at 3B at the moment (If we fail to find an upgrade). Would Melvin really be that stubborn by not making a move like that just to protect his pride, despite the fact that it's probably hurting the team defensively? I don't think he would. I'm just wondering if I am the only one who feels this way. I'm curious what others think.

[Oldcity]

I suppose the mistake may very well have been not moving Braun to the outfield a year or two ago when most scouts figured he'd never stick at third. Then Braun could have broken camp with the big league team in '07 and Hall could have been at third. They probably would have made the playoffs under that scenario actually.

 

If the Brewers can't get anyone for third this year, I would definitely support putting Hall there.

[Ennder]

They have been saying that it isn't fair to Hall to keep moving him around. Whether that means Hall specifically asked the team not to move him again or Melvin just wants to stick to his guns I don't know. It makes sense to move him to 3B instead of Braun but it doesn't seem like a very likely option.

[erbacaine04]

Hall was never much of a 3rd base option because his Defense was below average at 3rd base as well...not to the extent of Braun's but Tell me if Hall was such a great 3rd basemen... why did the Brewers go after Corey Koskie... and started him OVER Bill Hall at third base in 2006.... Hall platooned with Koskie bit Koskie was Defensive Whiz so they left him there and played Hall all over the Infield and even some in Left and Center in 2006 trying to get him ABs that first month or so.... JJ Hardy went down and he then became the Short Stop.

 

The Problem is Bill hall was NOT a good defensive 3rd basemen... he got better yes... but what makes you think Braun cant get better.

 

Right now the team has one minor leaguer that will be an option if Braun cant improve... and thats Taylor Green and he is still at least 2 years away which makes a Rolen, Chavez, Freel, Blalock trade seem pretty smart...

 

in 2010

Weeks-2b

Hardy- SS(he might be gone and Escobar in his place)

Braun- RF

Fielder- 1st

Hart- CF

Laporta- LF

Green- 3rd

Pallasimo- C

[TooLiveBrew]

Pallasimo- C

 

WOAAHH - it's Palmisano. And he's got some fine minor-league numbers. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

The Problem is Bill hall was NOT a good defensive 3rd basemen... he got better yes... but what makes you think Braun cant get better.

This issue with Braun never was, has been, or will be about whether or not he can 'get better.' It's that if Hall at 3B were to 'get better,' then you have an average-fielding 3B. For Braun to 'get better,' you go from historically & atrociously bad to --> horribly, awfully bad. 2008 is not the year to hope for that from Braun.

[Klements Bratwurst]

It looks like the Rangers aren't thinking about Gwynn for centerfield according to this report:

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

 

If the Rangers, sign one of the other names, we will match up less with them for obtaining Blalock if he is still on Doug's radar. I suppose though they could take some of our pitching as mentioned in the other threads.