...and Gord Ash as Sancho Panza

[Robideaux]

Tbadder,

For what it's worth, there is nothing that says you need to win 90 games to make the playoffs. In the last 3 years alone 7 teams have made the playoffs with fewer than 90 wins. Once you get in all bets are off. If you recall, the Cards won it all with fewer wins than the Brewers had last year.

 

I agree that I don't want Doug to rest on his laurels--that the team isn't heads and shoulders better than the rest of the division, but if we pick up a reliever or two & maybe Rolen it's entirely possible that the Brewers could win 85+ games next season. The future is bright; we just had our first winning season in eons, 'tis the season to be optimistic.

[Tbadder]

Backup: I can't argue with your analysis, you might be right, but I just disagree. I'm notr a hater of my own team. I love them and really wouldn't trade any everyday line up for ours. But this is the Milwaukee Brewers. This is the land of miniscule resources, and an ever growing expensive free agent market. That market is only going to be selectively available to the Brewers. I call that realism.

 

Yes, I personally believe those will be by and large be the best numbers they'll obtain. Sure they'll be some improvement; sure they'll be some regression, and sure they'll be some injuries. But the Brewers are what they are. You call it doom and gloom, I might counter with accusations of rose colored glasses. Neither of those statements are valid.

 

Hell, I hope I'm the most wrong person here. I hope Fielder goes yard 70 times and Hart turns into a complete stud, etc. etc. Good luck to us. But I can't see getting by on said hope. I'd rather be as pro-active as is reasonable. Peace.

[Thurston Fluff]

The difference between the Florida marlins and brewers is that after the brewers sign all those great free agents, and then win the championship, and then have a fire sale and give everybody away, the brewers fans, just like packers fans would still come out in droves to watch the brewers. I don't really think the brewers would suffer the severe attendance drops that the marlins did. it would appear to me that the twins have also followed the marlins' plan rather than the Billy beane plan. After the Twins have been successful, they unload all of their good players and then regroup

 

Could the reaosn why the Marlins fan base doesn't follow them have anything to do with their fire sale approach? The years the Marlins won, after failing to so much as win a division title I might add, the fans didn't even have time to know the players to become interested in the team before they were rebuilding agian. In many cases, epsecially in ones were the team comes out of no where like the Marlins, the financial windfall of a WS is bigger the year after. That doesn't happen when they get rid of all the players and give the fans crap for the next couple years. It's hard to build a fan base when every time the team wins the fans know they will get rid of them and rebuild. It's also a gamble that seems not to have worked very well for the Marlins this time around. They've traded everyone 2 years ago and haven't sniffed .500 since then. They don't really look to be that much better next year and now they are looking to trade their best players agian. Despite the WS titles the fans didn't get much chance to enjoy the ride. What good is that?

[Raw Biz]

I have to agree with regards to the Marlins. Winning a World Series and then trading away your entire team for prospects is essentially forfeiting the next couple seasons. It's really hard to get behind a team the next year when you know they won't be competitive. But if you are constantly making the playoffs, you know there is a chance that the next season could be yours. Therefore, I think more people would be inclined to come out and follow the team.

 

5 straight seasons of playoffs > 1 World Series and firesale (in terms of attendance numbers and revenue I believe)

 

However, 2 World Series in 10 years and firesales > 7 out of 10 years playoffs (speaking strictly as a fan)

 

I think the key for the Marlins is they definitely got lucky which is basically what happens every year to teams in the playoffs. So again, the whole point is making the playoffs and that being said, I'd follow the Oakland model.

[Thurston Fluff]

5 straight seasons of playoffs > 1 World Series and firesale (in terms of attendance numbers and revenue I believe)

 

However, 2 World Series in 10 years and firesales > 7 out of 10 years playoffs (speaking strictly as a fan)

 

I think the key for the Marlins is they definitely got lucky which is basically what happens every year to teams in the playoffs. So again, the whole point is making the playoffs and that being said, I'd follow the Oakland model.

 

Totally agree winning two world series the only two times you've been to the playoffs is better than going 10 times and not wining once. Relying on winning every time you get to the playoffs to counter the inevitable tear down after the playoffs as a strategy to building a fanbase is not a sound approach IMHO.

 

I'm notr a hater of my own team. I love them and really wouldn't trade any everyday line up for ours.

 

It was not my intent to imply you didn't love the Brewers. I'm sorry if that's the way it came out. I have no doubt you care as much about them as I do.

 

You call it doom and gloom, I might counter with accusations of rose colored glasses. Neither of those statements are valid.

 

I'm fully aware that I do view the Brewers in the best possible light and don't want to imply those who don't are somehow inferior. I think all of us, regardless of which way we roll, have differant mechanisms in place that has helped us through the long dark years as a Brewer fan. I tend to look for positives some tend to view the negatives. Neither is better or more correct. Together it does make for good debate during these lulls in actual action though.

[Big Reed]

yes, i would agree that 5 straight times in the playoffs is probably better than what the marlins did. However, there are only two teams in MLB in the past 30 years that made the play-offs 5 straight times: the braves and yankees. and the liklihood the brewers would make the playoffs 5 straight times is rather remote. After the brewers make the play-offs, certain members of the team are going to want to be paid their $10-20 million a year or they are going to leave. When guys like guillen can get a 3 year deal worth $36 million, just think of what gallardo, Fielder, braun and hart are going to be asking for. Fielder is going to be very expensive to retain. A good guage of what Fielder will be asking for will become obvious when Howard signs his contract. fielder is not going to ask for anything less than Howard.

 

I can understand from a brewers' fan point of view, you would hope the brewers would never copy the Marlins' plan to success. but the Marlins do have 2 world series rings and the brewers haven't even made the play-offs in the past 25 years. I'd be willing to sacrifice the future if it meant getting into the play-offs at least once every 10 years.

 

To me, that magic number is 90 games. because by winning 90 games, if you don't win your division, you are almost a shoe-in for a wild card. if your goal is only 85-86 games, you may win your division in a bad year, but you will never win a wild card. it's easy to win 85 games. Winning 90+ means you have a play-off contender! i don't believe an 85 win season will be the norm for central division leaders in the future.

[Thurston Fluff]

Five straight is an example. I think Oakland and Minnesota are two teams that make the playoffs on a regular basis and usually, at the very least, make a run at post season play. That, to me anyway, is a better way to grow a fan base than constantly jumping from horrid to decent enough to make a playoff run once every 5 years or so. I agree a 90 win plateu is a decent way to quatifiy a teams success.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"GENO!

 

As always a great read -- While the volume of cynicism never fails to disappoint, I was a little disappointed by the flavor of it.

 

From one cynic to another...What makes me cynical about this whole thing, is that I think that there might be reasons why CoCo did not want to return to Milwaukee, and I think if we had a different GM/manager -- 4/42 may have worked, or a last-chance to beat 4/46 would have been extended."

 

First of all, thanks FTJ. Always a pleasure to read you, too.

 

Psst! Since no one else is reading, I'll let you in on a secret. My support has always been for sale. OK, so I was disappointed DM couldn't git 'er done (sorry, i was in Texas last week) with CoCoCo. But if he would have turned around and spent that $12,000,000 or so per year on the bullpen, I would have been satisfied, and allowed him to wiggle off my hook.

 

But as a card-carrying cynic, I gather some hatred for a Brewer official when they toss out big money offers to players, they don't accept them, and then the Brewers just pocket that cash, as if that willingness to spend big money never happened.

 

Here's the thing, though: I seems Doug still MAY spend that $12,000,000 per year, if we pee all that money away on the infirm Scott Rolen.

 

Would THAT satisfy me, and salve my wounds after losing CoCoCo? Yeah, kinda.

 

But ideally, the Brewers can still win the Central in 2008, without Scott Rolen, IF...

 

- First we non-tender Mench (That frees up around $3-4 million right there).

 

- Then we trade away Turnbow for a minor leaguer, just to get rid of his contract (That's another $3.2 million, and now we're up to nearly $7 million with just those 2 lumps off the payroll).

 

- Wise? Non-tendered, saving another $1.1 million.

 

- Jenkins is gone, so that's another $7.3 million, for $15-$16,000,000 to maneuver with.

 

Now we start taking back salary:

 

- Trade a nugget or 2 for/sign another reliever to team with Riske for say, $4-5 million a year, like a Brian Fuentes or a Jamie Walker. Riske and his tag team partner as closers-by-committee would earn nearly $10,000,000 right there.

 

- Then you trade for an Overbay-circa-2004-type for LF, to bat 3rd, and absorb payroll for whatever is left (or less) to make it happen. Much easier said than done, of course, but we have some pitching to offer, salary room, and nuggets. Who fits this description? Maybe we can work a deal to acquire a Carl Crawford (my top man-crush of winter '07/'08), or Kansas City's Mark Teahen, Seattle's Jose Guillen (oops, missed opportunity there), or Houston's Luke Scott, or we could check if the Twins are hell-bent on selling off everyone, and ask about Michael Cuddyer. Even if we flip Braun to LF, you've got to think a Hank Blalock is even available (although not my choice to bat 3rd).

 

But just offering that big contract, then reeling back in that salary slot and not spending it, which is what the Brewers HAD always been doing, bugs the hell out of me. I hope it doesn't happen.

 

"I have been thinking a lot about this. There is a lot of talk about how good the Brewers have been at drafting, and how the Brewers have a Rumpelstiltskinesque ability to spin draft picks into gold, however we haven't been very good overall with pitching or catching, and I think we are reaching our limit of "guys with questionable defense that can hit", therefore I am less enthused by draft picks than most."

 

Me too.

 

The draft picks are a necessity toward keeping the cycle perpetuated, but it seemed clear to me that Doug's primary intention of acquiring Linebrink was that he was going to be a Type A. Did DM even bother to contact his agent? That sent the wrong signal. Now we'll get some 2nd rounders who are question marks. *sigh*

 

"Could the reaosn why the Marlins fan base doesn't follow them have anything to do with their fire sale approach?"

 

I doubt it, backup.

 

Just as Pittsburgh is not a basketball town, and Los Angeles is not a football town, Miami with all its rainouts in an outdoor stadium, is apparently just not a baseball town. Look at the embraceable young talent their fans had to root on, if only they showed up: Miguel Cabrera, Josh Beckett, Brad Penny, Dontrelle Willis, Mike Lowell, AJ Burnett... But their business plan was to develop nuggets, bring them to market, and once they became contractually able to leave, they were sent a-packin' to replenish the system. Only they faced this market size-influenced inevitably by mixing in some stars to push them over the top, and it worked....twice. But the fans still never show up. All that talent is wasted on those 40,000 empty seats every night.

[Big Reed]

I think a lot of fans here are misinformed about the Florida Marlins and their fan base. Florida Marlins fans were never turned off because their team unloaded the truck and gave away all their star players. The real fact is the Florida marlins have never had a fan base, period. before the marlins acquired big name players like Sheffield, bonilla, and piazza, they were a fairly successful / mediocre team, yet nobody ever came to watch them. Their owner, desparate for fan support, went out and brought in name players like Sheffield, and Bonilla to try to boost the attendance. his main thoughts were to increase attendance, not to try to win it all in one year. he found out that these name talents still did not increase attendance. On both of their play-off runs, attendance still sagged with empty seats for play-off games. if the brewers were in a play-off race or the play-offs, the stadium and parking lot would both be overflowing with fans. This will never be the case in Miami, no matter how good or bad the team is. Yes, the marlins did win two world series, but winning and name players never did excite the fans in Miami. tampa bay tried to do the same thing thinking that name players would boost attendance. that's why Tampa signed Wade Boggs and Fred Mc Griff and that old pitcher.. if Pete Rose wasn't banned from baseball, they would have signed him too. Tampa's new stadium has a seating capacity of 35,000. and that's still too big.

 

And as for giving his players away, Miami didn't just give their players away. they did receive some quality players in return. They traded Josh beckett and mike Lowell for shortstop Hanley Ramerez and 3 pitching prospects. they traded Sheffield and bobby bonilla for Piazza and todd Zielle. They traded piazza for preston Wilson. They traded renteria to the Cardinals for braden looper and prospects. they traded Delgado for 1b mike Jacobs and prospects. Pudge was a 1 year rental player. They traded Charles johnson and preston wilson for mike hampton and juan Pierre. they gave away Pierre for prospects to the Cubs. They traded penney for La Duca, mota and Encarcion. the majority of these trades were not made immediately following their world series victory. they were made after the realization that neither a world series victory nor big name star players would attract fans to watch marlins games.

 

it should be noted that the Detroit tigers' GM was the guy who built the marlins. And now he has acquired two more players in Willis and Cabrera that he acquired originally for the marlins. he traded Matt Clement and Alfonseca to the Cubs for Willis.

 

I really like the idea of trading prospects to try to win it all now. in Detroit, guys like Pudge, Renteria, Todd Jones, Sean Casey and Ordonez don't have very many years left. and if you have a smart GM, he should be able to find a miller and maybin in the first two rounds of each draft. Maybin and Miller were both first round picks who slid in the draft because of questions surrounding their signability. Smart GMs find top prospects in the second round as well as in the first. Gallardo, Hardy and tony gwynn were all second round picks. if the brewers started trading more of their prospects for veterans in an effort to try to win now, i have confidence that melvin would be able to draft more top prospects to replace the ones traded away.

[DuWayne Steurer]

if the brewers started trading more of their prospects for veterans in an effort to try to win now, i have confidence that melvin would be able to draft more top prospects to replace the ones traded away.

 

With the surplus of top round picks the Brewers will be getting this year, that's a distinct possibility. Another reason why it's not a bad thing to let guys like Linebrink walk away.

 

People deride those who find value in getting 2 picks for a free agent who walks away, yet that guy that walked away was acquired by trading a top prospect away. Granted that the move didn't work out as expected, but at the very least, those who get on Melvin's case for not using his prospects as trading chips to bolster a team for a playoff run can't say that he didn't at least roll the dice.

 

To have the ability to keep a continuous flow of pre-free agency players like Hart, Hardy, Weeks, Fielder, Parra, Yo, and so on coming to the club, as well as having guys like Inman and the like to trade away for mercenaries like Linebrink, those type A free agent draft picks are very important.

[Fatter than Joey]

- First we non-tender Mench (That frees up around $3-4 million right there).

- Then we trade away Turnbow for a minor leaguer, just to get rid of his contract (That's another $3.2 million, and now we're up to nearly $7 million with just those 2 lumps off the payroll).

- Wise? Non-tendered, saving another $1.1 million.

- Jenkins is gone, so that's another $7.3 million, for $15-$16,000,000 to maneuver with.

 

I am on board with all of these moves -- Don't forget though we are on the hook for Willy Mota's $3.2M

 

Even if we flip Braun to LF, you've got to think a Hank Blalock is even available (although not my choice to bat 3rd).

 

Of course you know Teahan is gone -- My guess is that DM is targeting Joe Crede to play 3b.

 

But just offering that big contract, then reeling back in that salary slot and not spending it, which is what the Brewers HAD always been doing, bugs the hell out of me. I hope it doesn't happen.

 

Agreed....

 

The draft picks are a necessity toward keeping the cycle perpetuated, but it seemed clear to me that Doug's primary intention of acquiring Linebrink was that he was going to be a Type A. Did DM even bother to contact his agent? That sent the wrong signal. Now we'll get some 2nd rounders who are question marks. *sigh*

 

Yep -- No one questions the need for draft picks -- however I think the Brewers have to start getting better results drafting pitchers and catchers. If you look at the blue-ribbon prizes from the Brewers farm, we are very very top-heavy on dudes that can mash and are questionable defensive players, so I get less enthused about drafting the next Matt LaPorta or pitcher that flames out/smokes the reefer.

 

For the record -- Linebrink was a type A -- where the Brewers got "screwed" was that both Linebrink and CoCo were signed by teams that had sucky 2007's, so their 1st rd. pick is draft protected -- It is a definite risk though, GMs probably should assume that they are going to get a 2nd+Sand than a 1st+Sand.

[Invader3K]

Big Reed brings up a great point about the Marlins...their fire sales weren't really that, to quite the extent they've been made out to be.

 

Really, that team is just doomed until they either get a stadium closer to the downtown Miami area, or relocate completely. Until then, they're basically like the Expos of the past decade.

[Thurston Fluff]

Just as Pittsburgh is not a basketball town, and Los Angeles is not a football town, Miami with all its rainouts in an outdoor stadium, is apparently just not a baseball town. Look at the embraceable young talent their fans had to root on, if only they showed up: Miguel Cabrera, Josh Beckett, Brad Penny, Dontrelle Willis, Mike Lowell, AJ Burnett... But their business plan was to develop nuggets, bring them to market, and once they became contractually able to leave, they were sent a-packin' to replenish the system. Only they faced this market size-influenced inevitably by mixing in some stars to push them over the top, and it worked....twice. But the fans still never show up. All that talent is wasted on those 40,000 empty seats every night.

 

Lets look at the attendance firgures shall we? In 97 they won the WS after bringing in Shef and company the attendance that year was 2,364,387. This is not a great fiure but considering how young the franchise was and the crappy stadium the played in it wasn't horrid by any stretch of the imagination. Then they had the infamous fire sale for prospects. Next year should have seen a boost in attendance but the actual attendance dropped to 1,750,395. It can hardly be argued that there is not a direct coorelation to the breaking up of the team and the subsequent drop in attendance in what should have been an increase.

They agian won the WS in 03 and they had 1,303,215 and kept that core together after that year. 04 saw the boost to 1,723,105 and in 05 went to 1,823,388. Not back to the original 97 level but a two year trend upward. Then they traded for young players again. Guess what happened in 06? If you guessed a huge drop off in attendance you win the prize. 1,165,120 was the final total in 06 despite a surprisingly strong team for a good portion of the year. In essense they sabatoged their own efforts to continue to foster the growth in their fan base by not learning from their past mistakes in that area.

That seems to be a pattern. If you note that the numbers never got back to the original 97 number that should be some sort of indication that the franchise did something to turn off a portion of the fan base they had. Then did the same thing again to compound the problem.

 

Those changes cannot be attributed to it not being a baseball town or the fans are transplants and root for another team ect. If they never had fans in excess of 2 million it could be argued it's not a baseball town or the stadium sucks ect. The simple fact is Florida turned off roughly 1/2 million ticket paying fans by their mode of operation.

 

Now I won't argue that Florida could have done things differantly because the revenue may not have been enough to retain their team. What I will argue is it is not the way a team with a better revenue stream, strong attendance, and good stadium should run their franchise. Not if they don't wish to turn off 25% of their fans anyway.

[Big Reed]

The marlins don't have a crappy stadium. they played in joe robbie Stadium which when built was thought of as a great stadium. it is kind of large. You forgot to mention that the guy from blockbusters sold the team. That was a primary reason so many of the expensive veterans were traded for prospects. I think the sale of the team and new ownership were what really drove the fans away.

[trwi7]

The marlins don't have a crappy stadium.

 

Yeah they do. It's not made for baseball and it's out in the middle of nowhere.

[Thurston Fluff]

Don't they share a stadium with the Dolphins? It's not really a baseball park. If it was a decent stadium I don't know why they'd be asking for a new one. As for the sale of the team. Hizinga (butchered the name I'm sure) was not well liked after he broke up the 97 team. SO I'm not sure what drop off there would ahve been for a new owner. Especially one who already onwed another team. So I don't think you can blame ownership. Not to mention I think it's a hard sell to convince anyone the owner has much to do with ticket sales vs. the teams performance on the field or it's organizational philosophy toward building a team. Even the sale of the Brewers from a hated owner in Wendy to Marl A. didn't boost attendance anywhere near what fielding the competetive team promised prior to his ownership had. If you have some sort of attendance figures showing a coorelation between ownership and team attendance anywhere in the league I'd love to see it.

[Big Reed]

a lot of stadiums are in the middle of nowhere. not every stadium can be built next to the milwaukee beer hops smell or whatever that smell is. When Joe robbie was built, most people thought it was a great idea to share a stadium for football and baseball. Today, baseball owners want their own park. part of the problem is that football stadums are designed to hold 60-70 ,000 , and baseball owners would rather have stadiums hold 40-45,000.

 

The tropicanna Field (Not sure why a domed stadium was ever call a field) is also located in the middle of nowhere. We lived in homestead Fl for a year and tampa for 4 years.. trust me, it's a lot safer in miami having something in the middle of nowhere. At least, unlike the bradley center, your cars don't get broken into at night.

 

I thought it would have been better financially for miller park to be constructed to host football and basketball games. They could host a college football bowl game - the Cheese bowl! Hosting basketball games would have required a dome. it's too bad they didn't design the roof to be like a hard top on a car convertable.

 

back-up catchers- i'll have to dig some more to find out about the sale of the marlins and how it related to attendance. I recall hyzinga demanded a new stadium and the Florida voters voted it down. I'm not sure long he had the team up for sale. i thought, unlike the brewers that it was a very quick sale. I als o not certain if hyzinager was the guy who traded off their veterans to make the team ready for a sale, or if the new owner did as part of a house cleaning.

 

I had a totally different thought , but it's actually related to this thread. I recall in the days of Sal bando and Dea n taylor, that they were given a low budget and then told to construct a team with that low budget. bando has said a couple of times that he was forced to draft certain players because the brewers could not afford to give signing bonuses to the players he really wanted to draft. Dean taylor had a pretty good eye for young talent. I am led to wonder how bando and taylor would have done if they had a payroll of $70-75 million and could afford to draft anybody and sign them? Would they have gone after hammonds in the first place? or would they have targeted better free agents? Would they have built a winner sooner? Dalton and bando drafted Nomar garciaparra in the 5th round in 1991, but didn't have the financial resources to sign him away from attending georgia tech. We think of melvin as being a great GM. Would he have been so great with a $30 million budget and forced to draft players with minimal signing bonuses? te same applies to Dean taylor. Would he have been a better GM with more money to spend?

 

What would Brian Cashman do if he had only $100 million to spend each year? Would he still be able to develop a competitive team?

[TooLiveBrew]

When Joe robbie was built, most people thought it was a great idea to share a stadium for football and baseball. Today, baseball owners want their own park. part of the problem is that football stadums are designed to hold 60-70,000...

 

And football stadiums aren't layed out correctly for baseball, either. Look at the lack of seating off RF in the Metrodome. Oakland's stadium has copius amounts of foul territory instead of prime 1B/3B seating. It's not as much about capacity as it is the layouts, imho. The Marlins' stadium is not a good baseball park. It's one reason the Marlins keep such a low overhead.

[Brian the Automator]

I thought it would have been better financially for miller park to be constructed to host football and basketball games. They could host a college football bowl game - the Cheese bowl! Hosting basketball games would have required a dome. it's too bad they didn't design the roof to be like a hard top on a car convertable.

It would have been better financially to construct miller park to host one bowl game in a cold-weather city where no one would want to come, and basketball games?

 

[endaround]

The Marlins don't draw because if they did ownership would have a harder sale to get Miami to pay them $500 million

[Big Reed]

brian - recall that in the past, I wanted Miller park to be a domed stadium.

 

With that said, Detroit has a college football Bowl Game- the motor city bowl where Purdue will trounce Central Mich this year! Miller park could have it's own college bowl game pitting the 5th best MAC team against the 8th best big ten team. I'm positive those Iowa , Northwestern, Western michigan, and North Dakota St fans would come and pack the stadium snow or no snow. It seems a shame they were bowl elligible this year but not invited to any bowl game.

 

or have the Arena Bowl Super bowl or whatever it's called. packer fans would fill the stadium.

 

or have an outdoor NFL combine to get a true guage of what those college football players can do in less than ideal conditions.

 

As for basketball, tropicanna field was used to host the NCAA tournament and drew fantastic crowds to watch NCAA tournament games played on a basketball court placed on top of their field. It drew more fans for 4 games than a month of rays games did. if miller park is going to be the host for that Bowling tournament, surely, it could host an NCAA regionals tournament or a Big ten basketball tournament. Or maybe a preseason NIT basketball tourney. or it could host a UW - marquette basketball game.

 

isn't the new philosophy of retractable stadium roofs to be able to build them so that the ball parks could be used for other indoor events? I laughed when i saw the plan for the new twins stadium to be open air rather than having any type of a roof. baseball purists may love it, but let's face it, there are a lot more bowling and curling fans who would have really loved an updated domed stadium. They don't play NHL games in outside parks, do they? the Great Mall of America has a roof over it and air conditioning. it's a pretty popular place. Dome stadiums are not evil.

 

rather than replacing miller park's retractable roof, my latest idea would be to put a plastic coating over it in the Winter. Install some heat. put in a floor, bring in the circus, globetrotters, church revivals, Super bowl bash, new years eve dance party or convert the stadium into an indoor water park. Hotels have indoor water parks, and miller stadium already has a huge water slide. I ca n see it as a viable alternative. as penny pinching as Selig was, i can't believe he didn't push harder for a domed stadium as being a better financial solution for Milwaukee. the mitchel park domes are beautiful. miller park could have been a glass stadium. Where is Frank Llyod Wright when you need him?

 

the bottom line is that Miller park could be used for other venues other than baseball. and the revenues generated from these venues could somehow be directed to improving the brewers. i realize the one small detail is that the park is not owned by the brewers. but revenue is still revenue and the brewers would benefit from increased activities at miller park.

[Brian the Automator]

brian - recall that in the past, I wanted Miller park to be a domed stadium.

 

With that said, Detroit has a college football Bowl Game- the motor city bowl where Purdue will trounce Central Mich this year! Miller park could have it's own college bowl game pitting the 5th best MAC team against the 8th best big ten team. I'm positive those Iowa , Northwestern, Western michigan, and North Dakota St fans would come and pack the stadium snow or no snow. It seems a shame they were bowl elligible this year but not invited to any bowl game.

 

or have the Arena Bowl Super bowl or whatever it's called. packer fans would fill the stadium.

 

or have an outdoor NFL combine to get a true guage of what those college football players can do in less than ideal conditions.

 

As for basketball, tropicanna field was used to host the NCAA tournament and drew fantastic crowds to watch NCAA tournament games played on a basketball court placed on top of their field. It drew more fans for 4 games than a month of rays games did. if miller park is going to be the host for that Bowling tournament, surely, it could host an NCAA regionals tournament or a Big ten basketball tournament. Or maybe a preseason NIT basketball tourney. or it could host a UW - marquette basketball game.

 

isn't the new philosophy of retractable stadium roofs to be able to build them so that the ball parks could be used for other indoor events? I laughed when i saw the plan for the new twins stadium to be open air rather than having any type of a roof. baseball purists may love it, but let's face it, there are a lot more bowling and curling fans who would have really loved an updated domed stadium. They don't play NHL games in outside parks, do they? the Great Mall of America has a roof over it and air conditioning. it's a pretty popular place. Dome stadiums are not evil.

 

rather than replacing miller park's retractable roof, my latest idea would be to put a plastic coating over it in the Winter. Install some heat. put in a floor, bring in the circus, globetrotters, church revivals, Super bowl bash, new years eve dance party or convert the stadium into an indoor water park. Hotels have indoor water parks, and miller stadium already has a huge water slide. I ca n see it as a viable alternative. as penny pinching as Selig was, i can't believe he didn't push harder for a domed stadium as being a better financial solution for Milwaukee. the mitchel park domes are beautiful. miller park could have been a glass stadium. Where is Frank Llyod Wright when you need him?

 

the bottom line is that Miller park could be used for other venues other than baseball. and the revenues generated from these venues could somehow be directed to improving the brewers. i realize the one small detail is that the park is not owned by the brewers. but revenue is still revenue and the brewers would benefit from increased activities at miller park.

These piddly little one-off events are not going to make enough money to warrant a multi-purpose stadium.

 

[Big Reed]

perhaps not, but a domed stadium would have been a lot cheaper than our curent one.

 

I've seen the schedules for some of the biggger arenas, and they always have something going on besides just their associated sporting events. bring in the Celtic Woman and barry manilo. Set up stage for American Idol. Rodeo. monster truck bash. car shows. pass punt and kick contests. haunted baseball park tours. easter egg hunts. an ice skating rink. let the bucks move there. You should read all the posts from bucks fans wanting a newer bigger place to play in. have the owners meeting inside the park. I could go on and on with what could be done.

 

it seems so odd to me that Bud was known for his financial mind set where the bottom line came before winning, that he didn't want miller park to also be more financially profit oriented than baseball purist oriented. I aways thought of Bud as a dollars and dollars man rather than being a dollars and sense(cents) man. having an open air stadium is not something a miser would usually think of. What would scrooge do?

 

back to the subject ....

 

I just am led to wonder if the brewers had more money to spend in the 90's, would they have spent it wisely? Would they have spent it on player payroll and brought in some marquis players? or would they have spent it to reduce their ownership debt? would the bottom line still be more important than fielding a great team?

[Brian the Automator]

Would they have spent it on player payroll and brought in some marquis players?

You're funny, and you didn't even mean it.

 

[Big Reed]

thanks brian.

 

I mean well.