Riske close to being a Brewer? (Possible announcement midweek)

[aracko]

I agree - Anderson isnt and wont be a part of the glue of this team in my opinion. Maybe there is a 2 for 1 swap coming before the signing is official?

[Big Reed]

this is the reason i requested that potential FA signings be placed in the rumors section before being finalized. The initial post said three years with an option for a 4th. ESPN now says 1 year. it's smart to keep the thread in the rumors section until the deal is finalized and the facts are in.

 

I think the acquisition of riske is a good one. I would prefer the one year signing verses the long term signing as i believe the brewers have a sufficient number of potentially good relievers at AAA and AA that could be called upon next year or the following one making Riske an expensive unneeded luxury middle reliever. This is not to say Riske won't continue to perform at his level of last year. but in 2-3 years, we will not need him, and he would be blocking the potential progression of one of our younger pitchers.

 

I'd still like to see the brewers go after a savy veteran ot be a situational lefty for our bullpen.

[jjfanec]

Big Reed, who are the potentially good relievers in AA/AAA? I am not disagreeing more wondering.

[twobrewers]

Not that it is worth much, but the ESPN.com article still mentions a multi-year deal.

[And That]

If the signing were announced today, they could wait to have him do the complete physical in Milwaukee and the official signing and all that until next week, in case Melvin added/subtracted something at the winter meetings. No one would have to be moved off the 40-man roster at this point in time that way.

[patrickgpe]

for closers are made, check out the list of closers who were set up man and the brewers gave them their first chance at closing (off the top of my head, so i might miss someone, also i am only going form 1990-on)

 

Turnbow

DeJean

Henry

Fetters

Kolb

Wickman

 

the only two i can think of that had closers experience before coming here was jones and coco.

[Big Reed]

Of AAA and AA, several guys who come mind are Jackson, Dilliard, Hinton, and Bray. I guess you could include Salome and Sarfate. I doubt Rogers or Jeffress will be ready. Although Jeffress is an interesting case. He could be a great starter or a dominant closer if he gets his head on straight. he also has the potential and talent to move up fast like Gallardo did. That is, if he wants dedicates himself to pitching. Looking at the Brewers' projected starting rotation for 2008 and 2009, I doubt Jackson (although considered a starter) will be able to crack the starting rotation. I also suspect Villanueva will also become a reliever rather than starter. I' m unsure what Manny Parra's future is. He could be a starter or a great lefty set-up man if Capuano refinds his pitching touch.

 

I think Parra could be a lot like Franco or Dibble when they were set-up men for the Reds. Would Parra be more valuable as a starter? or a very dominant set-up man?

 

My point is that Riske will be a nice addition for 2008. but his role as a setup man could easily be filled by one of these above mentioned pitchers in 2009 or 2010 who could do just as well at 1/10th the cost. or in the case of Vilanueva or Parra, they both could do a lot better job than Riske as a set-up man.

[trwi7]

I guess you could include Salome and Sarfate.

Sarfate got traded in September and Salome is a catcher. I also don't know why people want Villanueva in the bullpen. He is so much more valuable as a starter.

[Tbadder]

I think this is a good point, and shows the danger of not giving young kids a shot. We didn't give Thatcher a shot and it may have cost us dearly (though that is left to be determined). I quite frankly forgot about Jackson, but might he not he make a good lefty long reliever, or set-up man. We'll never know unless they give him a chance. Sure he was shaky as a starter, but maybe that's the point--he's a relief pitcher in waiting. He may bomb, but lets face it Z. Jackson is not exactly in the crew's long term picture anyways.

 

I think Reed's got it exactly right, sure Riske will help this year and maybe the next. but I'd be willing to bet the last two years he's a contractual millstone.

[Big Reed]

thanks, trwi7. I guess we won't include Sarafe and Salome. but my point remains. I think the brewers have some young pitchers who could emerge in 2009 and 2010 and be dominant set-up men, and I believe several young pitchers currently on the major league roster who are being thought of as future starting pitchers may be a better fit as a set-up man. I think guys like Parra and Vilanueava could be "lights out" dominant 1 inning set-up or closers rather than 5-6 innings starters.

 

again, i think Riske would be a nice addition for 2008. But not for 4 years.

[twobrewers]

Luis Pena might have a good chance to compete for the bullpen.

He closed at AA last year. Seems like the team is really high on him. Another power arm.

I doubt he has any chance of closing this year - but maybe next.

(Beat you Bret!)

[bretsky07]

Don't forget about Luis Pena, Dave Johnson, and Marino Salas. All three will likely see AAA this year.

[1e Corbeau]

I think it's incredibly important to develop players within the organization (see: Sheets, Fielder, Braun, Weeks, Hardy, Hart, Gallardo, Hall).

 

However, I think the above logic fails to consider that, while ZJ, Dillard, Hinton, Bray, etc. may be unknown commodities to you or I, they have substantial minor league track records and scouting reports that are very known by the folks who make the decisions on roster makeup. Simply throwing a guy in to see if he might be alright leads more likely to results similar Hendrickson, Eveland, ZJ's first run in Milwaukee, Liriano, Martinez, and so on, than to the success of, say, Gallardo.

 

Throwing fresh meat onto the mound is more of a rebuilding strategy than a contending strategy. You have a far better chance at understanding what you're getting with a guy like Riske who has an MLB track record, not just an MiLB track record.

[Big Reed]

I will not argue the fact that Riske is a known commodity and would be the better relief pitcher for 2008 and maybe 2009. but Parra and Vilanueva are also known commidities. I think both would do an equal or better job as a set-up man. . I have heartburns signing pitchers to long term contracts - especially middle relievers. based on the performance of other young brewer relievers, I have to believe the brewers will have at least 2-3 pitchers as stated above who will be more than ready to be a set-up man in 2009 or 2010. That is why I would favor signing Riske to a shorter contract such as 2 years rather than 3 with an option for a 4th.

 

I would probably have a different opinion if it was somebody like Billy Wagner or Saito. But we're talking about Riske. I believe a contract similar to the 2 year deal Percival received is more in order. I also like Brad Lidge, but i wouldn't want to give him anything more than 2 years.

[1e Corbeau]

I'd much prefer Riske on a 1-yr deal, though I doubt that's the case. 2-yrs wouldn't be too terrible, either. And I'd much prefer him to not be relied upon to be our best reliever (or "closer" as some say).

 

As far as Villy and Parra, I'd like to see both of them in the starting rotation. For Villy, I think he'll be better than Bush, Cappy, and Vargas (perhaps even Suppan) this year. I think the Brewers see Parra as a starter, so long as the health holds, so I tend to think they'll use him as such for at least part of the season. Whether that means MLB, AAA, or as the long man/spot starter waiting for the first injury, I can only guess. Which would be: 5th starter, having traded Cappy and Vargas. (Isn't guessing what this whole forum is for?)

[Tbadder]

Corbeau: you make an excellent point about track-records in the minors. But Thatcher and Sarfate are two glaring examples of how the Brewer management may have missed (notice I said may have) on when they needed bullpen help deparately. Now, after losing Linebrink and Cordero, we left ourselves even more in the lurch and looking to trade more players for relievers or signing free agents, which isn't the best strategy for a small market team.

[TooLiveBrew]

Dude he earned that rep while in Cleveland and ask any Indian's fan...they will tell you the same thing. He was given a chance to close more then once while in Cleveland and he imploded. He often blew up in pressure situations then would dominate for stretches in low pressure situations. for the most part he's a good set up guy who can't handle the closers role. There are pitchers like that, believe it or not. It's a mental thing I guess. But ESPN was actually not off base to make that comment.

For KC last year Riske was great as their setup guy. But KC refused to give him a shot at closing, even though they needed one. The is not a closer and I don't think Melvin signed him to be our closer. He's linebrink's replacement. Also I think Riske is good paired up with Turnbow. Riske cannot handle alot of innings. So having Turnbow and Riske sharing set up duties is a good thing.

I guess it's not that I don't believe you, madtowndrunkard, but I'd love to see some leverage ratings for Riske when he was in Cleveland. That's interesting, and I hadn't heard that.

As for KC refusing to give him a shot at closer, that's because Joakim (sp?) Soria is their closer, and he's filthy-nasty. It wasn't that the Royals refused to even let Riske have the chance - they had a guy who they wanted for that role already in-house.

[1e Corbeau]

Agreed on Thatcher - both that the potential mistake and that the verdict is still out. Sarfate just walked way too many batters for my liking, even with the nasty stuff. Relievers putting guys on base for free is never a good thing and specifically verboten in the Brewers stated pitching philosophy.

 

In this free agent class, I don't mind the 1- or 2-year deals for decent (above league average) relief pitchers. Besides Cordero, there wasn't anything we were going to spend big on (excluding potential extension of our own guys).

 

I'm also not huge on trading big pieces for relief arms, neither pre-arby nor rental. Prospects, yeah sure, depending on who and how many.

 

I guess this might seem contradictory: I'm against throwing potential AAAA guys on the mound to see what sticks, I like short term contracts for solid (not exceptional) relievers, and I don't like trading everyday players for relief studs. Perhaps this is some form or product of the valuing of the save as a stat and they way that, most often, a team hold its best reliever for a prescribed situation that isn't always the most high-leverage: ninth inning with a less than four run lead.

[Weirdos19]

I think Villy is penciled in the rotation. Vargas and Cappy start in the pen unless traded. At least one of them is gone.

 

Cappy for Fuentes makes a ton of sense now.

 

Sheets, Yo, Suppan, Villy, Bush/Parra.

 

I think the Villy situation backfired last year when he got over used. He is only a starter this year, where he has been extremely effective.

[And That]

Haudricourt's latest blog states that the Riske deal is still on track, but it is being put on hold until Monday.

[patrickgpe]

as speculated earlier, it could be put off until a 3-2 or 2-1 trade was made to drop a spot off of the 40.

[trwi7]

as speculated earlier, it could be put off until a 3-2 or 2-1 trade was made to drop a spot off of the 40.

 

The rumored Cardinals deal is Rolen and either Franklin or Flores for Capuano, Mench and Gwynn. That would clear a spot for him.

[splitterpfj]

Guys, if Mench is in that deal, it has to happen fast. The arby deadline is tomorrow, the Brewers have to move Mench, keep him, or let him walk.

[And That]

Mench is Brewers' property until the 12th at least. They just have to offer arby to him by tomorrow. At least I think.

[patrickgpe]

well then of course if he was offered, we could have a graffanino situation like last season and be stuck with him if we are unable to move him. I would think it would be easier to remove anderson, let him clear waivers, offer him a minor league contract and get Riske signed.