Brian Fuentes and the Rockies

[colbyjack]

I wanted to share a link to a Rockies blog, Purple Row, in which one of their writers seems to agree that Brian Fuentes could/should be on the block:

 

http://www.purplerow.com/

 

Francisco Cordero's signing with the Reds means that the late inning reliever market is pretty close to peaking this offseason. Unfortunately, I think a healthy influx of Japanese talent this season had me overestimating the potential trade haul the Rockies can get for Brian Fuentes right now. I think I'm back in the wait until the July trade deadline camp to move him now. Teams that should be interested in Fuentes, like the Brewers Rays and Royals (who want to move Soria to the rotation) are either turning to the Japanese imports like Fukumori Kazuo or closers of seasons past for their solutions. The Rays and Royals in particular seem keen on Fukumori, while Troy Percival and the already in house Derrick Turnbow are getting all the press in Milwaukee as the Brewers' next options.

 

The writer is probably correct that the Rockies could get more for Fuentes at next year's trade deadline since teams always seem to give up more for pitchers (yes, Linebrink) at the deadline as opposed to the offseason (or at least that would seem like something Doug Melvin would say). But I'm still not convinced that Melvin is going to head into 2008 with Turnbow or one of Dotel/Percival/Gagne and likely is saying so for the purpose of posturing more than anything else.

 

Included in the same entry (from Nov. 26th) is a breakdown of the Rockies most pressing needs, with second base being one of those needs. I'm not so sure the Rockies would deal Fuentes for Hall, since 2B seems to be one of those positions that is always easier to address in a more cost efficient manner, but I just wanted to share the link along with the comments above as a possibility.

 

I would also look into what kind of package it what take to land both Brad Hawpe and Fuentes, as the Rockies have a young player by the name of Ian Stewart that they may want to get regular playing time, and he could platoon with Jeff Baker in RF if Hawpe, who is arbitration eligible and is poised to enjoy a huge raise, is dealt.

 

Hawpe could be a player that could approach 100 BBs, and his home/road splits aren't as ugly as you might think they are: .289/.380/.511 at home vs. .280/.374/.486 on the road. He's also known to have a cannon for an arm and is solid defensively. Garrett Atkins I suppose could be a possibility being in a similar boat as Hawpe, but I just get the feeling that the Rockies consider Hawpe less of a long-term option than they do Atkins, reinforced by some of the writer's comments in the blog entry.

 

The Rockies are in an interesting position coming off of a World Series appearance in that they have quite a few free agents, several other arbitration candidates that are due for huge pay raises and they may be looking to free up payroll to take a legitimate shot at trying to re-up Matt Holliday, even if it would seem more likely for the Boras (I think) client to test the market when he becomes eligible for FA.

[erbacaine04]

Actually you get less value at the Trade Deadline when trading a player as opposed to Now.... Right now especially in the weak class of Free Agents, you get teams starting to get desperate.

 

You offer the Linebrink trade as overspending What did we actually give up in that trade

Will Inman- Arguably our number 4 Pitching prospect behind(Yovanni, Parra and Mark Rogers) who was a 3rd round pick

Steve Garrison- who was not even in the top 20 in the Brewers farm system(10th round pick)

Joe Thatcher- Who had very nice numbers at AAA But is also 27 years old and obviously the scouts did not see anything they liked of him here because he had plenty of chances to crack the bullpen in the First half when Shouse struggled early on(he was undrafted by the way)

 

And we got that for a guy that was talked about as the MAIN piece for Adam Dunn in a July 2006 trade deadline deal that fell through.

 

 

 

Right now you get the best value because Most teams go into this season thinking they have a shot..... at the trade deadline you see teams sending MORE prospects then anything else because if they are in the Running for a playoff spot then more often then not you dont want to change that part of the team...you are trying to add pieces not take away.

[TooLiveBrew]

Welcome aboard, eb04!

 

Colby, I like the notion of trying to bag Hawpe along with Fuentes. I'm of the belief that Capuano alone could net us Fuentes (& that Cappy would do very well pitching in front of Col's INF defense), and my only hangup in trying to include Hawpe is what the extra cost would be.

[dadofandrew]

Just out of curiousity, Hall and Capuano for Fuentes and Hawpe...that seems very good for us. Would there be a Brewers' player that would benefit them to balance it out? For example, would Gross help them as a utility OF if they are dealing an OF?

[brewerfan82]

Yes please! Make that trade and go ahead and see what it takes to get Luke Scott from the Astros as well and call it an offseason:

 

 Career Splits 3-Year Splits
-vs- R -vs- L Overall
Player Age B/T AVG/OBP/SLG AVG/OBP/SLG AVG/OBP/SLG AB/BB AB/SO $$$

2B Weeks, Rickie 25 R/R 249/345/403 250/392/433 250/357/411 7.62 3.71 2.000
LF Scott, Luke 30 L/R 276/364/534 259/372/431 273/366/516 7.21 4.12 PRE-ARB
3B Braun, Ryan 24 R/R 282/319/526 450/516/964 324/370/634 15.55 4.03 0.415
1B Fielder, Prince 24 L/R 290/381/570 256/339/489 280/369/546 7.95 4.57 0.500
CF Hart, Corey 26 R/R 270/315/486 313/389/544 284/340/506 13.54 4.76 0.450
RF Hawpe, Brad 29 L/L 294/388/510 220/295/398 285/377/498 6.67 4.00 ARB
SS Hardy, JJ 25 R/R 251/308/383 297/359/558 263/321/429 11.62 7.58 ARB
C Kendall, Jason 34 R/R 297/374/387 297/379/418 271/340/325 12.08 11.99 4.250 

 

Throw Mench in rightfield against lefties and Mission: Raise OBP accomplished!

[colbyjack]

I'm not so sure Cappy and Hall for Fuentes and Hawpe would work. I agree with TLB's assessment that getting both Hawpe and Fuentes is probably a lot more difficult, and likely would be more of a blockbuster deal. I'm not sure what it would take, but I'm guessing it would require pieces that we don't have.

 

Hall for Fuentes straight up may be more manageable, but then of course causes the need for the Brewers to find two OFs instead of one (although I like the options out there finding an additional OF that I do finding a competent closer).

[colbyjack]

Tracy Ringolsby singles out Chris Capuano as a target the Rockies may be interested in, while pointing out that Brian Fuentes would be a good fit for the Brewers (although he also says in the story that the Brewers and Rockies don't fit very well, which is a little odd):

 

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/dec/03/odowd-not-looking-for-major-team-fixes/

 

Given his comments about Fuentes, it would seem as though the Rockies are motivated to move him since he likely is going to make $5M+ in arbitration.

[PeaveyFury]

From that article:

 

Fuentes has said he wants to be somewhere that will allow him to close

 

I'd say Fuentes is a decent bet to be moved this week.

[twobrewers]

Capuano for Fuentes makes a lot of sense for both teams.

 

The only problem is that Capuano might end up in St. Louis for Rolen. I would hope one of the teams would be willing to take Bush. (Or better yet, Vargas)

 

Adding Rolen & Fuentes would pretty much make a perfect offseason.

[TCSM]

twobrewers, I believe that it would either be between Rolen OR Fuentes due to the fact both seem to be interested in Capuano. Unfortuantely we only have one...but maaaybe since Jackson kind of pitches like Capuano we can slip them a few beers hoping they wouldn't no the difference. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[twobrewers]

Wouldn't Bush have similar value to Capuano?

Granted, Capuano is left-handed and a former all-star - but Bush had a better year this year.

Bush is one year behind Capuano in arbitration. So he will be cheaper as well.

[TooLiveBrew]

Seriously, is Capuano enough to lure Fuentes in straight-up? That's a deal that you don't really need to ponder at this point. If the Rox want to trade him because he's due roughly $5 mil. in arbitration, we need to leap on that concern. > 1/2 of what Cordero got? Make it happen.

 

Also, as colby mentioned Hawpe, imho whatever you'd have to add to the deal (within reason) would likely be worth it. Honestly, if Cappy + TGJ would get us to even 75% on adding those two Rockies, you just can't let that get away. I still have a man-crush on Luke Scott's production, but Hawpe might even be an upgrade.

[And That]

If trading Capuano for Fuentes precludes the Brewers from dealing for Rolen, I say poopoo to Fuentes. Rolen's defense at 3B and Braun's stick in LF > Fuentes as a closer. I'd also be hesitant to trade both Bush and Capuano, but I guess Bush for Fuentes is something you have to consider.

[twobrewers]

I'd also be hesitant to trade both Bush and Capuano, but I guess Bush for Fuentes is something you have to consider.

I thought that at first as well. But that still leaves a starting rotation of...

Sheets

Gallardo

Suppan

Villanueva

Parra/Vargas with the other shifting to the LR role.

 

If Parra is healthy, he is a great 5th starter. If he is unable to handle the role - Vargas is still very adequate. (Plus, in the playoffs you don't need a 5th starter. You do need a closer)

 

Capuano for Rolen & Bush for Fuentes would solve every problem on the Brewers. It would thin our starting rotation - but not necessarily weaken it.

[JohnBriggs12]

Fuentes as the closer is much better value than an overpriced, past his prime, injured 3B, who doesn't put up numbers that got him the big contract that the Brewers would be saddled with. As much as I'd love to see Capuano in the division where the Brewers could pummell him with regularity, I think the Rockies are a better fit.

 

Besides, it's too soon to give up on Braun at 3B. He needs at least one more year there. The strategy of drafting LaPorta would be wasted if Braun becomes a corner OF. If and when Braun has to be moved, his replacement at third should be Hardy, who lacks range at SS.

 

If Bush goes in a deal, it should be for the lefthanded stick in LF.

[bjkrautk]

Rolen was one of my favorite non-Brewers, but his injuries are a serious concern for me. I'd also like to give Braun one more year to see whether his defense could improve at 3B, leaving an opening in the OF for LaPorta in the process.

 

Count me among those who'd prefer Fuentes, provided he signs a 3+ year extension.

[And That]

It's a dangerous game to hope Braun's defense improves by the leaps and bounds it would need to in order for him to be even useful at third base. If he plays third next year, it is very likely he'll improve by some degree - it would be more difficult for him to regress at this point because his defense was so bad. Then you'll be tempted to look at whatever improvements he made defensively, even if he just went from apocalyptic to catastrophic, and say "Yes, he improved! Let's give him one more year to see if he gets even better!" And then in 2009, when he improves from catastrophic to unfathomable you say "Wow! He improved again!"

 

He stands almost no chance of becoming even close to average by next season. The Brewers are good, but not good enough to where they afford to continue defensive experiments like this. In order to win the division and advance in the playoffs, the Brewers must get much better on defense. Leaving Ryan Braun at third base does nothing to maximize the club's defensive potential.

[Tbadder]

I'd agree. The Brewers have hit the wall in player development. I can't see them signing a major free agent (unless it's Jones and then there's the risk that he really does suck expensively) and besides I don't think he's a put them over the top kinda acquistion. No, I think they've got to tighten the defense where they can. Weeks must continue to imporve, braun must move, and we must hope that a CF who can really go get it is found. Otherwise, they are going exactly no where.

[southpaw121505]

I would love to get Hawpe and Fuentes as well, and I'd do it for Cappy and Hall. Something tells me it would cost more than that though, Hawpe "quietly" had a great year at the dish. If it doesn't cost too much more than that I'd pull the trigger. I think we have some leverage with Rolen, is anyone else after him? I'd try Vargas/Mench/ +? for Rolen. If both of these deals happen and we still have Bush or Cappy as the 5th starter I'd be thrilled.

[JJHardy7]

He stands almost no chance of becoming even close to average by next season. The Brewers are good, but not good enough to where they afford to continue defensive experiments like this. In order to win the division and advance in the playoffs, the Brewers must get much better on defense. Leaving Ryan Braun at third base does nothing to maximize the club's defensive potential.

 

Then get Rolen. Get a player that justifies putting Braun in the OF and possibly causing another trade when LaPorta is ready. As of today, I believe the Brewers have bigger issues than Braun. I think the bullpen needs some work first. They have too many starting pitchers and a trade will be made. If all else fails, the Brewers can always put Hall at 3B (I know they are hesitant) and put Braun in the OF. I think people are jumping off the edge a bit on this...the Brewers have a 3B of good quality already on the team. Braun hasn't played 3B professionally all that long. I'd rather get a bullpen and then worry about Braun and where he may move -- since Hall is already on the team and could play 3B.

 

I think it's getting lost in all this the year Braun had from an offensive standpoint. He's a great, young player who will improve on defense. We can look at statistics as much as we want, but it boils down to...is Braun athletic and physically gifted enough to play 3B? I believe he is...I'm not saying I'm right, but the Brewers are months away from having to make an absolute decision on this.

[MoneyballMan]

DM said this afternoon that the Fuentes thing isn't going to happen, so he should be a Brewer by Wednesday, right?

[Never Outhustled]

I've been all over Capuano for Fuentes since early July. Its makes too much sense not to happen.

 

As for Hawpe, I'm not interested, as we already have enough dreadful defenders. His arm is strong, but he misplays flyballs constantly, and lacks speed.

 

As for the Role/Braun thing, the question is, does Rolens improvement make enough of a difference to make up for the struggles Braun would have adjusting to the OF? Braun has never played anywhere but SS until a few years ago, and has never played OF.

[dadofandrew]

Just out of curiousity, when has Doug ever said a trade would not happen and then it did? Examples, please.

[JJHardy7]

As for the Role/Braun thing, the question is, does Rolens improvement make enough of a difference to make up for the struggles Braun would have adjusting to the OF? Braun has never played anywhere but SS until a few years ago, and has never played OF.

 

Agreed. I just don't like the assumption that Braun will be able to handle that because it's easier. Maybe he can, but maybe he can't. I still take Rolen if the trade makes sense. I'd rather not get a journeyman 3B to replace Braun. That wouldn't make sense, but a healthy Rolen does.

 

Back to the thread...I'd do Capuano for Fuentes I guess, but Fuentes isn't a young player. I don't know if this has been thrown out, but I think Fuentes and Capuano have somewhat similar stuff. What about saying no to the trade for Fuentes and putting Capuano there? I think he could do well there and is a smart player.

[trwi7]

Just out of curiousity, when has Doug ever said a trade would not happen and then it did? Examples, please.

 

Overbay maybe?