Pete Rose speech help

[jlau20]

I'm not asking anyone to do my homework but here's the deal. I just found out today that I have to give a persuasive speech on Thursday. Whenever I'm in a bind for a speech I always fall back on a baseball topic. I did a speech like this in high school, but I can't remember what my main points were. Right now I'm looking at justifying him being in the Hall of Fame based on stats alone. On top of that, I wanted to use examples of other not so 'role model' players who've made it into the Hall of Fame, but I'm beat and am having a hard time thinking of names.

 

Anyone bored and want to throw out some ideas?

[mothershipconnection]

1 name for ya: Ty Cobb. Fergie Jenkins and Orlando Cepeda were arrested with drugs. Gaylord Perry cheated

 

Baseball reference.

Similar Batters

 

1. Paul Molitor (674) *

2. Tris Speaker (633) *

3. Ty Cobb (618) *

4. Robin Yount (602) *

5. Paul Waner (590) *

6. George Brett (587) *

7. Cap Anson (572) *

8. Craig Biggio (571)

9. Lou Brock (569) *

10. Rickey Henderson (554)

 

Black Ink: Batting - 64 (15) (Average HOFer ? 27)

Gray Ink: Batting - 239 (24) (Average HOFer ? 144)

HOF Standards: Batting - 55.0 (49) (Average HOFer ? 50)

HOF Monitor: Batting - 313.0 (12) (Likely HOFer > 100)

 

17 time all star.

2 gold gloves

ROY

MVP

All-time leader in AB, Hits. Singles, Games, PA, 2nd in doubles, 6th in runs, 7th in total bases, 13th in BB. 8 Playoff appearances, 3 world series rings.

[DSFastball55]

Stats are only part of the story. If stats were the whole story, you will see Barry Bonds elected on the first ballot. Pete Rose was justifiably banned, and should never be brought back. Comparing Pete Rose to players that used drugs or steroids is like comparing apples and oranges, as is comparing him to players like Cobb who is supposedly a murderer. None of these things are good of course, but Pete's offenses against the game are clearly worse than any drug or steroid user.

To be clear, I believe that:

The use of recreational drugs or even "hard drugs" should not be enough to keep you out.

Steroid use, if proven, should be enough to keep you out. I am for Bonds in the hall until actual proof, not speculation, of intentional steroid use is found.

Illegal activities outside the game should not be enough to keep you out, no matter how serious.

Serious offenses against the game of baseball should be a no-brainer to keep you out. Gambling on a game in which you are a manager might be the worst thing you can do.

 

Just my opinion of course.

[Fatter than Joey]

Right now I'm looking at justifying him being in the Hall of Fame based on stats alone. On top of that, I wanted to use examples of other not so 'role model' players who've made it into the Hall of Fame, but I'm beat and am having a hard time thinking of names.

 

I think this makes for a poor argument. As Slobberknocker points out, it's hard to equate gambling on games you are a part of, with using recreational drugs.

 

I think if I were you I would argue that the HOF removes its rule that "players on permanent suspension are ineligible". I would take this path.

 

1.) Pete Rose bet on MLB and that sucks.

2.) Pete Rose should be suspended from playing coaching or managing

3.) The writers or veteran committee should be able to vote on Rose, and should be able express their opinion.

 

I would make the persuasive point the idea that the voters should be able to cast their vote, and what ever outcomes that bears out will be better than an automatic suspension from a museum. I would try to sell the idea that the writers got screwed by never getting their opportunity to weigh in on the controversy.

[RobertR]

Yeah, I'm with FTJ, I find the argument of "but they're a bunch of lowlifes too" unpersuasive on the face of it. Character is a clause for consideration when voting. However, you can make an argument that he deserves his day before the writers and they can give him their up or down vote. It's one of the reasons that I don't get worked up about Shoeless Joe. Shoeless Joe was on the ballot for several years, even got some votes too during the late 30s and early 40s, but his contemporaries decided his baseball sins overweighed his baseball accomplishments. As far as I can tell, Pete Rose is the only player in baseball history, with enough service time, who's never had his day before the voters. Now, I think that's Pete's fault, but I can make a case that a guy who bet on his team to win committed a lesser baseball sin than accepting money to throw a World Series and therefore Pete deserves his day before the voters too.

 

Robert

[splitterpfj]

http://www.brewerfan.net/ViewArticle.do?articleId=225

[jlau20]

Thanks for the help guys, I was already thinking of dropping the these other guys are a "bunch of lowlifes too" angle. Thanks for the suggestion of the Shoeless Joe being on the ballot, I did one of my other speeches on Shoeless Joe so it's a good call back to my other one anyways.

 

I'm still not sure where I stand on Rose being reinstated, kind of why I chose the topic, so I don't really disagree with what any of you said.

 

Thanks again.

[Fatter than Joey]

I'm still not sure where I stand on Rose being reinstated, kind of why I chose the topic

 

I'd stay away from that -- I would stick to the topic of "Giving the writers their voice" -- and that you would respect the wishes of the writers.