Bullpen

[wcswimmer712]

As of now, our bullpen could be : Turnbow, Wise, Mota, Shouse, Luis Pena, Steve Bray, and Mitch Stetter (possibly Aquino Or McClung). We could throw these young arms into the mix, assuming we don't acquire any other arms (which I doubt)

 

Pena and Bray both achieved succes this past year in the minors, Bray is 27 and deserves a shot in the bigs. This year Bray had an ERA of 1.62 in 42 G and 77 IP. Although his stuff is supposedly average, Bray continues to post good numbers at each level. In 2006, he had ERA's of 2.70 and 1.25 at AA and AAA, while issuing 7 BB's in 63 IP, and only 4 BB in 21 IP. This pen could use someone who doesn't issue walks (See Turnbow, McClung, Aquino, Mota)

 

Pena is a 24 year old that supposedly throws in the upper 90's with hard sink (2.17 and 2.03 GroundOuts/Air Out in the minors this year at A and AA) and posted ERA's of 2.08 and 2.89 in A and AA, with 27 K's in 21 IP and 42 K's in 47 IP compared to only 7 BB and 14BB in the same IP, while opponents only batted .201 against him. However, he might suffer from our defense with his high ground ball rate.

 

They could be similar to Arizona's pen in Tony Pena (young arm with great stuff and same last name ; ) and Brandon Lyon

[adambr2]

I really thought Bray would be getting a shot, or should be getting a shot in '08, considering his '07. I hate that he is in Winter Ball right now. I think Capellan was a pretty good example of how the extra wear and tear of winter ball brings a pitcher down.

[hauser42]

You ever doesn't make the starting rotation will be in the pen also. Sheets, Yo, Suppan are locks, but that leaves Parra, Villy, Cappy, and Vargas for two spots unless there is trade made with one of them.

[logan82]

I would say that Villy has a spot locked up in the starting rotation also. He wore down as a reliever and was very good as a starter.

[sbrylski]

I'd just as soon give Bray, Stetter and Pena shots instead of paying for Herges who probably won't do any better. Not sure about the organization's stance on Bray though, he'll be unprotected in the Rule 5.

[JJHardy7]

I've posted this before, but Bray wasn't too pleased he wasn't called up. He's not on the 40 man, so if I understand correctly (which I admit I may not) he could be selected in the rule 5? Bray deserves somes serious consideration. I know his stuff isn't that great (based on scouts), but Bray has done everything asked of him. Give him a shot. I honestly question the fact the Brewers had/have Anderson on the 40-man roster and not a guy like Bray. I know it might be harsh, but I really don't see Drew Anderson ever lasting in the bigs a full season. It's a waste of space and the fact that Bray has put up good numbers and not gotten at least a shot is one of the bigger minor league blunders lately in my opinion. I can understand why Bray may not be a happy guy in terms of his future with the Brewers.

[Picciolo]

I threw this name out at the trade deadline & was skewered because the Brewers supposedly didn't need bullpen.

 

Chad Orvella.

 

Orvella has dominated the minors for Tampa & had a decent rookie showing in 2005. He was expected to compete for closer in Spring 2006, but Maddon & Co., inexplicably messed with his mechanics and he hasn't been the same in their company since. He desperately needs a change of scenery & could probably be had for a PTBNL.

 

 

He has a career MiLB ERA of 1.83 and 0.88 WHIP with 268 K's and only 45 walks in 201.2 IP.

 

As I said in July, you can never have too many quality arms.

[dadofandrew]

Steve Bray can be as upset as he wants. He lacks much of a fastball, and those guys have to prove themselves 3-4x as much as others.

 

To be honest, they fail an awful lot in the bigs too. Jason Childers was unhittable in AAA one year also. Not saying Bray will never have a taste of MLB success, but I'd much rather take Seth McClung's future.

[Baldkin]

You ever doesn't make the starting rotation will be in the pen also. Sheets, Yo, Suppan are locks, but that leaves Parra, Villy, Cappy, and Vargas for two spots unless there is trade made with one of them.

 

You forgot Dave Bush as well.

 

So that's 5 guys for 2 spots. I like it.

[TheCouga23]

Dave Bush has good stuff. Why not make him the closer? I think he could thrive in that role. I would be satisfied with a rotation of Sheets, Gallardo, Suppan, Villanueva and Parra with Capuano and Vargas for long relief and Bush as the closer.

[ILuvDaBush]

I would be all about Bush every night.

[sbrylski]

Rotation:

Sheets, Gallardo, Suppan, Villanueva, Capuano

 

Bullpen:

Parra - Long relief and multiple inning middle relief

Herges* - Middle relief

Wise - Middle relief

Mota - Middle relief

Shouse - Loogy

Turnbow - Setup when rested

Riske** - Setup

Bush - Closer

 

That's eight. With an injury, seven. Also, Stetter, Aquino, Choate, McClung, Pena, ect. in AAA. Plenty of options to try out.

 

*Represents the average FA arm Melvin might grab, Herges seems likely at this point. I don't really think this arm is necessary.

**Represents the high quality arm Melvin should grab or trade for, though probably won't be Riske.

 

I'd also be fine with switching the role of Bush and Parra, depending on who you want stretched out. Both could handle both roles.

 

Vargas traded in package for LF/3B/RP.

[JohnBriggs12]

I believe Stetter and/or Choate will be in the pen instead of Matt Wise who should be non-tendered or traded. Stetter opened eyes in his brief September look and was lights out in AFL. Choate too had fine year at AAA and newly acquired guys usually get long looks.

 

Wise was horrific for last 2 months, which is his pattern ever since donning a Brewer uniform.

 

Parra will be in rotation. They will be able to control his innings by bypassing the 5th starter early on. Capuano, if he's still a Brewer, will be in long relief.

[Ashford Lando]

Nice post, sbrylski06. I agree with your rotation.

 

Parra will be long relief -- grooming him for the rotation in '09 and beyond. Mota and Turnbow will be in the 'pen, along with one outsider (Herges the front runner??)... Wise won't be there. Even Shouse is questionable depending on how the youngsters do in SP. Meaning, McClung (bump:Wise) and possibly Setter (bump: Shouse) will find a roster spot.

 

As for the closer? I would definitely give Bush a try -- assuming DM cannot trade for an establish closer (Fuentes??? I also wonder if we can afford the price on Street?)(bump: McClung) as I would prefer to give Bush the eighth for one season before handing the role to him.

 

Parra

newbie (Herges?)

McClung

Shouse/Setter

Mota

Turnbow

Bush

 

Man -- while that's what I see now, it's definitely not what I am hoping for.

[JJHardy7]

Steve Bray can be as upset as he wants. He lacks much of a fastball, and those guys have to prove themselves 3-4x as much as others.

 

To be honest, they fail an awful lot in the bigs too. Jason Childers was unhittable in AAA one year also. Not saying Bray will never have a taste of MLB success, but I'd much rather take Seth McClung's future.

 

 

This is true, but I really don't know what Bray had to do last year to get a September call up. I don't know if he'll have success in the bigs, but I think he deserves a shot. Not getting a September call up has me feeling he'll need to be lights out to get a chance to be on the 25 man.

 

I'd also take McClung's future over Bray's.

[twobrewers]

Pena has been having some trouble with control in winter ball.

12 innings 10 hits. 9 walks. 10 strikeouts.

And his GO/AO has dropped to 0.80.

Small sample. But still noteworthy.

[sbrylski]

JB, with Parra's injury history I hope they take it as slow as possible with him. When they have an alternative like Capuano, a league average starter, he should be in the rotation. Parra (or Bush) acting as the 6th starter will give him his time.

 

As for Wise, why does everyone hate him? I'm going to have to bring out the ol' Wise avatar.

 

His ERA the last four years with us has been: 4.44, 3.36, 3.86, 4.19 (and a 3.83 FIP last season)

 

That's sure better than Choate, Herges, and Mota. The knock on him is he can only go about 50 innings a season, right? That's okay if we know that ahead of time and don't rely on his arm. He was great in the first half last season (2.87 ERA), and had just ~10 really bad innings to end the season. That's nothing.

 

I definitely think he should be kept around.

 

And yes, Stetter would be option #9 in my bullpen outlined above. I'd bump a couple different guys out to get him in there, but I think Melvin and Yost will stick with the vets in the early going.

[Ashford Lando]

I think my thing with Wise is that while he is steady (read: average) during the season, I'm not sure he would be lights out in the playoffs (read: under pressure).

 

Wow -- am I really thinking that way???

 

Let's split the difference on this one -- keep Wise until late June/early July when Percival is ready to come out of the house and play.

[BrewCityUnit]

Why do some people want Dave Bush to be our closer? Doesn't a closer need an out pitch, like a good fastball or slider. How many closers are out there who have Dave Bush stuff?

[bjkrautk]

As I see things today:

 

Sheets

Suppan

Gallardo

Villanueva

Capuano

 

Turnbow - closer (won't do as bad as people thing....but will still get lit up by teams on occasion.)

Shouse - LOOGY / Primary Setup

McClung - 7th/8th inning Setup

Wise - 6th/7th inn. Setup

Mota - 6th/7th inn. Setup (so that Wise never throws on consecutive days)

Bush* - Long Relief <-> early setup (*- loser of starting rotation spot between Bush, Vargas, Capuano...that doesn't get injured or traded)

Parra - Long Relief

Z. Jackson - Wild Card (a la Carlos V. last year; could also be LOOGY-in-training)

 

 

If the team can acquire another reliever, that will slide everyone else down a spot (maybe not Turnbow....depending on who the new reliever is).

I'll be the first to admit that I didn't see ZJ pitch in 2007, but my memory from 2006 is that he has a deceptive delivery which would seem to work best in one-AB / hitter appearances. I don't know that he has the velocity to be much above a #3 starter....so it's not as dramatic a conversion from the rotation as would be someone like Villanueva. I'd be curious as to his splits L/R and by pitch # if anyone has them (ESPN doesn't even have the '06 stats available.)

[sweepscc]

Dave Bush doesn't have closer material let alone set up guy material. It's usually nice to have a fastball that can reach at least 92 or a dominant off speed pitch. Dave Bush has neither, he's a nice 5 or maybe 4 pitcher or maaybeee a long relief pitcher. If we go into the season with the above bullpen,i.e., T-blow closing and Matt Wise as set-up, I will call for Melvin's head as soon as I pass through the turnstile opening day.

[monkeyman343434]

I would love to see melvin sign Riske to a reasonable 3 year deal, maybe something like 3/12? , on top of that if he could trade Capuano for Fuentes, that could be a very solid bullpen, I would then like to see a rotation/bullpen something like this:

Sheets

Gallardo

Suppan

Bush

Villanueva

 

Vargas

Wise

Mota

Shouse

Turnbow

Riske

Fuentes

 

Other possibilities could include McClung, Bray, Pena, Stetter and would allow for Parra to get full time starts in AAA while also providing SP depth, with vargas as another possible spot rotation guy as well as long reliever, it isn't the sexiest rotation/bullpen, but one that I think could do the job, as every starter in the rotation should be able to give 6+ every time out, allowing the bullpen to stay fresh

[sbrylski]

Dave Bush doesn't have closer material let alone set up guy material. It's usually nice to have a fastball that can reach at least 92 or a dominant off speed pitch.

Why? If he can get guys out, he can get them out. The rest of our pen is mostly power guys, so it might be a good contrast.

 

[sweepscc]

If memory serves, didn't Bush get lit up in his bullpen outings with the Brewers?

[TheCouga23]

Why do some people want Dave Bush to be our closer? Doesn't a closer need an out pitch, like a good fastball or slider. How many closers are out there who have Dave Bush stuff?

Bush still gets a decent amount of strikeouts, and he doesn't walk many. If you look at these two stats, you would figure that he would be a much better pitcher than he is right now. The downside is that he gives up a lot of home runs. Someone with Bush's K/BB ratio would make a good closer, IMHO. I'm more willing to bank on this than trying to sign the injuries waiting to happen that are out there right now, or trading our future for someone who could blow up at any moment. Or relying on Turnbow, which is something that absolutely shouldn't happen.