Hart for Marmol and Soto (Posted by a Cubs fan at MLBTradeRumors)

[bretsky07]

First off, I know, this is ridiculous. This idea was posted (by a Cubs fan of course) at mlbtraderumors. The majority of the responses from Cub fans were along the lines of "Hart is an average outfielder, Marmol and Soto are each worth more by themselves." A few were willing to admit that Hart for Marmol was maybe an even swap.

Marmol was amazing last year, and he would be a huge get, but I couldn't justify giving anything of value to the Cubs for him, let alone Corey.

Another poster said, and this is a direct quote, "first off, soto is untouchable. mainly for the reason that his value probably isnt as high as it should be. this guy is gonna put up numbers similar to victor martinez." A quick peek at thebaseballcube brings up these minor league stats for Soto (minus this year): .261/.343/.370/.713. His AAA stats this year were .353/.424/.652/1.076 in 385 ABs. I'm not familiar enough to know if this was expected, or is this year seen as an enormous fluke for Soto?

I guess my question is, what would be a fair package (for any team) to get Marmol and Soto, and what is Hart worth to us?

To me, he's on the short list with Fielder, Braun, and Gallardo as untouchables.

[logan82]

He is amongst the untouchables to me as well, but for Marmol I would have to think about it. Hart's numbers compare favorably to Carlos Lee and Soriano, but he is way cheaper and a better defender.

 

Edit: Guess I should have specified I meant Carlos Lee not D. Lee.

[trwi7]

I just read that. Wow TrueCubsFan is a complete dolt. He goes and says Hart has no track record even though he's been much better than Soto in the minors and then calls him "an average corner OF" yes average corner outfielders go 20/20 and post .900 OPS's while playing great defense. He can play CF too.

 

I wouldn't trade Hart for them.

 

I also like the guy who posted the Dempster + prospect for Sheets deal. LOL are they homers.

[ILuvDaBush]

Many have pointed out that Hart's numbers are quite similar to Alphonso Soriano's. Considering that contract compared to Corey's situation, there is no way they are getting Hart for anything less than....well I don't know what they have that would be worth Corey. D. Lee serves no purpose, unless we could hide him in left,. A-Ram is expensive and while he would allow us to send Braun to left, his defense isn't worth the gamble that Braun COULD improve on his dismal defense last year. And Zambrano, while dominating, is one of the most expensive pitchers, and we need to look at the bottom line. And finally, Corey has been an All-Star at every level he's played,e xcept his current level. Does anyone really doubt by the end of his career that he will have an appearance or two? Marmol and Soto were fodder until this year. And I am truly skeptical about Soto considering that they let him languish most of the season at AAA and went out of their way to acquire Kendall (who at the time was considered plankton).

[crewcrazy]

I loved how they said not only does Corey Hart not have a track record, but before last year he couldn't break into the starting lineup on some bad Brewer teams. Sue him for not being able to beat out Carlos Lee and Geoff Jenkins at the age of 23, I guess. And let's just ignore the fact that it was Corey Hart winning all the awards through the minors, not Prince Fielder, Rickie Weeks, or JJ Hardy.

 

It'd be nice to get Marmol and/or Soto, but I would avoid trading Hart at all costs. Soto's not even that much of a sure thing, IMO...didn't he have to repeat AAA a couple times before he put up last year's monster stats there?

[Brian the Automator]

That's like trading Duke to Cobra for Storm Shadow and a Dreadnok. NO DEAL.

[logan82]

I would totally take Storm Shodow over Duke.

[lukevan]

Hart is just as untouchable IMO as Weeks/Braun/Fielder/Hardy. It'd be tempting to acquire Marmol, but it wouldn't make sense for us to trade Hart when we're already looking for another starting OF.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'd make that deal actually. Sure Hart is good, but is he the guy among Hardy, Weeks, Fielder etc, that a few years down the road your're going to pay top dollar for? They are just not going to be able to afford them all.

 

Marmol won the division for the Cubs last year. He was the difference maker and he fills a need much more glaring than the shortage of corner OF that would occur if Hart were dealt. Soto plays the one position where the Brewers don't have a top of the line young player. Sure it leaves the Brewers short in the OF in 08, but they can find guys to fill those spots. Besides when LaPorta is ready, do we want a lineup full of RH hitters(other than Fielder)?

[DuWayne Steurer]

I think that Hart is probably one of the guys most likely to be kept around beyond his 6 year commitment. He's not a guy I'd be looking to trade at all. I think Hart will be imminently more affordable than Fielder and Braun.

[Brian the Automator]

Marmol won the division for the Cubs last year. He was the difference maker and he fills a need much more glaring than the shortage of corner OF that would occur if Hart were dealt. Soto plays the one position where the Brewers don't have a top of the line young player. Sure it leaves the Brewers short in the OF in 08, but they can find guys to fill those spots. Besides when LaPorta is ready, do we want a lineup full of RH hitters(other than Fielder)?

I think if I viewed Hart only as a corner OF, I would agree with you. However, I think at some point we'll see Corey as our starting CF.

 

[DuWayne Steurer]

That's like trading Duke to Cobra for Storm Shadow and a Dreadnok. NO DEAL.

Maybe you didn't see the episode where Storm Shadow cut through like, a solid 3' diameter stone pillar with his sword. That's pretty bad-ass right there. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

 

[pogokat]

hardy will go before hart...hardy may go when he hits arby

[twobrewers]

Sure it leaves the Brewers short in the OF in 08, but they can find guys to fill those spots.

I am a huge Corey Hart fan. But the trade of Hart for Marmol and Soto actually makes sense.

 

We may be short in the OF for now, but we could potentially move Braun to the outfield. LaPorta will be ready before too long. And Gamel might need to be moved as well to the OF.

 

Stud catchers are harder to find than stud OF. I just can't imagine a trade this big between the Brewers and Cubs.

[molitor fan]

I just can't imagine a trade this big between the Brewers and Cubs.

 

 

Realize that in no way is this an actual rumor. It is just something talked about on a message board amongst fans. I actually signed up for an account (with an obnoxious name - STMH) just to rebut the drivel that Cubs fans were posting.

[Thurston Fluff]

Marmol had one good year as a reliever. The year before was actually pretty brutal. A lot of relievers have one or two great years ala Dan Kolb. To trade an everyday player for a reliever it would have to be for someone with a longer track record of consistant work. Soto had a nice year at AAA last year with a 1.076 OPS but his first go around at AAA in 06 his OPS was .739. He has so little time in the majors as to not really be useful for any sort of assessment. Maybe he'll be a good player maybe he'll be run of the mill at a postion of need. Maybe he's really a AAAA player who has yet to get exposed. NO way for me to tell but there is no way I'd trade Hart for anything less than a sure thing.

[davemakovec]

Maybe it's just me, but I think Hart is a budding superstar. I really expect 30-30 out of him this year. Dude's only 25 (26?), has raked all the way up, and gets better in just about every aspect of the game every year.

 

I think he's as untouchable as Gallardo, Braun and Fielder.

[endaround]

hardy will go before hart...hardy may go when he hits arby

Hardy hits arby this year. Which means Hardy maybe a Brewer for only two more seasons My guess is you might see Melvin try to buy out one year of FA either this year or next, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Hardy gone by 2010.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Are the Cubs really going to sit on Marmol as a RP? I know he has value there, but why keep him in the 'pen? They tried him for 13 starts in MLB in 2006, and he didn't fare well, but are they basing their assessment off of those 77-ish IP? His struggles in 2006 included BB, K, & HR rates way out of whack with the rest of his career's work. I fail to see how Marmol in the bullpen has greater value than Marmol in the starting rotation. I know they have some decent SP, but I don't see 5 that could necessarily beat out Marmol.

[logan82]

Leave Marmol in the pen. In fact make him the closer. Whatever makes the Cubs worse.

[Thurston Fluff]

Are the Cubs really going to sit on Marmol as a RP? I know he has value there, but why keep him in the 'pen? They tried him for 13 starts in MLB in 2006, and he didn't fare well, but are they basing their assessment off of those 77-ish IP? His struggles in 2006 included BB, K, & HR rates way out of whack with the rest of his career's work. I fail to see how Marmol in the bullpen has greater value than Marmol in the starting rotation. I know they have some decent SP, but I don't see 5 that could necessarily beat out Marmol.

 

he hasn't logged all that many innings in the last two years. In 06 he had around 60 or so minor league innings and this year was in a relief role. I don't know what he did earlier but I don't know if he's stretched out enough to log 160+ innings at his age. His numbers didn't look bad but that is hard to tell with so few innings. Anyone know where I can find his complete minor league history?

[brewswinga2]

Marmol Stats

Last year was only Marmol's fifth year as a pitcher. He was signed as a catcher/outfielder and was converted to a pitcher because he couldn't hit very well. So in that regard his arm is very little mileage on it, but it looks like he has what it takes to be an elite closer for years to come.

[Thurston Fluff]

Thanks Brewswing he had one year over 150 innings early in his career so it owuld be a risk of sorts to add to heavy a workload but he seemed to do well at every stop but didn't log that many games or innings. Was he injured for some of that time?

[brewswinga2]

Actually it breaks up the years into all the levels he pitched at that year so if you add them up he pitched:

 

2003: 64.1 IP (First Full Year)

2004: 154.2 IP

2005: 153.2 IP

2006: 138 IP (Shut down because of shoulder tightness)

2007: 110 (Setup Role)

 

So basically every year he's logged a significant amount of innings.

[TooLiveBrew]

He's young, with low mileage on his arm, and very effective. That screams SP to me - but as logan said, let's hope he's slotted at 'Closer.' [insert Kyra Sedgwick joke here]