okay, screw pitching

[DHonks]

With Cordero and Linebrink gone, I think we should try to piece together a pen with cheap, solid relievers. But I now think we should shift focus to the Indians/A's/Rockies models of the 90s and try to just pound other teams.

 

I'd like the Crew to spend the money to lock up Fielder for 5-7 years, and extend Sheets for 4 more years. Then I want them to trade for Carlos Quentin, going into 2008 with a LF platoon (not a strict platoon) of Quentin and Gross.

 

If we could trade for a young closer, I'd happily try to land Chad Cordero, Huston Street, or even Kerry Wood or Rich Harden to close

[brettac1]

With Cordero and Linebrink gone, I think we should try to piece together a pen with cheap, solid relievers. But I now think we should shift focus to the Indians/A's/Rockies models of the 90s and try to just pound other teams.

 

Yeah, this is basically what I've been wanting them to do for a long time. With the young talent, they definitely resemble those Cleveland teams.

[DHonks]

also, I wonder what package we could piece together for Cabrera. I don't care who plays 3b...but that'd be a mighty middle of the order.

[paul253]

With all of the blown leads last season, I don't think there's any way that they can ignore the pen. If they hadn't blown so many 3 run leads last year, they would have been in the playoffs. Yeah you can try to add even more offense, but where are you going to add it? If they want offense, they need to move Braun to left, Hall to third, and find someone in center who can get on base. Offense wasn't the problem last year, and it won't be next year either.

[pogokat]

if they'd been winning by six, they could have blown 3 runs a lot less eventfully

[brettac1]

Honestly, I think that three run lead thing is a fluke. There have been far worse bullpens than the Brewers had last year that weren't able to blow that many big leads, I don't think it will be nearly as bad, even with the subtractions thus far. I'm not saying it will be a strength of the team, but I don't think it will be the death of them, either.

[JohnBriggs12]

The 1979 Brewers won 95 games with a total of 23 (that's right 23) saves led by current Brewer bullpen coach Bill Castro's 6. Dhonks has a point.

[Manty1]

I am interested to see what the plan is now. Do they go with Turnbow in the closers role now? How about Bush as the closer?

[molitor fan]

The 1979 Brewers won 95 games with a total of 23 (that's right 23) saves led by current Brewer bullpen coach Bill Castro's 6. Dhonks has a point.

The Brewers of 79 also had 61 complete games that year, whereas the Brewers have had a combined 62 complete games over the last 13 years (95-07). Comparing complete games and saves over those two eras just doesn't work.

[Fatter than Joey]

The 1979 Brewers won 95 games with a total of 23 (that's right 23) saves led by current Brewer bullpen coach Bill Castro's 6. Dhonks has a point.

 

The 1979 Brewers had a good rotation -- leading the AL wth 61 complete games. I am not sure a comparison is apt.

[fondybrewfan]

Well heck if we were going to spend $12 million on CoCo why dont we just pitch in an extra 8 million a year and trade Ben Sheets, Rickie Weeks, Manny Parra, and Darren Ford to the Twins for Santana and then give Santana a 6 year deal at 20 million per? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[paul253]

Honestly, I think that three run lead thing is a fluke

 

Fluke or not, it cost us the playoffs. When you need to improve, I guess they're are two schools of thought. Make your strengths even stronger, or fix your weaknesses. The offense will be fine next year. Though Hart and Fielder may not match their performance of this year, I don't think there's any way Weeks or Hall can have as bad a year as they did last year. They freed up a lot of money by not resigning Jenkins, Cordero or Linebrink, so why not use the money to fix your problem? Mota and whoever they may get by trading Vargas and/or Capuano isn't going to cut it.

[joshjs]

Fluke or not, it cost us the playoffs.

 

You could just as easily say we didn't make the playoffs because of the handful of games when we didn't score a lot of runs. Or because of the games in which the starter gave up five or six runs. The bullpen is not (solely) to blame.

 

I don't think a GM needs to pick one of your schools of thought. I think the goal should be to improve where possible, regardless of whether said improvement is in an area of great weakness or relative strength. It's still an improvement.

 

I'll grant you that there's more room for improvement in areas of weakness, though. And fans will surely gripe about weaknesses more.

[Oldcity]

This is looking more and more sensible. AL ball in the NL. I could dig it.

[Team Canada]

We need to make that Atlanta trade happen.

[MoneyballMan]

The 1979 Brewers won 95 games with a total of 23 (that's right 23) saves led by current Brewer bullpen coach Bill Castro's 6. Dhonks has a point.

The Brewers of 79 also had 61 complete games that year, whereas the Brewers have had a combined 62 complete games over the last 13 years (95-07). Comparing complete games and saves over those two eras just doesn't work.

You guys all beat me to this. I also wonder how many innings each of the starters pitched that year. Completely different era.

[MoneyballMan]

We need to make that Atlanta trade happen.

Yep.

[molitor fan]

Just wanted to reference the amazing baseball-reference.com site. This page shows that all 5 Brewer starters that year (79) had at least 184 innings pitched.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1979.shtml

[BritInWI]

The 1979 Brewers won 95 games with a total of 23 (that's right 23) saves led by current Brewer bullpen coach Bill Castro's 6. Dhonks has a point.

 

The 1979 Brewers had a good rotation -- leading the AL wth 61 complete games. I am not sure a comparison is apt.

I think that a comparison is apt, just not the one made.

Everyone is talking about upgrading the bullpen, but perhaps the more important improvement would be in the rotation. If the Brewers starters didn't get hurt, melt down or otherwise disappoint last season, the bullpen wouldn't have had to pitch nearly as many innings and would likely have performed much better overall.

 

With the 1979 team, as you've all pointed out - 61 complete games. Had this team come even close to that, we wouldn't be having this bullpen discussion now.

 

[DHonks]

so Cabrera plays little defense.......but what would it take to land him? I know the Marlins have been looking for a high OBP leadoff man, since they've tried several players the last few years. My question is if we can build a package without Braun, Hart, or Gallardo. Too bad we don't have Inman to deal. Maybe we could deal them:

Gwynn, a utility man like Nelson/Rottino, Gillespie, Escobar/Irribaren, Katin, and 2 pitchers like Hammond, Dillard, Jackson, etc.

[TCSM]

If I'm Florida I stay away from this trade for 2 reasons. It's a quantity verses quality trade, no one really jumps out to you. Secondly, Gwynn and maybe Jackson seem to be the closest to MLB ready. One would think they'd want better talent to throw out there on opening day then those two.

[wallus]

I would only offer them Gwynn and Parra for Cabrera. I think we all underestimate how dominant Parra could be very soon and he would be the centerpiece of the deal.