Cordero to Reds; 4 years, $46 million

[Team Canada]

Except when the Reds next play in Milwaukee, we should all plan to bring cloth bags marked with a dollar sign (fill them up with whatever - peanuts, brat wrappers, $5 player tees - whatever will make the bags look plump and full of cash), and silently hold them up en masse when their big money closer takes the field.

 

That's an awesome idea that we need to make happen. Although hopefully he never has a chance to take the field. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[TerraceReserved]

I also said Vargas but I am not kidding. There is nobody on this roster that pitches so well with runners on base. He shows over and over again that he can get out of Jams. I think that until you give the guy a chance, you shouldnt put the idea down. Vargas, A.K.A. Magic Man, as a closer really is the answer.

 

Vargas pitching out of jams was simply luck in the beginning of the year, and as the season progressed letting so many people get on base bit him in the butt.

 

True, he had good K rates, but he walks and gives up HR way too often to be effective. He's just not a very good pitcher, and if Melvin even considers giving him the closer role all trust in the Moustache would be gone.

[Ennder]

I wouldnt' sell McClung so short by calling him a terrible pitcher. He was in a situation with TB that is hard to be successful in. He is only 27 years old and has had some success now.

 

Last year for the Brewers he had 8.4 K/9 and 3.8 BB/9. If he can drive those BB's down even a little bit he'll be an effective RP. Like many guys he has had control problems in his career so I don't want him sitting as our closer, but guys like that can becomes good RP's. He is a good throw it at the wall and see if it sticks type of guy.

[homer]

He went to a competitor for roughly 10% more money. I did the same thing last summer. Maybe he's not as personally invested in the Brewers success as we are. I can't fault a guy for leaving for more money.

[splitterpfj]

Closers can be made, closers can be reborn - look at Doug Jones, Todd Jones and Jose Mesa - how many times were all three careers over?

 

Teams also do stupid things trying to fill the closer spot - how about Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb?

 

On the other hand, how about Joe Nathan, plus two more guys for one year at catcher?

 

Patience, Grasshopper.

[Weirdos19]

Coco was about an average closer during the second half of 2007. If he was better than average, it wasn't by much. He blew all of his saves in the last four months.

 

Our whole bullpen was great the first two months. Coco was just the last one to pitch.

 

My in house idea for a closer? Manny Parra. I think he would be terrific in the closer role. Although, I think Dougie will be making a move for a closer. Jenks or Nathan would be ideal.

[Weirdos19]

Remember, Coco's road ERA was over 6 last year. His ERA in Cinci was 5.4.

 

 

Should be interesting.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I really don't get the hate towards a guy for taking (as someone else pointed out) 4 MILLION more dollars. We talk about these figures in casual terms, because (I'm assuming) to the vast majority of us here, 4 million is probably more than we'll make in a lifetime, let alone be the *difference* between 2 contract offers.

 

Of course it's about the money. I imagine most people don't go to work because they LOVE working, it's because they want/need the money that allows them to pay bills and enjoy creature comforts.

 

It's not like CoCo was a long time Milwaukee player or resident. He was here for just less than a season and a half. Of course he said he'd like to come back, that's what just about every player does, and it's also what just about every team says regarding their potential free agents-to-be.

 

Take sacks with dollar signs on it to the stadium? I'm all for booing and such, but I'm sorry, that's pretty tacky, in my opinion.

[I Heart Brewers]

I understand it seems like $4 million is a minor gap in salary at that level but it's nearly a 9% increase over the Brewers offer. I would assume most at there jobs would go to a competitor asking you to do the same job for that type of salary increase. I understand that 'winning' should trump money, but in the end, this still a job for these guys. They say they want to win, but in reality money wins. Who is to say Coco couldn't get traded to a contender at the trading deadline in an upcoming season anyway if the Reds aren't competitive? There is always that option for him. You can't blame him for taking the money if that is his MO.

[I Heart Brewers]

Or exactly what RoCoBrewfan just said...

[adambr2]

I really don't get the hate towards a guy for taking (as someone else pointed out) 4 MILLION more dollars. We talk about these figures in casual terms, because (I'm assuming) to the vast majority of us here, 4 million is probably more than we'll make in a lifetime, let alone be the *difference* between 2 contract offers.

 

Of course it's about the money. I imagine most people don't go to work because they LOVE working, it's because they want/need the money that allows them to pay bills and enjoy creature comforts.

 

It's not like CoCo was a long time Milwaukee player or resident. He was here for just less than a season and a half. Of course he said he'd like to come back, that's what just about every player does, and it's also what just about every team says regarding their potential free agents-to-be.

 

Take sacks with dollar signs on it to the stadium? I'm all for booing and such, but I'm sorry, that's pretty tacky, in my opinion.

 

Carlos Lee leaving for 6 years, 100 million vs. our 4 years, $48 million is understandable.

 

I know $4 million is a lot in our terms, but in long-term contracts of this magnitude, it was a very marginal difference. Melvin didn't even get the chance to match the offer, Cordero was already out the door and they wouldn't even tell Melvin was Cincy was bidding.

 

The bottom line is that Cordero didn't have an invested interested in sticking around. I say good riddance to him. I hope he turns out to be garbage in Cincy.

[dadofandrew]

Cordero did his time and was a free agent. Taking the most money is a viable option, and one many would follow. Maybe he didn't like being asked to warm up so much in the 8th inning? Dozens of things may have weighed into his decision. Good luck to him.

[RyDogg66]

The difference between making $65,000 a year and making $4,065,000 is huge. The difference between making 10.5 million in a year and 11.5 million in a year is very small when it comes to your living expenses/lifestyle.

[dpapo]

I think losing Cordero could be a big loss, depending on how Melvin is able to replace him. It sounds like Melvin considered it a big loss and seemed somewhat surprised. I think the Brewers offered him a fair deal and Cordero took the most money on the table. Most players take the deal with the most money.
What I care about now is what are the Brewers going to do to replace Cordero. I'm sure Melvin would look into what it would take to get either Nathan or Chad Cordero or Fuentes. However, the following doesn't sound too promising, "Melvin said he would explore trade opportunities to find another closer but indicated that teams always want a significant return for that commodity."
So they may end up trading one of their starters for someone who either hasn't closed before or didn't close a year ago for whatever reason. I think the following comments by Melvin sort of follow along those lines,
"There are different levels of closers," Melvin said. "I don't sit here and think I can be a genie and pull one out of the bottle. But I have always been a big believer that a lot of guys can close 30 games. It's the next 15 that are the tough ones."
And I really don't have much confidence in Turnbow as the closer. He's got the stuff, but too many meltdowns along with letting 14 of 16 inherited runners score.
It may also allow the Brewers to spend a bit more on a leftfielder/3rd baseman. Maybe sign someone like a Luis Gonzalez to a 1 or 2 year deal. He's not the player he use to be and doesn't have much of an arm anymore, but as a short term option he's always had a pretty good OBP and still has some power. I'm sure there are other options that may work well in the short term either as a free agent or someone they wouldn't have to give up a ton for if they are willing to eat a larger contract.
Maybe be willing to spend more on a David Riske or another bullpen arm that they have been hesitant to spend on. Not to close, but to help the overall depth of the bullpen.
I'm disappointed at how things have gone thus far, but I'm going to wait and see what happens before making up my mind about this off-season.

[Fatter than Joey]

Patience, Grasshopper.

 

This only has meaning when Ned tells me this.

 

The Brewers have lost their closer, which is clearly the most overrated position of the current era.

 

Regardless of how overrated a closer is, our BP is a trainwreck as it stands today -- and

I think that is where some of the nervousness is coming from. It's not as if we are one pitcher

away from a solid BP -- DM has some work to do.

[Brian the Automator]

The difference between making 10.5 million in a year and 11.5 million in a year is very small when it comes to your living expenses/lifestyle.

If you have no children and plan on doing nothing charitable with your money, yes.

 

[Fatter than Joey]

The difference between making 10.5 million in a year and 11.5 million in a year is very small when it comes to your living expenses/lifestyle.

 

The GDP per capita in the DR is about $3500 per year -- 4 million dollars could help a lot of his family and friends out.

 

I can't believe he is being criticized for not leaving 4 million on the table.

[wallus]

I would rather have left the 4 million on the table and play for a much better team. The Reds for all intensive purposes stink, not to mention they play in a stadium that gives up a ton of runs. I can't believe he would take that deal to probably disappoint the fans later and most likely get booed.

[PeaveyFury]

I think the problem is his garbage about wanting to stay in Milwaukee- if he really wanted to stay, he'd have given them the chance to match the deal. As it was, they didn't even tell the Brewers how close they actually were, and that means he had no intention of staying in Milwaukee.

[Blazer25]

If you're judging success by just World Series titles, you're really setting yourself up for disappointment.

And if the only way you look to set up a MLB team is by the Moneyball model you're also setting yourself up for the same dissapointment.

 

Not to mention Moneyball teams have begun to draft college closers in the past few years and that screams the exact opposite of the, "closers are made and not born" idea

 

 

 

Am I the only one that thinks closers are a dime a dozen? Sure an established closer is going to cost huge money but great new closers are created each year...(re: Turnbow 2005) Sure, I'm being way too positive but it's much better then giving 40+ Million to a guy that is going to tank two years into his four year contract. I just think it's pretty easy to find a guy that does half as good as Coco at a 3/4 of his contact.

 

Why would you want to settle for a guy half as good as our best relief pitcher? That screams "settle for mediocrity because it's cheaper!" which is the way the Brewers of old have operated. I realize small market teams have to make choices and budget their resources but letting your two best BP arms go is never a good plan especially when the BP was the weak spot on your team last year.

 

It's actually a pretty good way to waste your young players' cheap years and lose a bunch of games you should win.

 

[brettac1]

I think the problem is his garbage about wanting to stay in Milwaukee- if he really wanted to stay, he'd have given them the chance to match the deal. As it was, they didn't even tell the Brewers how close they actually were, and that means he had no intention of staying in Milwaukee.

 

I think the problem is people taking what a pending free agent says in his walk year seriously. It's all about leverage in that situation, and no one even says "yeah, I'm not sure I'll be back", because no one wants to get the "not a team player" tag.

 

I also think what's sort of being missed RE: the $4 million is that these guys aren't working until they're 65 or whatever. They have extremely short careers, and this is likely Cordero's one big contract, he'd be stupid to turn it down.

[Fatter than Joey]

I think the problem is his garbage about wanting to stay in Milwaukee

 

90% of what comes out of DM's mouth is garbage -- and we seem to understand why he does what he does.

 

Cordero is no different. He is going to get his biggest paycheck by making the Reds think he would come back to the Brewers.

 

It's all song and dance, and DM should know what is transpiring.

[PeaveyFury]

He is going to get his biggest paycheck by making the Reds think he would come back to the Brewers.

 

Well, sure. But if you really have any interest in going back to your team, you actually tell them what you've been offered, not cloud it with secrecy. Cordero had no interest in letting Milwaukee match that offer. Heck, if it was all about a negotiating ploy, he would have seen if the Brewers would match, then come back to the Reds to see if he could have gotten more. But it appears that he didn't want to take the chance that the Brewers would actually match or surpass the offer.

[Mass Haas]

But if you really have any interest in going back to your team, you actually tell them what you've been offered, not cloud it with secrecy. Cordero had no interest in letting Milwaukee match that offer.

With the Reds knowing Cordero's earlier comments about being happy in Milwaukee, it'd be no surprise to find out that Cordero and Stringfellow had a very small window to accept the Reds' latest (and probably final) offer. Most organizations don't want to be played, one offer against another, and with the Reds not being rumored to be in the Cordero mix until the end, this was probably the case. Meaning that's why the Brewers and Melvin didn't get a chance to match. Pretty common, actually.

[RyDogg66]

The difference between making 10.5 million in a year and 11.5 million in a year is very small when it comes to your living expenses/lifestyle.

 

The GDP per capita in the DR is about $3500 per year -- 4 million dollars could help a lot of his family and friends out.

 

I can't believe he is being criticized for not leaving 4 million on the table.

You guys are kind of taking what I said out of context. My statement was:

 

 

The difference between making $65,000 a year and making $4,065,000 is huge. The difference between making 10.5 million in a year and 11.5 million in a year is very small when it comes to your living expenses/lifestyle.

 

 

What I meant to say was that when people say things like "4 million dollars changes your life," well, yeah, it does, especially when you are working paycheck to paycheck, trying to put kids through college and save for retirement. Like I said, over the course of 4 years, if an individual makes 65k a year, the difference between making 65k a year and 4.065 million a year is HUGE. So in that case 4 million dollars is a giant sum of money. I might say that I'd like to stay at my job for 65k a year because I like the people and the management, but Id HAVE to take the 4.065 million for the EXACT same job, because the difference in money and lifestyle is huge. COMPARATIVELY, if you are trying to pay the bills, put kids through college and save for retirement, the difference over four years making 10.5 million a year and 11.5 million a year is very small. Now, take that into consideration with Coco saying something like "I like it here and would prefer to stay" and you have another level added on.