Cordero to Reds; 4 years, $46 million

[And That]

Well, when we trade for Chad Cordero, new Cordero same as the old Cordero.

[colbyjack]

The Cubs won the division with Ryan Dempster as closer. The Indians won with Joe Borowski as their closer. If you have a good bullpen (like both teams did) then you can basically put anybody in their in the 9th inning with nobody on and a 1-3 run lead to get 3 outs.

 

I do agree with you and I do understand your point trwi7, but I'm not sure if this the argument I would take when a team that already had a shaky bullpen lost their two best relievers in a span of three days.

 

That still doesn't mean closers are overrated however. You look at the majority of the best teams in baseball and most of them have a knock-out closer. There's always an exception to the rule, but those exceptions don't constitute something being over or underrated.

 

If the Brewers are serious about the playoffs in 2008 and beyond, they better be equally serious about finding a dang good closer. Again, I don't doubt they will be, but I reserve the right to be skeptical, and this is coming from a guy who has been yearning for extra, early draft picks for years.

[And That]

If the Brewers are serious about the playoffs in 2008 and beyond, they better be equally serious about finding a dang good closer. Again, I don't doubt they will be, but I reserve the right to be skeptical, and this is coming from a guy who has been yearning for extra, early draft picks for years.

There are enough good relief pitchers to be had via trade that I don't think it'll be all that hard to find a new closer. Whether they are willing to give up the pieces needed to get a potentially premier guy is another question, but they could make strong pushes for Chad Cordero or Joe Nathan, amongst others.

 

[ILuvDaBush]

So who would everyone rather have, Jeff Suppan or Coco? Umm...Benny for the next 5 please.

[logan82]

I do agree with you and I do understand your point trwi7, but I'm not sure if this the argument I would take when a team that already had a shaky bullpen lost their two best relievers in a span of three days.

I wouldn't count Linebrink as one of our 2 best relievers. Yeah we lost depth and losing both hurts, but we have guys better than Linebrink, and cheaper.

[chadomac]

I do agree with you and I do understand your point trwi7, but I'm not sure if this the argument I would take when a team that already had a shaky bullpen lost their two best relievers in a span of three days.

I wouldn't count Linebrink as one of our 2 best relievers. Yeah we lost depth and losing both hurts, but we have guys better than Linebrink, and cheaper.

Who? I would agree that Linebrink was our second best relief pitcher. I also think that's it's good that we let Cordero go. He isn't worth that type of money to us and I don't see him being as good as he is right now for much longer. Just a hunch but I see his effectiveness going down quite a bit within about 1 more season. Relief pitching is so unpredictable, though.

 

[Mr QL]

The closer BETTER not be on the roster right now. This is just horrible. Ugh...

[brewers255]

Cordero is a greedy punk. Not that I wouldn't do the same but still. He says he has loyalty, if he has "sincere desire" to rejoin Milwaukee but yet he signs with a divison rival, he takes 1 million less per year to go to an organazation that had like 70 wins, not only that he doesnt even give the brewers the last effort to make a better offer even though he wouldn't be anywhere near the contract he would get if the brewers wouldn't have traded for him. Melvin asked if there was a better offer and they said yes. He had a 6 ERA on the road as well.Good luck Cordero but I am gonna boo when you return to Miller Park. This is just plain ridculous how players these days don't even care about loyalty they just care about the money.

[Bert55]

Bring on Fireballer Seth McClung.....

[fleehaw]

This is just plain ridculous how players these days don't even care about loyalty they just care about the money.

Well, Geoff Jenkins showed some loyalty re-signing with the Brewers a few years back. Look how he was treated. Bottom line is, it's a business and it can cut both ways.

 

[saget]

I was listening on 620AM WTMJ and what's his face brought up the possibility that Coco didn't like the way he was used this year.

 

He said he felt like he got overworked early in the season. I don't know if he had any sources or if he just said it to be stupid, but there it is.

[chadomac]

Well, we won 24 of our first 34 games. So yeah I can see how he might pitch more early in the season.

[Bert55]

Good reason to sign with the Reds.....They don't have the horse's the Brewers have and won't use CoCo as much.....Guy's, it's no big deal Cordero is gone.....I trust Doug has a plan.....

 

Changing sports....Everyone was irrate when Ted Thompson did not pull the trigger on Randy Moss......I think the Packers/Ted did OK.

[logan82]

Who? I would agree that Linebrink was our second best relief pitcher. I also think that's it's good that we let Cordero go. He isn't worth that type of money to us and I don't see him being as good as he is right now for much longer. Just a hunch but I see his effectiveness going down quite a bit within about 1 more season. Relief pitching is so unpredictable, though.

Turnbow and Shouse, even though Shouse is only a LOOGY.

[Mr QL]

Good reason to sign with the Reds.....They don't have the horse's the Brewers have and won't use CoCo as much.....Guy's, it's no big deal Cordero is gone.....I trust Doug has a plan.....

 

Changing sports....Everyone was irrate when Ted Thompson did not pull the trigger on Randy Moss......I think the Packers/Ted did OK.

Moss is on pace for a record setting year and is the most dominant football player in the league. We didn't do ok there. Packers have done well despite but who knows how good we would of been with Moss. I guarantee you it wouldn't be worse. I'm still "irate" about that.

 

This is a big deal. Our bullpen is easily the worst in baseball right now. I don't see us having any chance at even competing for the playoffs with Turnbow, Mota, or McClung closing. I sure hope Melvin has a good plan because alot needs to be done. Melvin has been laying alot of eggs lately.

 

[Oldcity]

I must have missed the MLB rule changing Opening Day to December 1. Clearly that's the only way people can be upset that the Brewers "have the worst bullpen."

 

The Winter Meetings haven't even started yet. There are going to be different and better pitchers in the bullpen on opening day then there currently are. At least wait and see what they do before poo-pooing.

[yoshii8]

Well I'm glad we aren't paying Coco that much money, but I'm sort of nervous about our options. I hope that we are able to get someone like Fuentes , Nathan, or Chad Cordero, but I think it is going to take a lot to get them.

 

Now I'm really hoping we take that huge contract we offered Coco, and turn it into a high impact player for us.

[trwi7]

I must have missed the MLB rule changing Opening Day to December 1. Clearly that's the only way people can be upset that the Brewers "have the worst bullpen."

 

The Winter Meetings haven't even started yet. There are going to be different and better pitchers in the bullpen on opening day then there currently are. At least wait and see what they do before poo-pooing.

 

Thank you. That's what I'm trying to tell everybody over on another board. It's November, we still have time to make moves. I don't like how the bullpen looks now but I'm going to wait and see what other moves we make before I go saying we have the worst bullpen in the majors and how we're not going to win anything.

[monty57]

In the article, Melvin didn't sound too optimistic about picking up a replacement via trade of free agency. I hope that was just more of Melvin's patented double-speak, because Turnbow scares me.

 

For those who believe no closer is worth that type of money, get used to it. Yes, it is a lot of money for small- to mid-market teams, but the bar has now been set. Established closers are going to get paid $10MM+, so the option will either be to pay that price or continue to try to develop young closers and let them walk as free agents. Both have risks.

 

Honestly, I just really dislike the current state of the 'pen. Does anyone know who is a Type A free agent or is that just something the GM's are told? I'd hate to lose Cordero and get a 2nd rounder and then sign a lesser Type A free agent and lose our 1st rounder. We'd have a worse pen and worse picks. However, since Cordero's already gone, we may need to do it.

 

I hope Doug is able to pull out a trade to make this better. I still believe we have some valuable trading chips, and starting pitching is still more valuable than relief pitching, so Bush/Capuano/Vargas ought to net us something. They may be our answer in the 'pen, but I believe they have more value in a trade to a team that needs a starter than they do as a reliever. In other words, we may be able to land a LF and two or three relivers for two of Bush/Capuano/Vargas and maybe a prospect or two.

[colbyjack]

Since a few people have brough it up, if the team's next closer is indeed on the current roster, I hope it's Carlos Villanueva. He proved his worth in the 'pen last year, and his numbers so far show that he's pretty dang good the first time through the batting order. I know he had a rough spell last year before being sent back down, and I also recognize that his pure stuff isn't ideal for the prototypical closer's role, but I just think he could thrive in such a role, even if I do prefer him as a starter.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I know a few others have mentioned this name (and this is not the best idea, I know, but it IS an option), but Dave Bush is a guy I could see given the opportunity.

 

For one thing, he doesn't walk many batters at all. When you're protecting a 1 to 3 run lead, minimizing base runners is obviously important. I believe in college (someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that he closed, at least one season. I know college is a far cry from MLB, but that would at least be a guy with the knowledge of the mindset of the closer. I know that sounds silly, but I think that there's just some guys who don't deal as well in high pressure situations.

 

Bush has good stuff, not great, but I think given only one (or even 2) innings to work, he'd put up close to the acceptable 85% close rate that's been cited here.

[bjkrautk]

It's done.

 

Much like the player who paid his acquisition cost, I've always kind-of thought of Cordero as a rental. The Brewers already had to re-vamp their bullpen; that hasn't changed. Francisco was never really an option at an open-market price.

 

There are some things that could greatly aid the 'pen, including using Parra in Carlos V's role to start '08 & a bounce-back year from Matt Wise, Turnbow, and maybe even Mota.

They're going to have to find some new arms, but that's hardly a surprise. (I like some of the names I've heard here - ChaCo, Fuentes....I'd even say Kerry Wood if handled with care. Just to put it out there, I thing Villanueva would make an excellent closer.)

 

Closers are made, not born. (Doesn't anybody remember Moneyball?) I've said it before: the only difference between Turnbow and CoCo was a slight difference in control and confidence. (They're both two pitch pitchers who get into trouble when opposing hitters lay off their sharp breaking balls -- that they can't throw for strikes with regularity.) The main reason Cordero was a Brewer to begin with is that he started walking guys more often, blew a few saves, and lost his closer's position; who's to say that won't happen again?

 

DM needs to get good relievers - plural - and make one of them into our next closer. That's been the goal the whole time. Once Cordero hit the open market, he stopped being someone we could count on in '08; he was just one relief option that fell through.

 

(Edit: I see Colby beat me to the punch with the 'Carlos V. as closer' idea. Curse my slow, deliberate typing.)

[Mr QL]

You must of missed the part where I said right now. Also, if one of Mota, Turnbow, or McClung are closing, we won't be competing. That's not "poo-pooing", it's a fact. I'm not a fan of turning one of our starters into a closer either. I think there's a more than good chance Turnbow is back closing.

[logan82]

Why do so many people want to take our best relief option and make him the closer? As for Villanueva, why do we want to limit a good pitcher to 60-70 innings when we have a chance to get 200 out of him?

[colbyjack]

(Edit: I see Colby beat me to the punch with the 'Carlos V. as closer' idea. Curse my slow, deliberate typing.)

 

Great minds think alike, right?

 

One thing I don't like about Bush as the team's closer is that he really hasn't had much success in the closers role, nor has he had much success his first time through the order. The guy's best innings are the 3rd and 4th, usually a sign that he's better when he makes it that far in a game. I realize Bush closed in college, and that he has been used sparingly (and in some weird situations) out of the bullpen in the big-leagues, but again, the numbers just don't support the move.

 

Villanueva on the other hand, despite having a better ERA in the rotation as opposed to the bullpen, has been more effective getting outs in his stints coming out of the 'pen, and has been very good his first time through the order.

 

Not to be overly critical, but if all else fails, I just hope Melvin is open to this kind of out-of-the-box thinking when addressing his 2008 team. Not that Villy in the closer role is that crazy, but it just seems that Melvin thinks that he needs the prototypical power arm in that role.