Cordero to Reds; 4 years, $46 million

[aracko]

I think Parra has a Billy Wagner type fastball .

Parra can throw 100mph?

 

In fairness - neiher does Wagner anymore. He still brings a ton of heat from the left though. I think thats the point the poster was trying to make. I personally believe its Wagners slider that makes his fastball as effective as it seems to be, which also is a nice pitch of Mannys.

 

I feel like the comparison is a fair one, I just do not think Parra has the rubber arm that the games top closers have. But some say its easier for a guy to throw 30 times 3 days in a row than 100 times once every 5.

[tigerbrew]

I think Parra has a Billy Wagner type fastball .

Parra can throw 100mph?

Billy Wagner pitch his fastball at 97mph, Parra can throw 97mph too.

[patrickgpe]

I agree on Bush that he may be the best option to close of everyone presently on the staff. I think the better alternative would be to trade a starter for a proven reliever.

[Team Canada]

For some reason I didn't think Parra could throw that hard. My bad.

[And That]

Parra is an interesting thought, though similarly to Sheets, there seemed to be an issue with him getting warmed up slowly last season. Actually the main reason I don't think he'll be the closer is that he'll be a starter in spring training, and by the time they figure out whether or not he'll make the big league rotation, they'll already have a closer in place. I'm warming to the idea, tho.

[JJHardy7]

I could see Parra become a closer later in his career. I'd imagine that the Brewers would like him to have some consistent pitching (ie every 5 days) this year. It seemed that the Brewers tried to limit his innings last year (I know he's a few years removed form surgery, but they're being cautious). Does anyone know or heard if he'll be off any limitations?

 

If Parra would have some arm problems (I really think he'll be in the clear), a move to the bullpen permanently may happen.

[homer]

I don't think Parra reaches 97 consistently. He may have hit it once in the minors - actually I seem to recall that in one of the game notes from this season - but he probably tops out at 95. Still not shabby.

[1e Corbeau]

From a discussion going on at the Minor League side (BA Top Porspects Lists):

 

Parra: If he doesn't crack the big-league rotation, don't be surprised if he's sent back to AAA for regular work. [paraphrased BA comment]

So, sounds like the front office continues to view Parra as a starting pitcher, if this info is not just speculation.

[And That]

Parra pitched ~133 innings altogether last season, so I assume the Brewers won't have him pitch much more than 160 innings next year. The most he's ever pitched professionally in a single season was 139 innings, but that was in 2003.

[And That]

I don't think Parra reaches 97 consistently. He may have hit it once in the minors - actually I seem to recall that in one of the game notes from this season - but he probably tops out at 95. Still not shabby.

If he was converted to relief full time, he might be able to find another MPH or two on his fastball, so I think that's where the 97 MPH figure comes from. With his stuff and command, Manny is closer material, but he's also starting material, so he'll stay there until he can't.

 

[splitterpfj]

Paraphrasing...

 

Cordero will add two wins to the Reds this year.

 

Their bullpen is still not strong, but is obviously better than it had been.

 

Too much money, 4th year a disaster in almost all free agent - reliever contracts, even three years often buys one bad one.

 

Cordero's HR rate could spike in that ballpark.

 

Percentage of total payroll tied up in Cordero is bad ugly.

 

-Keith Law, ESPN

[JET15]

Squawking Baseball has a good litmus test for free agent signings and Coco's deal does not pass.

 

---

"Being a power reliever, Cordero fails 2, 3, and 4 almost by default. As we've said, relievers can be found and/or made. Using valuable resources on one, particularly when your team is not likely to contend, is a waste. I won't even run Scott Linebrink through these tests."

---

[pogokat]

i think parra will be in villy's role from last year...it will limit his inningsa and it will give us a fantastic swiss army knife in the bullpen...

 

in a way, i'm glad it took manny so long to make it to the majors...now we are going to have him for an extended period of competetiv baseball instead of him hitting arby next year like hardy

[JohnBriggs12]

Bush should be able to add 2-3 mph to his fastball out of the pen. But what bothers me is his 8.10 ERA in the first inning of his starts last year. Vargas too had bad first inning numbers: 7.94 ERA. Bush's number one problem is that he gets too much of the plate at times. That can happen any time but with him it usually happens early or late.

 

On the other hand, Suppan was usually sharp in the opening inning, (3.44). In fact, thinking way out of the box, I kind of like a steady level headed veteran like Suppan out there with the game on the line in the 9th. It's not ideal, but given the depth in the starting rotation and the lack of it at end of games, I think it's worth a try.

[Thurston Fluff]

I don't know how good the first inning performance for a starter is in determining his value as a reliever. Starters need to establish all their pitches which means they need to continue using a pitch that may not be working right away. Many times the third or fourth best pich doesn't even get used in a one inning relief role. In relief if one pitch isn't working there is no incentive to keep using it that day. As a starter that might actually be reversed. Especially if the guy has average stuff like Bush does he needs all his pitches to work to be consitantly effective. If he can't locate one pitch he might try it a couple times early to get a feel for it. A guy with great stuff like Sheets might get away with a dominant pitch so for that type of guy maybe the first inning litmus test is a better indicator but for the average pitcher I don't think it's all that good.

[aracko]

On the other hand, Suppan was usually sharp in the opening inning, (3.44). In fact, thinking way out of the box, I kind of like a steady level headed veteran like Suppan out there with the game on the line in the 9th. It's not ideal, but given the depth in the starting rotation and the lack of it at end of games, I think it's worth a try.

 

This is one instance that I disagree. I think a certain amount of uncertainty is good in the 9th inning. Hitters are on edge, trying to make something happen. They are swinging more often than not. Thats why guys like Coco and Turnbow are generally good closers, because if they put everything over the plate, it would be a disaster. Hard stuff that leave less time for reaction is (to me) desirable in the closer/8th inning guy.

[TooLiveBrew]

"Cordero's HR rate could spike in that ballpark."

Could? I 'could' strike out every time I faced MLB pitching.

[endaround]

I just want to say that the Cordero deal makes the Lidge trade look even better for Philly.

[SoCalBrewfan]

Bush should be able to add 2-3 mph to his fastball out of the pen. But what bothers me is his 8.10 ERA in the first inning of his starts last year. Vargas too had bad first inning numbers: 7.94 ERA. Bush's number one problem is that he gets too much of the plate at times. That can happen any time but with him it usually happens early or late.

 

That's true, and it's something to think about, but at the same time, coming in to pitch one inning allows a different approach than starting and being expected to pitch six or seven innings. (Sadly, with Bush or Vargas, even that might be a stretch.) Bush sometimes seemed like he brought that bulldog closer mentality out there in the first inning ('hit it if you can'), but didn't have the stuff to back it up given that he needs to pace himself. For all that, he would still seem to fade quickly in the middle innings. With some added punch on the fastball maybe he can avoid the solid contact.

 

If I think of any of our starters as a potential closer, considering both the value they have as a starter and their seeming suitability as a closer, Vargas would be first in line, followed by Bush. (Sheets would be the best closer, I'm sure, but he's also got too much potential value in the rotation.) Vargas might be the seventh best starter on the team, so he wouldn't be a huge loss for the rotation. At the same time, his stuff seems like it could be potent in short relief, which would also minimize his apparent lack of stamina.

[TooLiveBrew]

Ok, so swap Cappy for Fuentes, slide Vargas down to the bullpen, and the situation looks better for 2008. If only it were that simple (and hoping it actually is)...

[fondybrewfan]

Sounds like Melvin and Attanasio are not all that happy with Cordero and or Cordero's agent...

 

Melvin leery of injury-plagued relievers

By Tom Haudricourt

Monday, Nov 26 2007, 06:18 PM

In need of a new closer after losing Francisco Cordero on the free-agent market to Cincinnati, Brewers general manager Doug Melvin said he has concerns about the injury histories of the three biggest names remaining -- Eric Gagne, Octavio Dotel and Troy Percival.

 

Melvin said he might take a risk on one of them if they'd take a one-year deal. But he said all of the relievers are looking for multi-year deals.

 

"All three guys have an injury history," said Melvin. "That makes the risk high, with the prices they're seeking."

 

I have more details on what Melvin has in mind on the relief front in a story in the JS tomorrow morning. Check it out.

 

As many of you responded on this blog site after the Cordero deal, you couldn't believe he would take $46 million from Cincinnati and not give the Brewers a chance to boost their $42 million offer. Melvin has been puzzled by that as well, and wonders if he offended Cordero and agent Bean Stringfellow by asking for an answer by Friday -- nine days after making his proposal.

 

"That might have ticked him off," said Melvin. "They had our offer for nine days. We thought that was enough time to give us an answer. We didn't want him shopping it around any longer than that."

 

If Cordero was offended by the deadline, why would he agree to a Reds by that date anyway? It's all very puzzling, and Stringfellow declined to elaborate when I asked him if he wanted to detail "the other factors" he cited in the decision.

 

It's my understanding that owner Mark Attanasio was very upset about the way those negotiations were handled at the end by the other side. He and Melvin thought their offer was competitive enough to be given a last chance to make it work.

 

It's more than a bit ironic that Cordero set the market for closers with the deal he took from Cincinnati and Scott Linebrink set the market for set-up men with his four-year, $19 million agreement with the Chicago White Sox.

 

"People talked about how bad our bullpen was at the end but we had two guys who set the market for their positions," said Melvin.

[TooLiveBrew]

Thanks for linking that, fondy.

 

I have more details on what Melvin has in mind on the relief front in a story in the JS tomorrow morning. Check it out.

Gah, I'm getting sick of reading that blurb from TH. So glib.

 

Confound you, Bean Strigfellow! Seriously though, nothing from how the Crew played it sounds underhanded (that is, if we're to believe everything we hear from them is honest). 9 days to ponder an offer? That sounds like more than enough time. Is it customary to make the deadline 2 weeks or something?

 

"People talked about how bad our bullpen was at the end but we had two guys who set the market for their positions," said Melvin.

 

Bad contracts now determine that players are good or bad? Giambi's an All-Star again! Mike Hampton can pitch again! Guillermo Mota is a good reliever! (ouch... that last one stung a bit too much to continue...)

[xisxisxis]

If Cordero was offended by the deadline, why would he agree to a Reds by that date anyway? It's all very puzzling, and Stringfellow declined to elaborate when I asked him if he wanted to detail "the other factors" he cited in the decision.

 

It's my understanding that owner Mark Attanasio was very upset about the way those negotiations were handled at the end by the other side. He and Melvin thought their offer was competitive enough to be given a last chance to make it work.

 

I'm coming into this discussion late, but something doesn't smell right about CoCo's decision. While I understand some of the arguments that $4M is a big amount of money. It would seem that the Brewers really didn't understand or weren't given the chance to match the Reds offer. I'd imagine that CoCo would at least want to go with a team he is familiar with and has a better talent pool if the money is pretty close. Given a chance to match the Reds, I do believe the Brewers might have gone the extra $1M per year more and not moved if he countered with another offer. I wonder if the comments that were mentioned earlier about CoCo not being happy with his early season usage has more to do with unhappiness with Maddux/Yost in general and it was put in a way so as not to call them out directly (not wanting to burn a bridge). Those "other factors" could be too inflammatory to come out and state directly. Too bad Milwaukee doesn't have a beat newspaper writer with any interest in a story. Either my imagination is running wild or there is something to those "other factors" that wouldn't look to good about at least one current Brewer official.

[TooLiveBrew]

Those "other factors" could be too inflammatory to come out and state directly. Too bad Milwaukee doesn't have a beat newspaper writer with any interest in a story. Either my imagination is running wild or there is something to those "other factors" that wouldn't look to good about at least one current Brewer official.

 

Well said, xis(etc.). If the bullpen usage is enough to drive a quality RP to a less talented team, in a pitcher-hatin' ballpark, for roughly equal money... I think we need to be even more seriously worried about the way in which our bullpen is handled.

[JohnBriggs12]

The 9th inning is a tough inning no doubt. But even though Suppan isn't a power pitcher, he has the ability to make a pitch when he needs to. That's how he's stayed around so long. Especially when his pitch count is still low as it would be out of the pen. Unlike a guy like Turnbow who starts flinching like Barney Fife on a hot date when a guy gets on first base, Suppan can still make pitches with runners on.