Linebrink to the White Sox

[twobrewers]

"That will work out great for us," said assistant general manager Gord Ash. "We'll get our first-round pick, a 'sandwich pick' after the first round, their second-round pick and our second-round pick. That gives us four high picks. We haven't had extra picks in the past."

Don't forget the picks we get if/when Cordero leaves. We could end up with two first round picks, two sandwich picks and two second round picks.

 

That would restock the farm system in a hurry!

[Invader3K]

Too bad the Brewers don't know how to draft...

 

 

 

 

Just kidding.

[brewcrewreview]

Sorry, I don't care about restocking the farm system. In fact, I could care less. That doesn't excite me in the least bit. What I care about is the Brewers winning the NL Central, the National League Championship, and the World Series, RIGHT NOW! I could care less about us getting a ton of draft picks. We got some great pieces in the majors right now and we all have waited long enough. The time to win in the majors is now!

[twobrewers]

What I care about is the Brewers winning the NL Central, the National League Championship, and the World Series, RIGHT NOW!

Not to pick on you too much, but that is why Doug is the GM.

 

Restocking the farm system is always a priority of a mid-market team. I would much rather have the Brewer competitive for the next 20 years, than loading up for one run - only to have to have a massive sell off (a la Florida Marlins) and sink back into despair.

 

Fact is, Gallardo, Prince, Weeks, Hart, Braun, Villanueva, Parra, LaPorta, Hall and Hardy are not going to all retire Brewers. We will need replacements. Not to mention that all of those players are still under contract for a few more years, if we draft college players with the extra picks - they could very well contribute to our current group as well.

 

I can't believe anyone would have liked the Brewers to pay Linebrink that much money.

[brewcrewreview]

I don't want to be competitive, yet keep missing the playoffs. I agree that Gallardo, Prince, Weeks, Hart, Braun, Villanueva, Parra, LaPorta, Hall and Hardy are not going to all retire Brewers. Which confirms my point even more than I want to win now while we have these guys in Brewer uniforms. Hard to believe all of these picks will be as good as Prince, Weeks, Braun, Fielder, and the like.

[Fatter than Joey]

I'd rather have Cordero than picks (assuming a workable contract), Linebrink I'd probably get picks -- esp. since our depth took a big hit to get him.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

I have consistently maintained that our playoff window is pretty narrow.

 

For whatever reasons, the Cardinals haven't reloaded so deftly as they always have been able to in the past. And for another mysterious reason, they haven't been able to close the deal by luring major free agent pitchers to their rotation lately. With Jocketty now gone, I hope and pray that what I considered to be a temporary lull in their operations will become a full-blown 3-5 year slide into the second division. But the Cardinals never DO go away, at least for any amount of time. So I fear they'll be back as a playoff team. Maybe not necessarily in 2008, but they just don't fall into significant downturns.

 

Same goes for the Astros. They're always good for a ROY contender their system develops every season, and Drayton McLane is always willing to spend a lot to bring in new talent.

 

And the Cubs never run out of money.

Before I go on, I have to reiterate that we should always place a significant priority on restocking our farm system.

 

But as Brewcrewreview states, it seems that Doug's decisions this winter are much more influenced on draft picks than usual. And I've got to wonder why now?

 

As I mentioned, the Cardinals are down for now. So are the Astros, but again, that can change given their ownerships. And the Cubs are very good these days.

 

But then again, in 2007 and 2008, so are we....for now.

 

That's why there should be at least more of an emphasis on taking advantage of our rare window of opportunity in the NL Central, instead of preferring Kendall over Barrett, because Kendall's signing does less damage to a future draft than a Barrett signing would. Linebrink was allowed to leave and Tor Johnson was quick to mention draft pick compensation right away:

 

"That will work out great for us," said assistant general manager Gord Ash. "We'll get our first-round pick, a 'sandwich pick' after the first round, their second-round pick and our second-round pick. That gives us four high picks. We haven't had extra picks in the past."

 

Can we expect the Brewers, again in a rare 1-2 year window when some of our major rivals are either temporarily underfunded, distracted, or slumbering like Sal Bando in his office in December, to place such a premium on future draft picks this winter? If so, we can forget seeing CoCoCo in a Brewer uniform ever again, because his compensatory pick will be high. Our front office seems so interested in the 4 (and soon probably 5, when Cordero leaves) high draft picks that it's influencing the pursuit of the 2008 pennant a bit, and that bothers me.

 

Could the loss of Linebrink, alone, be the difference between a decent season and a playoff berth? Of course not. But the loss of Linebrink, the probable loss of Cordero, the downgrade of settling for a Kendall over a Barrett/Ramon Hernandez/LoDuca, all DO.

 

Sure, those possible 5 draft picks look nice right now. But right off the bat, I expect 1 or even 2 to be...*shudder*...high school pitchers. So that's 1 or 2 who'll likely never pan out anyway. And even if the other 3 or 4 play well in the minors, it will take 3 or 4 years for them to develop. And even then, not all are guaranteed to become the next Braun or Fielder. And even if they do become serviceable or even good major leaguers in 2011 or so, you can bet the Astros, Cardinals, maybe even the Reds will return to winning baseball again. Ryan, Prince and Ben Sheets were such successful draft picks because they were in the top 5 or so, where it's tough to miss. And since we had an upper 15 winning percentage, the only comp picks we'll get this winter are either 2nd rounders from bad teams or late 1st rounders from good ones.

Again, I understand the need to restock your farm system, especially on a comparatively underfunded franchise.

 

But why, THIS winter, of all times, all of a sudden, does it seem to be priority #1?

[colbyjack]

I don't think re-stocking via the draft is priority #1. I'm not convinced the team went with Kendall over Barrett because it meant less as far as draft-pick compensation. Barrett has some legitimate defensive issues, not to mention some character issues after the Zambrano incident (regardless of who instigated that), and the team made it clear that they wanted a guy that would work well with the staff.

 

Linebrink almost seemed as good as gone as soon as the team traded for him, with Doug Melvin citing that he would likely be a Type A FA and would bring the team extra, early draft picks.

 

And keep in mind, the Brewers were putting immediate success #1 when they dealt for Linebrink, dealing three young, promising pitchers to get him.

 

Clearly the Brewers offseason is not complete, and so far the team's move have some obvious draft implications, but that doesn't mean they're planning for the 2008 draft in November on the FA and trade market.

 

I too agree that the team has a small window of opportunity, or at least it should be viewed that way even if this team is being built for the long term, and I hope Melvin continues to make some moves to make it seem as though the orgnaization is dead serious about making it to the playoffs and beyond. However, it is nice to see player development continue to carry a big emphasis.

[patrickgpe]

i am happy that we didn't resign linebrink (especially at almost 5 million a year). He had his moments while he was with the brewers but overall he has to be considered a disappointment. To lock him up long term is not a wise decision. I have the same feeling on coco. The team would be better if he was back, but to lock up a closer for 4-5 years on the wrong side of 30 who only last season was so poor he lost his closers job, may be a poor decision as we look back in 2011. I won't be upset if coco comes back, but i am just saying it may look bad 4 years from now.

[colbyjack]

Allow me to expand in saying that the Brewers better either re-sign Coco or go out and find someone that could step in and be the same type of closer, not someone that could be the same kind of closer in theory (like Turnbow, Kerry Wood, etc.). Meaning, the Brewers better find a way to acquire someone like Chad Cordero, Brian Fuentes or even Huston Street should Coco leave town. Hopefully it doesn't come to that, even if I would prefer not to see the team sign the kind of money necessary to keep him around. When it is about winning, you sometimes have to take some risks financially.

[brewcrewreview]

GenoSeligPrieb,

That was one of the best posts I've ever read on this site. You broke down my frustrations in great detail, stating in specifics way better than I could have.

[Oldcity]

But as Brewcrewreview states, it seems that Doug's decisions this winter are much more influenced on draft picks than usual. And I've got to wonder why now?

You say this based on what? Not giving Linebrink 4 years/$19 million? At least give Melvin a chance to make a significant move before you accuse him of that.

 

[GenoSeligPrieb]

This is turning into a nice little thread here. And on Thanksgiving, no less! To disclaim, the Lions/Packers game is on, behind me, an I'm not expected by my brother's until 2-2:30, so it's not like I'll be sitting here all day, alone in my underpants with a turkey sub nearby.

 

Anyway, here are a few calls and replies:

 

 

"i am happy that we didn't resign linebrink (especially at almost 5 million a year).....I have the same feeling on coco. The team would be better if he was back, but to lock up a closer for 4-5 years on the wrong side of 30 who only last season was so poor he lost his closers job, may be a poor decision as we look back in 2011. I won't be upset if coco comes back, but i am just saying it may look bad 4 years from now."

 

Patrick:

 

I don't see Choate or Mota as dependable workhorse middle relievers who can close if need be, like Howry, Linebrink, Dotel and Jamie Walker are. And Turnbow sure as hell isn't reliable. So, that means that WHEN our starters inevitably get yanked by Ned (STILL can't believe he was brought back!) in the 6th inning, we'll turn the ball over to some fading vet or an inexperienced question mark.

 

Maybe Linebrink leaving was a fait accompli anyway, but it seemed that Doug and Tor were so hellbent on getting draft picks that his staying wasn't even considered a realistic option. So Linebrink's gone. Fine. Now Doug should go out and get his replacement, because right now, we don't HAVE a 70-inning 3.50 ERA veteran, and we need one desperately.

 

"Allow me to expand in saying that the Brewers better either re-sign Coco or go out and find someone that could step in and be the same type of closer, not someone that could be the same kind of closer in theory (like Turnbow, Kerry Wood, etc.)...When it is about winning, you sometimes have to take some risks financially."

 

Glad to read that from you, Pat!

 

Unfortunately, in this screwy market, you wither wind up paying $4-5 million on a free agent middle reliever (!) or they go somewhere else, and your 6-inning starting pitchers hand the game off to undependable AAAA clowns who aren't good enough to close and aren't good enough to start. I also had a tough time wrapping myself around the notion of a middle reliever getting as much cash as a 3rd baseman, but since rotation members are on such strict pitch counts these days, middle guys are getting paid.

 

.............it seems that Doug's decisions this winter are much more influenced on draft picks than usual. And I've got to wonder why now?

 

"You say this based on what? Not giving Linebrink 4 years/$19 million? At least give Melvin a chance to make a significant move before you accuse him of that. "

 

I say it, Stevo, based on the fact that there was no real interest in Linebrink expressed anywhere, and that this summer Doug defended the Linebrink deal by noting that at least he's a Class A free agent.

 

I also say it, because but Doug never showed any interest in Type A free agent Michael Barrett, and in every article, Haudricourt notes that Doug and Gord expressed satisfaction that Kendall "is a Class B free agent, so we would not have to surrender a 1st round draft pick." And I say it, because CoCoCo, not-so-coincidentally another Type A, remains unsigned, and if HE walks, that's another #16 - #45 draft pick.

 

I never said Doug is done dealing this winter. I surmised that, IF this apparent mindset takes hold, and our front office is guided by restocking first this winter, then yeah, we may not field as dominant team as I'd like for 2008.

 

And by the way, thanks for the kind words, BCR!

[Oldcity]

I say it, Stevo, based on the fact that there was no real interest in Linebrink expressed anywhere, and that this summer Doug defended the Linebrink deal by noting that at least he's a Class A free agent.

It's because if Linebrink wasn't a Type A that would have been a gawdawful trade. It still wasn't very good in hindsight, but it's really only defensible because they get some picks to replenish some prospects they lost to get him.

Also, when you consider that Barrett would have cost a lot more than Kendall at more years, I'm not sure that Barrett is a better value than Kendall anyway.

 

[don1481]

I also say it, because but Doug never showed any interest in Type A free agent Michael Barrett, and in every article, Haudricourt notes that Doug and Gord expressed satisfaction that Kendall "is a Class B free agent, so we would not have to surrender a 1st round draft pick." And I say it, because CoCoCo, not-so-coincidentally another Type A, remains unsigned, and if HE walks, that's another #16 - #45 draft pick.

 

Geno, actually it's TWO #16-45 (or 50, depending on the total number of sandwich picks handed out) picks - the team's first (or second) rounder PLUS the sandwich pick. All this talk about sandwich picks is making me salivate like one of Pavlov's dogs.

 

But I digress.

 

Let's face it - DM acquired Linebrink to try and shore up a faltering bullpen with no intention of re-signing him. In retrospect, I can't fault him on that; he flips Inman - who I did like a lot - plus another prospect plus old-man Thatcher for a rental PLUS two high draft picks. A small market team like the Brewers needs to put themselves in position to be able to compete here and now (which was the point of the Linebrink trade) plus be able to quickly restock the farm system (the two draft picks). I trust in Jack Z to be able to take those two additional high picks and turn them into prospects that either 1. will be able to be helping the big league squad in short time or 2. have a VERY high ceiling but won't be able to help until a little later on. A mix between those two should ensure that the Brewers remain competitive for a long time.

 

I agree with FTJ - Cordero needs to be signed, if the price is "reasonable."

[logan82]

I think this deal had way more to do with not wanting Linebrink around for 4 more years than draft picks. I would pay Cordero $20M over 2 years, but I wouldn't want to lock him up for more than 2 years. Same with Linebrink.

[Postseason2006]

Barrett has some legitimate defensive issues, not to mention some character issues after the Zambrano incident (regardless of who instigated that), and the team made it clear that they wanted a guy that would work well with the staff.

And Kendall has no defensive issues? I also believe that SD didn't really falter much with Barrett? And who wouldn't have a hard time working with Carlos Fattmano. The guy has more personalities than Sybil and either has no hit material or gets shelled more than snails.

[reillymcshane]

For linebrink we get two good draft picks. That's great. But we gave up two guys who could have helped the big league club - Thatcher could very well have been the 'help' we needed when we got Linebrink. While he pitched great for the Padres, his minor league track record was steller - few HRs allowed, high K rates, low walk rates, etc. It would have been nice if the Crew had simply given him a chance. And Inman was a guy most of us liked. PErhaps he won't be a top of the rotation guy, but he looked like he could possibly be a major league starter in the next two years. Garrison looked like he had potential, but it I don't know that much about him. None of these guys looked like superstars, but it seems there was solid potential to have them help the club now, and in the near future.

Instead, we get a couple of picks that will likely take longer to help. Plus, it'll cost a couple of million dollars to sign them. I love having draft picks, but it would have been nice to have had Thatcher in the pen as a cheap lefty, and Inman at AA/AAA next year, with the possibility of being in Milwaukee in 2009 or 2010.

Perhaps the team felt Inman's upside wasn't that high. Or concerned about health. I guess I can understand it then. But all in all, I don't think it was a good move on Melvin's part. It was like he traded Inman, Thatcher, Garrison and two million dollars (which will be needed to sign the picks) for two months of Linebrink and two picks. I know the team wanted a veteran to help the team down the stretch, and with the playoff run in full swing, it is hard to criticize the club for adding a proven player. Still, I think we came out on the short end on this deal. Time will tell with Inman - and the guys we pick.

[splitterpfj]

Whatever the Brewers say about it, I know I would have been very unhappy if they had surrendered their first round pick to sign Michael Barrett.

 

There may be issues with him off-the-field, he got into it with Zambrano, a year after he took a cheap shot at AJ Pierzynski. I think Barrett is at least as bad as any catcher you can name defensively too.

 

Without the draft pick in the mix, Barrett would have been one of many catchers to consider, but he's not the guy I'd jump for with that pick tossed in.

 

Catcher is a rare case where actual baseball mirrors fantasy baseball - if you didn't get one of the top few, you might as well wait, none of them give you an edge.

 

As for Linebrink - I still like him, but I'm glad my team isn't the one that just locked him up for four years.

[Postseason2006]

I agree with not signing Barrett but making up excuses with Shambrano are weak at the least. Kendall is an improvement over Estrada but the trade for FederlineStink was awful. Picks are great but if they turn into the Rodgers and Jeffries variety, that doesn't = Inman + Thatcher + Garrison and that's how this trade should be graded now.

[twobrewers]

Maybe Linebrink leaving was a fait accompli anyway, but it seemed that Doug and Tor were so hellbent on getting draft picks that his staying wasn't even considered a realistic option. So Linebrink's gone. Fine. Now Doug should go out and get his replacement, because right now, we don't HAVE a 70-inning 3.50 ERA veteran, and we need one desperately.

Let's face it, Linebrink was traded for for two reasons. He was able to help shore up our bullpen to make a run last season. And he would net us two draft picks when he left - both with higher ceilings that Inman. (Presumably)

 

So that trade had both a short and long term plan.

 

As for not even considering resigning Linebrink...that is largely a fault of the system. First off, I am confident that the Brewers wouldn't have been willing to go that high for a 7th or 8th innner relief pitcher. But the bigger problem was the draft picks. If were were to sign a similar player to Linebrink from another team - we would lose our second round pick. If we were to just keep Linebrink, we lose the second round pick from another team and the sandwich pick.

 

Keep Linebrink = Linebrink

Lose Linebrink & Sign Linebrink clone = Linebrink Clone & Sandwich pick

 

So the system actually encourages player movement as a team is punished for keeping their own.

[RobertR]

Are the White Sox older than the Yankees yet? They're this close to a spectacular crash and burn for the second season in a roll. They seem to think that they were really a 90 win team in disguise and just need to tweak some problem areas.

I have to believe that Melvin has some major prospect laden trade looming that will really empty out the upper levels of the farm system. A Chad Cordero or Brian Fuentes or Huston Street level deal, maybe a couple such deals. Now that would be a logical explanation for an added emphasis on draft picks. It's obvious that the Brewers aren't going to be major players in free agency. And trading is going to require probably multiple prospects. In a certain sense, I think it's kind of silly to count pre-arbitration players as completely separate from prospects. None of those players are going anywhere anytime soon, after all, at least without the Brewers say so.

Robert

[don1481]

Kendall is an improvement over Estrada but the trade for FederlineStink was awful. Picks are great but if they turn into the Rodgers and Jeffries variety, that doesn't = Inman + Thatcher + Garrison and that's how this trade should be graded now.

 

You're not going to be able to grade this trade for a few more years, until we see who the draft picks are and how they turn out. Yes - if they're the Rogers/Jeffress variety, then this trade favors the Padres.

[colbyjack]

And Kendall has no defensive issues? I also believe that SD didn't really falter much with Barrett? And who wouldn't have a hard time working with Carlos Fattmano. The guy has more personalities than Sybil and either has no hit material or gets shelled more than snails.

 

I wasn't trying to make excuses for Kendall, Barrett or Zambrano. The signing of Kendall doesn't come without risk, but I was pointing out that according to the reports the team was looking for a guy that played nice, worked well with others, handled the pitching staff well, etc., even if they signed a guy who wasn't much, if any better at throwing out baserunners.

 

These parameters don't exactly describe Michael Barrett. splitter actually explained it much better than myself, as him being a Type A FA only added to his warts.

[Fatter than Joey]

Now that would be a logical explanation for an added emphasis on draft picks

 

I am beginning to think that GMs are beginning to precursor their acquisitions by pointing out that they could get draft picks more often than they had in the past.

 

then this trade favors the Padres

 

This trade already favors the Padres -- the question is, will it ever favor the Brewers -- the Padres cleared out a rag arm

for Heath Bell, got a guy in Thatcher that helped them in the playoff race and got a more developed arm in Inman. I'm sure

they are happy