Scott Podsednik released

[Glennron]

jason21nl wrote:

He got their team going, he was their spark plug. From everything that I have watched, read or heard on radio, that all the players on the team said the same thing. You probably could ask anyone at the white sox message boards too if he played an important role that year. Is he a great player? no has he had a great career? probably not the best, he has had some good seasons and has a ring. Do I want him back? no. was he an important player on that team? hell yeah he was.

 

 

Word on the street is that he told Buehrle, Contreras, Garland, Garcia, Cotts, etc. to have career years. He also sparked Jermaine Dye into having an MVP type season and coerced Paul Konerko into hitting 40 home runs.

 

Edit: Dye's really good year was 2006, my bad.

[danzig6767]

Saying stats are bad is like saying fact are bad. It may ruin some myth you hold but that's what facts do. And by the way? Number of championships? That's a stat.

 

I certainly don't think stats are bad, especially in a sport like baseball that in many cases is a one on one deal. I'm sure many advanced stats have value in helping evaluate a players performance. My only problem when reading this board is that the saber stuff doesn't really interest me at all, so i don't read up on it.. So with how big that has become in baseball and all the websites dedicated to saber related things, it seems like a handful of new abbreviations pop up every month or two.

I'll be reading posts and at times it feels similar to if it was typed in Russian. It will be so and so has a FIB that is higher than another guys DIPS, but his BAIP% was lowered because the RZR of the defense, but the teams OXP was outstanding. If only lower their AQERA and DER along with getting a few more guys with a better VORP, we'll be set. Then another poster argues that a different stat/abbreviation i never heard of works better.

I tried reading up on some of these stats, but instantly became bored, so i do what i always did, just watch the games and form opinions from that and the more basic stats. If a post has abbreviations i never heard of, i simply scroll over it, no need to argue with posters on a topic if i don't even know what the hell they are talking about.

 

[Oldcity]

If a post has abbreviations i never heard of, i simply scroll over it, no need to argue with posters on a topic if i don't even know what the hell they are talking about.

 

Except if they say things like Ben Sheets is a mediocre pitcher and any objective fan knows Carl Crawford is twice the player Bill Hall is. Comments like that are easily disproved.

 

[danzig6767]

If a post has abbreviations i never heard of, i simply scroll over it, no need to argue with posters on a topic if i don't even know what the hell they are talking about.

 

Except if they say things like Ben Sheets is a mediocre pitcher and any objective fan knows Carl Crawford is twice the player Bill Hall is. Comments like that are easily disproved.

 

 

Only a tiny bit of common sense should be needed to know that both comments above involving Sheets and Hall are pretty silly. Crazy comments like that aren't really worth wasting time debating IMO.

[trwi7]

We measure the greatness of a football player not by his stats, but rather by his number of rings.

Then I guess Antonio Freeman is better than Randy Moss because Freeman has a ring. Trent Dilfer must be better than Dan Marino too because he has a ring as well.

[sbrylski]

To some people, they swear that VORP and OPS are the most important stats to judge a player by. Well maybe they're WRONG! Who decided that OPS was the greatest stat? Bill James? What position did Bill James play? What team did he manage? How many stats books has he sold? I would think it's in Bill James best interest to make you believe stats are important. maybe, just maybe, they're NOT !

 

You're right to an extent. A lot of times people understand the use of a statistic but they don't actually understand how it's generated or the thought process behind it, including me. (I'm talking about the more complicated statistics.) In fact, as I understand it, Bill James and others use some rather arbitrary measurements and assumptions in the creation of some statistics, such as win shares or VORP. In the end, they publish something that is advertised as fact but in actuality just an educated guess. Doesn't mean its not valuable or accurate, but it shouldn't always be used as fact.

 

However, the simpler things like OPS and its correlation to team wins, indeed are mathematical fact that isn't difficult to follow. You mention that winning is possibly all about guts and heart. But wouldn't things like guts and heart be the things that allow a player to get the "clutch" hit, hit the homer, or make the diving catch? In turn, those things are measured in the simple statistics. Point being that guts and heart and other internal intangibles (internal meaning sans virtual unmeasurables such as veteran leadership) are indeed measured and weighted. With the simple mathematics and statistical correlation, we know for a near certainty what a team or a player need to do to contribute to a win regardless of how they do it. Not to say statistics can predict the future and tell us who will do those things, but as generally outsiders observing the action, using their past, trends and other studies of what might point to a good future, is the best we can do and are shown to definitely give a better guess.

[Ennder]

I guess people can bag on Pods for not being a good player, but dude has a World Series ring and played a big part during that season and into the world series.

He was a below average OF on a team that happened to win a world series, I'm not impressed.

You all can throw all your stats out there, he was a very big part of that team and if you don't think he was, then you didn't pay any attention to the white sox that year.

 

i did pay attention to them, they won with pitching not hitting and he is a below average fielder. The pitching all had career years and that is what led them to a world series, the hitting wasn't all that great other than HR's. Sorry but the whole they won with small ball thing is a joke. Pods had a decent year that season especially in the 1st half so yeah he did help them out. I just think they win that world series with Carlos Lee too, he wasn't the difference maker.

[Jimbo]

Who decided that OPS was the greatest stat? Bill James?

Science. OXS and OPS have the strongest correlation to runs scored. People go with OPS over OXS because it is user-friendly.

[JohnBriggs12]

Speaking of stats, I recall hearing on Chicago radio this summer a breakdown of the White Sox record with Podsednik in the lineup vs. what it was without him in the lineup.

 

I don't have those numbers but it was astounding how much better their record was with Pods in the lineup, even in 07 when he was hurt more often than not and the team wasn't as good.

 

It was injuries that soured the Sox on Pods. He couldn't stay healthy. As for his defense, he's plenty good in LF and on a team that has a CF who hits like a corner OF (which is what we expect from Hall), he could still fit.

 

A healthy Podsednik would not be a bad option for the Brewers. Certainly he's not the best option out there, but his likely price would be quite low and they do still have Gross as competition for that spot.

[JJHardy7]

The one thing I don't like about the stats on this board is that they are easily used to make one's opinion roll out the way they want it.

 

Pods was a huge part of the White Sox getting to the World Series. I watched a ton of their games that year and I don't have some statistic that will prove he was the most outstanding LF to play that year. It's not needed. I think the who has more championships is important, but obviously Dilfer isn't better than Marino. I really dislike how people are so quick to jump down someone's throat. It really drains the posting and makes this website look a lot less like what it could be. If someone thinks championships have value, I'd imagine they are stating that Pods should get some respect for being a starter on a World Series team.

 

Why not bring Pods into a minor league deal? What could it hurt? Everyone hated Estrada and now everyone hates the fact that we got rid of him and his replacement is maybe a similar "stats" guy. What do you guys want? Every move here is almost hated by half of the posters. Bringing Pods into a minor league deal hurts nothing. What's up with all the Nix love? He wasn't that good in Nashville. I'd take Pods in a heart beat ahead of Nix -- why? He's started on a world series team and (insert stat that proves I know so much about it right here).

 

Is Sheets mediocre? No. Has he been healthy the last 3 seasons? No. Is he injury prone? I don't know, but being hurt for 3 seasons seems to suggest he might be. Is he 25? No. Do we need a healthy Sheets? Yes. Will we get it? Who knows. Can a small market team afford to give him $60 million guaranteed? Based on the last 3 years. No.

 

Those are the important questions above. I could care less about his ERA if he can't be healthy the full year.

 

Now insert a bunch of states that prove I'm wrong.

[bigredrobbo]

Now insert a bunch of states that prove I'm wrong.

 

That's easy. North Carolina, Oklahoma and, of course, Texas!

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

 

[Ennder]

I will never trust fan perception over stats, that is just the way I am. It is hard for the two sides to really discuss things as well. Two fans can watch the same game or same team and come out of it with completely different perceptions about what happened. Stats generally don't lie though they can be misleading for sure.

[JJHardy7]

I guess people can bag on Pods for not being a good player, but dude has a World Series ring and played a big part during that season and into the world series.

He was a below average OF on a team that happened to win a world series, I'm not impressed.

I guess I really disagree with he was on a team that happened to win a world series. I'm not saying I'm right, but Pods had a big impact on that team.

 

I think the statheads (I'm not being mean, but I do respect the numbers and the effort you guys put in) should make their free agent list of guys they want in Milwaukee.

 

I think at times the stat heads just are negative towards guys that are Brewers and want them replaced and then are negative towards the replacements (ie if it happens Estrada and Kendall).

 

I honestly can't say that Lee would've won a world series with the Sox. I think Po was a better fit.

[Fatter than Joey]

At the end of the day Pods' wife is still very hot.

[MadtownTim]

Hey, while we're talking about picking up ScottyPo, we could make it a two-fer and pick up Brady Clark too! He was released a little while ago.

 

Picking up Scotty would not be a benefit to anyone but Scotty's accountant.

[Fear The Chorizo]

At the end of the day Pods' wife is still very hot.

 

Waiting for a stathead to reference the relatively unknown, but widely used stat in regards to this outcome, OPW/SOHF (Opposing Player's Wife/Significant Other's Hotness Factor). This stat came into prominence during the 2003 world series, when Marlin's pitchers Josh Beckett had such a great postseason run due to his astronomical OPW/SOHF - derived mainly from the AMQ (Alyssa Milano Quotient)

[JJHardy7]

Hey, while we're talking about picking up ScottyPo, we could make it a two-fer and pick up Brady Clark too! He was released a little while ago.

 

Picking up Scotty would not be a benefit to anyone but Scotty's accountant.

How do you figure that? A minor league deal is peanuts compared to what he's made in the past.

[Ennder]

I guess I really disagree with he was on a team that happened to win a world series. I'm not saying I'm right, but Pods had a big impact on that team.

 

Thats fine, we can agree to disagree. The White Sox won a world series with pitching, I can't really see any argument otherwise looking at their stats. Their offense was worse in that season than it was the year before but the pitching stepped up big time and carried the team.

[homer]

I lived in Chicago when the Sox won it all. They won in spite of Pods playing CF every day.

 

Re: Stats

 

I like them but my only problem is that there are definitely things you can't measure that tend to be ignored. Having said that, stats provide enough of a picture that you can gauge value with them. The intangibles are nice if you draw even on a stat comparison but they are not the sole reason to pick up a player.

[Thurston Fluff]

Thats fine, we can agree to disagree. The White Sox won a world series with pitching, I can't really see any argument otherwise looking at their stats. Their offense was worse in that season than it was the year before but the pitching stepped up big time and carried the team

If the Sox wouldn't have said before the season started that they needed someone on the team who could help them generate runs in tight games to go along with what they believed would be a great pitching staff then your arguement would be stronger. They had a feast or famine offense with a lot of power but nobody who could genrate runs in the famine times. They knew they needed a certain type of player to go along with their pitching and they got what they needed in Po. It wasn't like they gave credit to Po. after it was over. They said what they needed, got it, and it worked. You may feel it was just luck but predicting something and it turning out that way has to be given some amount of credence.

I saw the use of OPS as a reason why he wasn't very good that year. That is an instance of using the wrong stat IMO. It's not one size fits all. They needed a leadoff man. They needed someone who could bet on base and put pressure on the pitching and defense. They needed someone who could help generate a run without the aid of a hit. They needed someone who could score without the aid of a power guy hitting a homerun. Po. provided those things for them. His OPS for that team that year was subordinate to his OBP and base stealing abilities. To use it as an arguement why he wasn't a catalyst that year would be a poor use of the stat IMO.

[homer]

His OBP was .351 and he stole 59 bases and was caught 23 times which is below average (should I not be using stats?). .351 is OK I suppose but for a leadoff guy its also below average. He may have been an improvement over what they had but I really don't think he was the reason they won the world series.

[Thurston Fluff]

I don't think there is ever "the" reason a team wins a WS. He was part of the reason. He did what was asked of him. Not great but improvement over what they had in that role. His stolen base % was lower than it should have been but given the fact that it was higher the previous two year I think they wanted him to run more often than maybe they should have. Guillen liked to take chances so he may not have cared if the % was lower than sabre guys deemed worthwhile. Just a thought. Either way Po wouldn't give us anything Nix or Gwynn can't so he's not a very good fit for the Brewers.

[brew522]

I lived in Chicago when the Sox won it all. They won in spite of Pods playing CF every day.

Oh give me a break. The 2005 season was a great team effort in which Pods did play a key role. You can continue to dismiss him, but everyone from Ozzie to teammates to announcers were commenting on it. And he hasn't played CF regularly since he was with the Brewers.

[brew522]

Speaking of stats, I recall hearing on Chicago radio this summer a breakdown of the White Sox record with Podsednik in the lineup vs. what it was without him in the lineup.

 

I don't have those numbers but it was astounding how much better their record was with Pods in the lineup, even in 07 when he was hurt more often than not and the team wasn't as good.

JB, I remember hearing the same thing. I wanted to see the numbers again, and came up with this on a Google search.

 

http://thejuice.baseballtoaster.com/archives/742831.html -- "He Might Not be Sabermetrical, but Podsednik Equals Wins for White Sox"

[RockCoCougars]

I wouldn't be against giving him a non-roster invite, provided he's not swinging for the fences anymore. That said, he'll get a better offer elsewhere, so it's a moot point.