Estrada Traded to the Mets for Guillermo Mota

[Thurston Fluff]

If this was the first team that had probelms with how Estrada handled the pitching staff I'd chalk any comments up to covering their butts. But this isn't the first time it's happened so where there is smoke there is fire. If the pitching staff improves with a better battery mate then any drop off offensively should be offset somewhat. If indeed there is a drop off from Estrada. Mota has the advantage of being capable of pitching multiple innings at a time. If he isn't a world beater but can save the bullpen a little then he has some value. It's a bit too much money to spend on a mopup guy but it's a short term commitment and $3.2 million isn't something I'm gong to get all that worked up over. As far as his positive test goes I'd be a hypocrit if I said it didn't bother me but if he does test positive agian at least we wouldn't have to pay him the money.

I've seen several people say we would have been better off just non-tendering Estrada than we are taking on Mota. While I understand the addition by subtraction idea I don't really think it's ever a good idea not to get something for someone. With the addition of Mota we at least have a chance of some sort of return. Just letting Estrada go would assure the team of no possible return. To take a step forward some gambles have to be taken. I don't see a $3.2 million gamble as unreasonable for even a small market team.

[dogs with bees in their mo]

Mota just seems like a waste of money. I would've rather just let Estrada walk if we are making room for Kendall.

 

I can't blame Doug for signing Kendall if he doesn't cost us anything but money, there are no catchers available. I'm glad to get rid of the whiny, hacker, rag arm, insanely overrated by people who don't pay attention to anything but his batting average even if they say he's just average, complete bum at blocking balls in the dirt, slug, but I would prefer to add good players.

[TooLiveBrew]

If he isn't a world beater but can save the bullpen a little then he has some value. It's a bit too much money to spend on a mopup guy but it's a short term commitment and $3.2 million isn't something I'm gong to get all that worked up over.

 

Keep in mind that Mota's stats from 1 IP or less were quite decent. He was often asked to pitch another inning (or into another inning), and then he suffered. Unfortunately, I can't say with confidence of any kind that he'll be utilized more correctly in Milwaukee.

 

However, if he is, I think he'll bring more than just a little value. In all fairness to Ned, for all his bullpen bumblings, I can't point to 'trotting his RP back out for another inning' as one. He does a nice job of not overworking the RP in an individual game (it's over the course of a week or more that he's burned them out) from what I recall.

 

If Wise can't get back on track, we'll need someone who's more reliable than McClung. I still have hope that one of our SP will be shipped for a good relief arm - hopefully the RP to throw more than just one inning as Melvin had opined. So if we look at this deal as getting rid of a player who was viewed as having negative value to our team, and gaining a player to augment (but not be 'the fix') our bullpen, I think it's a fine move.

[jjfanec]

What were Mota's stats in games where he pitched one inning or less? Where can I find that info?

[Thurston Fluff]

So if we look at this deal as getting rid of a player who was viewed as having negative value to our team, and gaining a player to augment (but not be 'the fix') our bullpen, I think it's a fine move.

Excellent point. I was trying to make one similar to it but wasn't articulate enough to put it that well.

[theavrock]

What were Mota's stats in games where he pitched one inning or less? Where can I find that info?

 

Sybrlski06 posted this on page 4 but I'll post it again for those who dont want to go through the whole thread. 2007 Pitches 1-25 .239 / .296 / .380 / .676 Pitches 26+ .462 / .517 / .808 / 1.325 However, his BABIP splits were .273 and .526, respectively. So I wouldn't expect that split to be as drastic next season.

[areacodes]

However, his BABIP splits were .273 and .526, respectively. So I wouldn't expect that split to be as drastic next season.

Just curious... what would be the league average of BABIP?

 

[endaround]

Its almost always right around .300

[DrWood]

Melvin will have to swing a miracle deal for Johjima, like an earlier poster suggested, for me to make much sense of this.

trading a player that is certainly an above-average offensive catcher, and who has certainly played the position at a credible major league level over multiple seasons, for a pitcher that is a negative due to his contract, seems like trading a positive (you can argue how large) for a negative seems foolish. It HAS to be behind the scenes stuff. It CAN'T be about productivity.

 

Signing a guy like Mota, if he's been waived, is one thing. Trading for him is another.

 

And for those who think that some combination of Munson, Rivera, and Rottino can be an adequate catching rotation, well, you just need to learn some baseball.

[monty57]

I think this trade also points to the market for relief pitchers this offseason. With Rivera signing a record 3 yr/$45MM deal and Cordero likely asking $10-13MM / yr, the cost of a free agent relief pitcher is likely to skyrocket, in much the same way the price of FA starting pitchers escalated last year after Zito signed.

 

If Coco and Linebrink sign elsewhere, we have a huge hole in what was arguably already our weakest position. I don't have a link, but I read an article where Wise is unsure whether he'll be offered arby. That leaves us with Turnbow, McClung, Shouse, Aquino and Choate. If the Riske's of the world end up signing $8MM/yr deals, Mota may seem like a good option for "only" $3.2MM.

 

As for Estrada vs. Kendall (keeping in mind that Kendall has not signed), I think that if both players are fully healthy, Estrada is probably slightly better than Kendall at this point. However, for the "clubhouse cancer" effect that seems very apparent at this point, Estrada had to go. If Kendall can indeed keep his OBP up, he may well be a better fit for the Brewers, as the Brewers did not have a good option for their #8 hitter outside of Craig Counsell. Estrada tied Yost's hands to a point by forcing him to bat better offensive players in the #8 spot simply because Estrada refuses to watch a single pitch.

 

That said, I'm vigilantly watching to see who gets signed to play catcher. If this blows up in Melvin's face and Kendall signs elsewhere, we could be in a situation where we have to give up some prospects we wouldn't want to give up in order to get a serviceable catcher.

[DrWood]

no reasonable GM will give Riske anything close to 8 mill. you can find good experienced bullpen options for $4 mill a year. Is mota now the highest-paid bullpen arm for the brewers or is Turnbow a little higher?

[brewmann04]

Mota ,Choate is not upgrading this bullpen at all and if they lose Kendall Miller and Munson will not be cutting it behind the Plate.

[TooLiveBrew]

And for those who think that some combination of Munson, Rivera, and Rottino can be an adequate catching rotation, well, you just need to learn some baseball.

Sorry, don't have time to go back & re-read (but I've read the whole thread), but did anyone claim this?

[MadisonBrewerBlue]

i have to admit, I will miss swearing at johnny estrada next year while watching the games. thanks for the memories johnny.

[SoCalBrewfan]

no reasonable GM will give Riske anything close to 8 mill.

 

Fortunately for the players, there are other kinds, and some of them have access to very big budgets.

 

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see Riske get something close to 3/$20M, though it will likely be a little less than that. There have been a lot of 3/$12M middle reliever deals, but many were a couple of offseasons ago (see, for example, Eyre and Howry). Guys with more question marks than Riske (but also with a larger no. of career saves) have gotten even more than that: Danys Baez (3/$19M from Baltimore), Kyle Farnsworth (3/$17M, Yanks).

[dadofandrew]

There's so few middle relievers and so much demand, I'd think Riske will get about what Linebrink will, which now I'd say will be $5-5.5M per.

 

It's a lot like a GM said once after signing someone to a bloated deal..."In 5 years, it'll look like a steal". Howry and Eyre's "huge" 3y/$9M deals of a couple years ago are now standard or inexpensive.

[Fatter than Joey]

Turnbow and Mota are both at $3.2 as far as I can tell

[logan82]

5) This is further evidence (at not much cost) that Melvin is losing his touch (see Melvin confidence thread). He woulda been a lot better off looking for the next Villanueva in low A ball than Mota and throwing in a million to the Mets in an act of irony and baravdo.

I disagree with this. We are looking for guys who will help us next year, not 2-3 years from now. Obviously we will need players then as well, but not every deal has to be for minor leaguers.

[logan82]

Keep in mind that Mota's stats from 1 IP or less were quite decent. He was often asked to pitch another inning (or into another inning), and then he suffered. Unfortunately, I can't say with confidence of any kind that he'll be utilized more correctly in Milwaukee.

Don't count on it. I think one of the things Melvin mentioned was that he thought Mota could go more than one inning.

 

For all his shortcomings, I still don't see going from Estrada to Kendell as much if any improvement. I would guess that it had more to do with how Estrada got along with the coaches than what he did on the field.

[whynotthebrewers]

I find it just hilarious listening to the radio and reading this thread. This is the same Estrada that was bashed and crapped on just about every game, correct? I told people that the catching position is pretty bad throughout the league and he is a pretty good hitting catcher at least. But all you heard back was that he was awful defensively and he never takes a pitch, blah blah. So I always said be prepared for some real complaints to start if something was done about him.

 

So here it is. It has happened and now all people can do is complain about how we traded him for nothing and his replacement is not very good. Well you cannot have it both ways. Make up your mind and live with it now. As bad as he was, it was the best we were going to see and now we have downgraded the position. Well at least Kendall will take more pitches, which apparently make some happy. He may hit 40 points lower but he will take more pitches. Great. But this is what the public asked for so I am not surprised it happened. But I am pissed he is gone and our team has gotten worse in this area. O and Kendall also can't throw anyone out so we have to listen to all that again.

 

I think some of the complaints are not thought out enough and the alternatives are not pointed out. We now have one and it is not good. Man I am pissed.

[splitterpfj]

I like the move. I have no idea why Doug took Mota, but he did, I'll take the change at catcher, I think it's a positive.

[TooLiveBrew]

Well at least Kendall will take more pitches, which apparently make some happy. He may hit 40 points lower but he will take more pitches. Great.

Yea! Stupid OBP! Always having runners on base! He may hit 40 points lower? So you're forecasting a .240 year from Kendall? Even with that, his OBP will likely be equal to or better than Estrada.

But this is what the public asked for so I am not surprised it happened.

Huh?

[homer]

Walk is as good as a hit....at least that's what my little league coach told me.

[whynotthebrewers]

But this is what the public asked for so I am not surprised it happened.

 

Huh?

 

If you listened to the radio at all or just talked to a group of fans I am sure you heard the dislike for Estrada. Or read this site at all. Do you not remember that?

[DrWood]

Walk is as good as a hit....at least that's what my little league coach told me.

That's only when the bases are loaded in a tie game in the last inning.