Law on ESPNradio and one of my own...

[Brian the Automator]

Do it. Do it.

 

Do it.

 

Who plays CF?

Hart

[brewers255]

Brian you hear anything from your sources on this?

[brewerfan82]

Here's a summary of the outfield situation with these guys:

 

 Career Splits 3-Year Splits
-vs- R -vs- L Overall
Player Age B/T AVG/OBP/SLG AVG/OBP/SLG AVG/OBP/SLG AB/BB AB/SO $$$
2007 Brewers LF's ** 2007 TOTALS ** 261/318/453 14.05 4.65
2007 Brewers CF's ** 2007 TOTALS ** 275/334/457 11.50 3.98
2007 Brewers RF's ** 2007 TOTALS ** 267/329/474 12.09 5.67

Player Age B/T AVG/OBP/SLG AVG/OBP/SLG AVG/OBP/SLG AB/BB AB/SO $$$
LF Gross, Gabe 28 L/R 260/350/434 093/269/167 255/351/437 6.80 4.09 0.398
LF Mench, Kevin 30 R/R 255/310/420 305/361/563 266/318/445 13.88 8.72 ARB
CF Hall, Bill 28 R/R 262/310/461 270/350/484 272/335/495 10.49 3.79 4.800
CF Gwynn Jr, Tony 25 L/R 257/307/320 280/308/280 260/307/315 14.29 5.13 0.390
RF Hart, Corey 26 R/R 270/315/486 313/389/544 284/340/506 13.54 4.76 0.392

LF Johnson, Kelly 26 L/R 263/363/447 267/353/405 264/360/435 6.82 4.22 PRE-ARB
RF Francoeur, Jeff 24 R/R 265/302/431 317/361/545 280/319/463 20.39 4.86 PRE-ARB 

 

From what I can tell, both of them have another year until they hit arbitration. And FWIW, Soriano is in his last season of arbitration and Boyer may have 2 more seasons before he hits arbitration. Subtract Sheets' and Hall's contracts and we've got some serious doe to play with this year.

 

If it's even questionable that we can sign Sheets long term, you make this trade and you hope you can use some of that freed up cash to bring in a legit starter to re-stabilize the rotation.

[Big Reed]

for those that value Hall so much - see that other thread talking about Hall verses Crawford - I think I should point out that hall was not even starting for the brewers for much of last season's stretch run as Yost was already going in a different direction and winning. I have to believe that has probably led melvin to the idea of trading hall, and has also lessened his value in the minds of other GMs. At the end of last season, Hall's value was almost equal to dare I say it ? Mench!

[Oldcity]

At the end of last season, Hall's value was almost equal to dare I say it ? Mench!

That's just not true, and it isn't even close.

 

[RyDogg66]

except Hall can play 2b, ss, cf, 3b and probably both corners, and Mench cannot.

[Never Outhustled]

At the end of last season, Hall's value was almost equal to dare I say it ? Mench!

So your saying 1 slump completely erases an entire careers worth of work, uncluding a 898 OPS the previous season, as a SS?

[giffted1]

I would have found it hard to turn down the Francoeur and Soriano offer for Sheets, but I'm really liking this trade as long as the prospect isn't Gallardo.

 

With Sheets and Hall's contracts off the books we'd have have quite a bit of money to spend on the pen. I can handle losing two of my favorite players in Sheets and Hall if we can get this kind of return plus some cash to spend.

[Never Outhustled]

Why move Johnson who is a decent defender to the outfield to leave Weeks in place?

Brian wrote:

Johnson has experience in the outfield, Weeks has none. While, with practice, I think Weeks could handle the outfield, you're sort of compounding the problem by having him learn a new position, IMO.

Weeks was a high school LF, and spent a good portion of his freshman season at Southern playing CF. It a big reason why Weeks was/is so poor defensively at 2B, he lacks experience there.

 

Weeks in LF and Johnson at 2B would be better defensively than Weeks at 2B and Johnson in LF, IMO. Weeks has a much stronger arm than Johnson also, which would be better used in the OF.

 

[BritInWI]

With Sheets and Hall's contracts off the books we'd have have quite a bit of money to spend on the pen.

And a huge hole at the front of the rotation. The one thing that I don't get here is why no-one seems to worry that the rotation, which already needs some help (due in part to Sheets having trouble staying healthy), will go from having a part-time hole at the top to a full-time one.

A trade like this will free up some money certainly, but with two relief pitchers coming back in the deal that money would need to be spent making a trade for a top of the rotation starting pitcher. Or do we enjoy the thought of seeing the bullpen worked to death again?

[davemakovec]

1. Gallardo

2. Villanueva

3. Parra

 

I think that looks pretty good for a top of the rotation, especially since the lineup we'd have would be terrifying. Yankee-esque, even. Weeks-Johnson-Braun-Fielder-Hart-Francoeur-Estrada-Hardy-Pitcher is pretty brutal. When 7 and 8 are the closest things to an easy out in the lineup, I'd be frightened. That team would win a lot of 9-7 games.

[Brian the Automator]

Brian you hear anything from your sources on this?

nope

[PeaveyFury]

This would certainly give us the best young lineup in the Majors, and the terrifying thing is that they'll all be together for 3-5 more years. It'd also help stabilize a bullpen that needs all the help it can get. Sure, the rotation is weakened some, but it gives the Brewers mega cash this season to try and acquire rotation help at some point.

 

I'd definitely do this deal, as this would be much better compensation than a pick or two next offseason if Sheets leaves.

 

If nothing else, it's a heck of a lot more exciting than talking about Jason Kendall and Pedro Feliz.

[Big Reed]

what I'm saying is yost wanted to win so he put his best lineup in each day. and as part of that best line-up, hall was often watching from the sidelines in September. he was being platooned with gross and gwynn. mench was a n ok player wit h texas, but he to o found himself a platooon player for the brewers. mench had a lot of potential and value in 2005 and 2006. now he has very little trade value.

 

Hall still has some trade value to other teams because he can play the infield. but his value as an outfielder is getting very close to the value mench has. if mench recieved the number of atbats hal l did las t year, i'm quite sure he'd be able to duplicate hsi production.

 

and yes, hall's slump last year dramatically affected his trade value. Nobody remembers how great mench was in 2005 before he was a brewer. as far as hall's value as a shortstop goes , two shortstops have already been traded and neither one's name was hall. the teams looking for shortstops found somebody else.

 

I'm not going to lie about the brewers' September line ups. Why not ask Yost why he benched hall? Great players do not become platoon players when the divison crown is on the line. .

[giffted1]

And a huge hole at the front of the rotation. The one thing that I don't get here is why no-one seems to worry that the rotation, which already needs some help (due in part to Sheets having trouble staying healthy), will go from having a part-time hole at the top to a full-time one.

Even without Sheets we'd have a decent rotation. Gallardo was sort of our "ace" already down the stretch last year. Gallardo, Villanueva, Suppan, and Parra would be a solid top four, and even with their struggles Capuano, Bush, or even Vargas would be better than most teams fifth starter.

[endaround]

Yost thinks his best lineup has Estrada batting 5th and Mench starting vs RHP

[sbrylski]

I'm not sure Parra is ready for the rotation physically.

 

Even with a Sheets trade, I'd still like to see us sell Vargas away, clearing more salary, and then targeting something more solid. Obviously much easier said than done, but there are guys available - as good as Blanton/Haren/Harden to guys like Joe Kennedy. Just not a Vargas fan.

 

Gallardo - Villanueva - Suppan - ??? - Capuano/Bush/Parra

 

I'm comforable with the above quality and depth. The big Sheets move, followed with a trade reminiscent of the DBacks trade with us for Doug Davis, would set this team up wonderfully. Add in some more BBQ relievers to spin the wheel on, and I'm ready for ST.

[Invader3K]

I think the outlined trade would make the Brewers much stronger, and give them some solid depth. Obviously, obtaining another starting pitcher this off-season would probably be required, but this isn't a mutually exclusive thing we're talking about. I would really like to see something like this happen.

[brettac1]

I'm likely close to alone on this one, but I'd trade an organizational soldier or three for Dukes if the Rays are just going to dump the guy for nothing.

[splitterpfj]

1. Weeks

2. Johnson

3. Braun

4. Fielder

5. Hart

6. Francoeur

7. Hardy

8. Catcher

 

That's a lot of fun to read, and no fun at all to pitch to. I think that's the best lineup in the National League if it happens - all still improving and all still affordable.

 

I also like the move for the bullpen, and if you're going to take a risk, doing so by dealing your biggest physical risk, at a position where you at least have some promising young players who may fill the gap - makes sense.

 

Sign me up.

[PilprinBuddha]

I would guess that The $ for Francouer would be similar or a bit more than the $ invested in Hall right now. Sheets coming off the books allows us to attempt at grabbing a more expensive catcher option and or Pitching option.

 

I like the deal becuase it provides additional options for subsequent moves.

 

I don't like dealing Sheets because he is a legit #1 when healthy. Unfortunately it has been a few years since that happened. I believe we would need to go get another pitcher to go with Yo, Suppan, Bush, Vargas, and Cappy. Villanueva maybe could start, but he was so nice as a long reliever. A #2 or #3 pitcher would be key...if possible.

[trwi7]

I'm likely close to alone on this one, but I'd trade an organizational soldier or three for Dukes if the Rays are just going to dump the guy for nothing.

 

I agree with you. If we could get him he'd be a good outfield addition. High OBP guy.

[sbrylski]

I'm likely close to alone on this one, but I'd trade an organizational soldier or three for Dukes if the Rays are just going to dump the guy for nothing.

I agree with you. If we could get him he'd be a good outfield addition. High OBP guy.

And good to have around in case we have an unfair umpire.

[Madtown Bomber]

Sorry I disappeared for a few hours...work responsiblities.

 

This is by no means a website insider or radio rumor. I got this straight from somebody who would know about this stuff. I can sometimes get stuff out of him that doesn't directly effect him and his stuff.

 

Yes I am aware it looks really a lot like the rumor from a few days ago on this site. I also agree that the current version of this trade seems unlikely.

 

Am I personally becoming a believer in Sheets leaving and going to the Braves...yes.

[trwi7]

And good to have around in case we have an unfair umpire.

 

Yost could distract the umpire by yelling in his face or having McClung throw fastballs at him while Dukes gets his wonder bat.