Let's Make A Deal

[Oldcity]

Well if they couldn't get Maine I think Heilman would need to be included. The Brewers won't trade Sheets for guys with little-to-no MLB experience.

[trwi7]

Well if they couldn't get Maine I think Heilman would need to be included. The Brewers won't trade Sheets for guys with little-to-no MLB experience.

 

Maybe something along the lines of Heilman, Pelfrey or Mulvey and Gomez maybe with Joe Smith added if we added something else?

[RockCoCougars]

Not sure why everyone is so high on Milledge. In my opinion, he's another overhyped New York prospect who's primed to bust. If the Mets were willing to give up Kazmir for Zambrano, and Bannister for Burgos, I would want much more than Milledge and a middling "great stuff" guy like Heilman for Sheets who is an ace when healthy. I'd think about Maine and a couple of prospects.

[trwi7]

Not sure why everyone is so high on Milledge. In my opinion, he's another overhyped New York prospect who's primed to bust. If the Mets were willing to give up Kazmir for Zambrano, and Bannister for Burgos, I would want much more than Milledge and a middling "great stuff" guy like Heilman for Sheets who is an ace when healthy. I'd think about Maine and a couple of prospects.

 

I think the bolded part is just overvaluing Sheets by a wide margin. Maine was better than Sheets this year when you take into account innings pitched, Maine is also younger, cheaper and under control. You'd be lucky to get the Mets to do Maine for Sheets straight up as is much less having two prospects added.

[logan82]

Is Maine better than 140 innings of Sheets and 70 innings of Parra?

[trwi7]

Is Maine better than 140 innings of Sheets and 70 innings of Parra?

 

Not sure since Parra only has about 25 innings of major league experience. However this year Maine pitched 191 innings with a 3.91 ERA compared to Sheets' 141.1 innings and 3.82 ERA. When you consider contracts, age, injuries etc. Maine has more value than Sheets.

[logan82]

Then why would New York trade him?

[joshjs]

Exactly. Maine for Sheets would be like Kazmir for... oh, wait.

[trwi7]

Then why would New York trade him?

 

I was the one who said New York wouldn't trade him for Sheets.

[Tbadder]

I can't see a possible trade working here. It would have to include A) Maine, which is just ridiculous because the Mets aren't dumb, or B) three prospects (an A, plus two Bs), or C) Heilmann and two prospects (an A and a B). B just guts you so I can't see it happening, and C the Brewers just clearly win the trade which again you have to assume the Mets are dumb, which they're not. In any case if I don't get Martinez I'm not doing it. And Lastings is a curse--stay very far away.

 

As was said before, Sheets is overvalued because of what he is capable of, and the kind of person he is. And If Sheets is an A type, which he is with any kind of health, we lose two valuable picks, so that has to be factored in.

[TransMonk]

Thanks for the great responses so far. I see a lot of differing ideas which is awesome. I'll tell you what I'm looking at from a Mets point of view:

 

My general idea of inquiring about Sheets is to bolster our starting rotation and basically fill the spot that Glavine vacated by going back to Atlanta. Right now, our rotation is Pedro Martinez, Orlando Hernandez, John Maine, Oliver Perez and Mike Pelfrey in no particular order. Because Martinez and Hernandez are older and coming off of injury shortened campaigns, Maine and Perez are our best bets at full seasons of consistent pitching. Because of this, I don't see Maine (or Perez) being included in a deal for Sheets. Moving Maine for Sheets would only create another hole in our rotation rather than filling one.

 

That being said, I personally would not be opposed to including Pelfrey in a deal. His spot in our rotation is less secure and much less is expected from him in 2008 than what is expected of Maine. Pelfrey was the Mets 1^st round draft pick in 2005. He does have a great sinker and is currently working on other pitches to compliment it. He has taken his lumps in his limited starts in the majors, but I believe he does have the talent and poise to be an above average starter. Phillip Humber is another starter in the organization that shows promise. He is a notch behind Pelfrey in experience, but has almost the same potential in my eyes.

 

Milledge is the most major league ready offensive youngster we have to offer… he is slated to start 2008 as the opening day rightfielder. He has gotten a bad rep for his so-called attitude problems and I am maybe his biggest detractor on our message board. However, he does play hard and he does play for the team. I think some of his problems have been over exaggerated by the media. With a little more development and a little more experience, I think he can be a great player. His defense is spotty at this point in his career. He is capable of making amazing difficult plays and then muffing easy ones, but the potential is there to play all 3 outfield positions adequately.

 

Gomez is a little less experienced than Milledge. He is better defensively and not as developed offensively. But he is fast…faster than Reyes by Reyes' own admission. If he can develop enough to find ways to get on base more consistently, he could be awesome.

 

Fernando Martinez is a chip we would probably want to hold on to right now for a couple of different reasons. 1.) His youth makes his potential hard to judge, meaning his ceiling may still be unlimited right now. 2.) The names Milledge and Gomez are being thrown around in every trade rumor for a starting pitcher that the Mets are involved in. F-Mart is a nice chip to have if one or both of them get dealt as we may not need him now, but possibly down the road.

 

Heilman is a tough one. He is a major arm in our bullpen for 2008. It's no secret that he does not want to be a reliever and would probably lobby to be a starter if he were to be traded. I like the kid and think he is a fine setup man…and with our bullpen being one of our weaker links down the stretch this past season, he would be sorely missed and would need to be replaced. I'm not saying he is untouchable, but I would consider him a major piece of any trade being talked about.

 

Speaking for myself, I am not interested in Weeks or Hall. Not that they aren't fine players, but a) I don't think the Brewers have any reason to give up either of them and b) I don't see a major need that they would fill on the Mets. It looks like Castillo may re-sign in New York as of this morning, making both of them less valuable to us anyway.

 

On Sheets himself, whether the Brewers attempt to trade him now or at the deadline is risky. I can see what many of you are saying about competing in 2008…and the Brewers may well get a healthy Sheets for 200IP in 2008 and run away with the NL Central (in which case, I don't see Milwaukee trading him). However, Sheets could go on the DL again early in the year making him far less valuable at the deadline…or worse yet, he could be injured at the deadline meaning the Brewers may get nothing. Of course, if that last scenario were to happen, his overall FA value may drop to a price that the Brewers are comfortable with.

 

Here are the firm offers I would be willing to make at this time:

 

Milledge/Humber for Sheets

Pelfrey/Gomez for Sheets

Humber/Gomez for Sheets

 

I'm open to any counter offers or other negotiations.

[Roscoe Chill]

If the Brewers are going to wait until July to trade Sheets, then it would mean they would be giving up on 2008 for sure wouldn't it? Because it would mean they were out of it. And my guess if they were out of it in July, that would probably mean Sheets has been on the shelf...and then he'd have little vaule, or decreased value wouldn't he? And if he was healthy all year and they were still out of it, God help us.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think all those offers miss the mark Transmonk. The problem is, that as has been stated, the Brewers are flush with bottom of rotation guys, so adding Pelfrey or Humber isn't that appealing.

 

The Brewers' needs are veteran bullpen help (which is why Heilman's name is mentioned by Brewer fans), veteran number 2 hitter, preferably from the left side who is an OF (Endy Chavez not quite that guy), and a young major league ready catcher who projects as a starter. If they were to give up Sheets and not fill those two of those needs (which those offers don't do), they'd want a young starter with a higher ceiling in that deal.

 

Unless they had another team that really covets Gomez or Milledge that could meet what the Brewers want, I don't see a deal happening.

 

Now a Sheets/Turnbow for Milledge/Heilman might get me to reconsider.

[Oldcity]

I'd decline all three of those offers as well. I'd need Heilman.

[TransMonk]

JohnBriggs12 wrote:

Now a Sheets/Turnbow for Milledge/Heilman might get me to reconsider.

I would agree to that deal. So I'll throw it out there as a firm offer:

 

Milledge/Heilman for Sheets/Turnbow

[homer]

I think you'd need to throw in some prospects as well. Basically you're saying Milledge for Sheets straight up and Turbow for Heilman. Turnbow for Heilman favors Milwaukee but not enough to offset the advantage the Mets have with Sheets for Milledge.

[brosto1]

I would be fine with Gomez and Pelfrey for Sheets, but would prefer to get a reliever like Joe Smith worked into the deal. I like Heilman and Milledge, but not enough to trade Sheets and Turnbow for them. Personally I will take the 6 or 8 awful outings a year from Turnbow for the other outings where he is nails.

[logan82]

Milledge/Humber for Sheets

Pelfrey/Gomez for Sheets

Humber/Gomez for Sheets

Have to try for somebody besides Sheets.

[twobrewers]

I like Heilman and Milledge, but not enough to trade Sheets and Turnbow for them.

I liked the other trade offers more. Heilman is better than Turnbow - but Milledge for Sheets would favor the Mets way too much. The only way that trade works is if Heilman plays as a starter for us. (Of course that is possible, but he has never pitched more than 108 innings. So projecting him as a starter has a definate risk)

Pelfrey/Milledge for Sheets would be my asking price.

 

It was mentioned that Pelfrey or Humber only gives us more bottom of the rotation starters - which is certainly something we don't need. However, a bottom of the rotation starter with a high ceiling is WAY different than Claudio Vargas. I also still like Milledge's potential. I know he has had attitude problems that will discount his value to many teams. I just feel with the mature players the Brewers have (Prince as the leader, along with Weeks, Hall etc) that Milledge would be kept in line.

 

If we wanted to avoid the Milledge drama we could also just take the offer of Pelfrey/Gomez.

 

Honestly, I think a trade makes sense. However, most on this board are not willing to take that 1/2 step back with the chance of going 2 steps forward.

[And That]

I've just skimmed the thread, but I haven't seen Chris Capuano's name brought up much. He or Dave Bush would be more legit targets for the Mets, given that we pretty much need a SP back in a deal if we trade Sheets, and while I'd love to see if Heilman could do it, I don't want to burn Sheets to see.

 

I would think about some iteration of a Capuano for Joe Smith and a prospect deal, though.

[billyhallfan]

i'm sorry, but i want nothing to do with milledge. i remember when the mets were playing in miller park, and milledge was in center, and waited back on fly balls on purpose just so he could dive for them, I don't want him, and especially, if i am giving up sheets.

[sbrylski]

How about Johnny Estrada for Mota?

[Oldcity]

Forget Ben Sheets... You just got Johnny Estrada!

[TransMonk]

Well, I didn't even think to offer that one.

 

Strange deal....a catcher was needed and a Mota needed to traded...but I have to say I'm surprised.

 

Would there have been any takers if I would have proposed that deal before it happened?

[sbrylski]

Would there have been any takers if I would have proposed that deal before it happened?

 

Nope. General consensus here is that we hoped to get a little bit more, especially because we had some leverage without having a replacement for Estrada inked. Most here think Estrada for Mota + our expected FA signing of Jason Kendall is a rather lateral move.