Hall possibly to Atlanta?

[hauser42]

The difference between Francoeur and Gross/Dillon (Mench) next year is nil. Francoeur is a poormans' Markakis

 

No way is Franceour in this group. He has an upside while only Gross has any upside out of this group. Franceour is right with Markakis.

 

Franceour is improving his batting and eye and has a ton of tools in the tool box. He is an upgrade over Billy Hall. Franceour would allow this team to have a CFer with him or Hart playing there and Hall on another team.

[sbrylski]

The Brave will NEVER give up Francouer of Frankfertuer or Franks n Beans (However you spell his name). The Brave will NOT Trade Franks and Beans for almost anyone!

Says the media. I've heard within the organization, some don't believe he's such a superstar, and they're probably right. He is still a decent player with upside to become a upper 800's OPS, which is very good, but not MVP quality or anything. And that production from corner OF is not untouchable.

[endaround]

The difference between Francoeur and Gross/Dillon (Mench) next year is nil. Francoeur is a poormans' Markakis

No way is Franceour in this group. He has an upside while only Gross has any upside out of this group. Franceour is right with Markakis.

 

Franceour is improving his batting and eye and has a ton of tools in the tool box. He is an upgrade over Billy Hall. Franceour would allow this team to have a CFer with him or Hart playing there and Hall on another team.

No way? Based on what? His mediocre performance to date? Gabe Gross' ZIPS projection .264/.358/.426. Hall's ZIPS projection .270/.336/.475. Dillon's ZIPS projection .280/.338/.449. Francoeur last season? .288/.338/.444 Right with Markakis? Markakis is a whole two months older and actually put up good seasons while in MLB. Francoeur does not improve the team next year.

[danzig6767]

The difference between Francoeur and Gross/Dillon (Mench) next year is nil. Francoeur is a poormans' Markakis

No way is Franceour in this group. He has an upside while only Gross has any upside out of this group. Franceour is right with Markakis.

 

Franceour is improving his batting and eye and has a ton of tools in the tool box. He is an upgrade over Billy Hall. Franceour would allow this team to have a CFer with him or Hart playing there and Hall on another team.

No way? Based on what? His mediocre performance to date? Gabe Gross' ZIPS projection .264/.358/.426. Hall's ZIPS projection .270/.336/.475. Dillon's ZIPS projection .280/.338/.449. Francoeur last season? .288/.338/.444 Right with Markakis? Markakis is a whole two months older and actually put up good seasons while in MLB. Francoeur does not improve the team next year.

 

Francoeur wouldn't help much if ZIPS projections were factual through a crystal ball and what they project is exactly what will happen. He's 23 though, not a 32 year old guy with a long track record where projections are generally more likely to be close to what actually happens.

To say Francoeur helps the team nil, not i doubt he helps much next year, is assuming you know for sure these ZIPS projections are what's actually set to happen. He did double his walk rate last year, he very well could jump from 42 walks to 60 walks, or maybe he stays around 40. It would by no means also surprise me to see Francoeur's slugging take a good sized jump. Bill Hall's OPS dropped .160 points last year, did ZIPS project that or did you? Next year it wouldn't surprise me at all if Hall ends up posting a .780ish OPS or .880.

Guys like Francoeur is where a GM/his scouts can really earn their money. He's still very young with lots of physical gifts but holes in his game. Bigger power potential could be there, he's a very skilled defensive player, and his walk rate doubled. How much better he'll become IMO has a sizable range from only a little better to alot better given his young age and skill level. Hell, look at the jump Bill Hall made at age 24, i doubt ZIPS projected his .837 OPS in 2005.

I'm sure if Melvin did acquire Francoeur, he and his scouts would feel Jeff is a young player who will just keep getting better, maybe substantially better. I know i find his potential upside intriguing, especially after seeing him double his walk rate.

 

[endaround]

I'm not saying he won't get better and in three years might be a good outfielder. Just in time to be traded. But if the Brewers are going to do a big shuffling act and not improve their infield defense while not getting better for next year, what's the point?

[hauser42]

I'm not saying he won't get better and in three years might be a good outfielder. Just in time to be traded. But if the Brewers are going to do a big shuffling act and not improve their infield defense while not getting better for next year, what's the point?

 

Hall is not going to help the infield defense and I dont see a real problem with the defense. Braun is going to get better he has only played 3B for a little while and Weeks has shown improvement over the last two year. Do you want to replace Prince??

 

In the 3 year window you are talking about this team could be winning a WS and Hall will be that much toward the end of his career.

[TooLiveBrew]

Braun is going to get better he has only played 3B for a little while and Weeks has shown improvement over the last two year. Do you want to replace Prince??

To compare Braun & Weeks to themselves, though, is to ignore the point that they stink, defensively. Has Rickie improved? Yes, to be sure. Will Braun? It'd be nearly impossible for him to be as bad in 2008 as he was in 2007, but no one knows for sure. Just because Rickie stinks less than he used to doesn't make him good - or even average, and the same'd go for Braun.

 

Prince isn't in the same category as Weeks & Braun, since he isn't as bad defensively as they are.

[dadofandrew]

The Lee comp is a good one, and it was noted Lee was older. Most 23 year-olds do not start out like Braun, they have a learning curve. He's average now, and should improve for 4-5 seasons.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yea, if Francouer can keep his walks north of 40 each year, he should eventually be a guaranteed .850 OPS, with a chance at more. Add in strong defense, and he should be quite a player - just not a megastar, which is ok.

[logan82]

Prince isn't in the same category as Weeks & Braun, since he isn't as bad defensively as they are.

I disagree with that. Fielder always shows up around the bottom of defensive lists especially if you only compare him to 1B.

[TooLiveBrew]

True, logan - but I've always chalked some of his lowered ranking(s) due to the fact that he's had to play with Weeks at 2B & Braun at 3B. I don't think Prince is a good fielder, I just don't think he's as bad as Weeks & Braun.

[mothershipconnection]

I personally don't think Prince is as bad as either of those guys, but even if he is it makes way less difference at first.

[logan82]

Yeah some of it is I am sure. On the same note, he doesn't exactly make either of them better. I would say Fielder and Weeks are both close to average, but Braun was flat out the worst defender in MLB last year.

[TooLiveBrew]

I can jive with that, logan. Yea, that's right - jive.

[hauser42]

Braun is going to get better he has only played 3B for a little while and Weeks has shown improvement over the last two year. Do you want to replace Prince??

To compare Braun & Weeks to themselves, though, is to ignore the point that they stink, defensively. Has Rickie improved? Yes, to be sure. Will Braun? It'd be nearly impossible for him to be as bad in 2008 as he was in 2007, but no one knows for sure. Just because Rickie stinks less than he used to doesn't make him good - or even average, and the same'd go for Braun.

 

Prince isn't in the same category as Weeks & Braun, since he isn't as bad defensively as they are.

Braun's issus is many foot work something that just needs work. He made some very amazing plays last year and that boils down to instincts and to have those good instincts and reactions shows he has a very good chance of gettting better. His arm plays well at 3B so he has the tools just needs some times.

 

Weeks plays a tougher spot since he has to turn to wich I think is not his problem. Weeks seems to me to not get a good read of the bat and thus looks lost at times out there.

 

 

[endaround]

If Braun hit like he fields no one would say "just give him some time"

[hauser42]

If Braun hit like he fields no one would say "just give him some time"

 

And if Ben Sheets could only make 5 starts a year we would not talk about giving him 10-15 mil a year.

 

Braun is a huge slugger so it is worth giving him sometime at 3B to see if he can make it. His value would drop a little if moved to the OF since it is a little easier to find corner OFers that can hit.

[Fatter than Joey]

Hall is not going to help the infield defense and I don't see a real problem with the defense.

 

Our defense as it stands today is a problem. Without changes there is no reason to think that our rotation won't give up more runs in 2008.

 

I personally don't think Prince is as bad as either of those guys, but even if he is it makes way less difference at first.

 

I think Prince is a poor 1b -- I think though he is cemented at 1b, i.e., we can't move him to the OF, so there really is not an opportunity

to upgrade our 1b defense, much less talk about it -- and it probably isn't the highest priority.

 

Weeks seems to me to not get a good read of the bat and thus looks lost at times out there.

 

Weeks is a below average 2b, and I agree he has range issues.

 

Braun was flat out the worst defender in MLB last year

 

Yeah --he was putrid -- worst 3b since 1910 -- there have been a lot of Wes Helms types in that span, all better than Braun.

 

His arm plays well at 3B so he has the tools just needs some times.

 

Many, many stats and scouts suggest Braun does not have the tools to play 3b.

[Fatter than Joey]

Braun is a huge slugger so it is worth giving him sometime at 3B to see if he can make it. His value would drop a little if moved to the OF since it is a little easier to find corner OFers that can hit.

 

Braun's defense eats a HUGE chunk of his offensive production, as evidenced by the ROY vote and many stats.

 

If Braun continues to produce as he has he would be a top-3 corner OF -- You'd be very hard pressed to find corner OFs

that could hit like him.

 

If Braun can play average D in the OF -- He'd have a ton more value than ha has now.