Hall possibly to Atlanta?

[Robideaux]

Birthdate:

Matt LaPorta 01/08/85

Jeff Francoeur 01/08/84

 

It's a bit early to dismiss Francoeur. He got on-base more than Hall last year. He's 23, and he hit 29 HR at age 22. He's got tools and he's really young. Sometimes that works out spectacularly, sometimes it doesn't. If somebody's starting in the majors at age 21, it usually means the player's going to be really good or that the team is really bad. The Braves won the division in 2005.

[brettac1]

I'd definitely prefer to have Johnson and Soriano, and not Francoeur. Johnson would be excellent to slide into the leadoff or second spot in the lineup. He's pretty much exactly what they need from the offensive perspective. However, where would he play? CF? RF with Hart moving to CF? 2B with Weeks going to CF? Obviously, Soriano would close.

[Tbadder]

I agree Johnson and Soriano, but even if it were those two I still think the Braves are getting ripped off. I'd trade Hall for any of those guys even up. This seems too good to be true. Lets hope.

[endaround]

I'd definitely prefer to have Johnson and Soriano, and not Francoeur. Johnson would be excellent to slide into the leadoff or second spot in the lineup. He's pretty much exactly what they need from the offensive perspective. However, where would he play? CF? RF with Hart moving to CF? 2B with Weeks going to CF? Obviously, Soriano would close.

I'd assume either Weeks or Johnson would be headed to 3B.

 

[PilprinBuddha]

Soriano and Francouer for Sheets and Hall is too little in return - eventhough I love Francouer. Add Johnson to the equation or remove Sheets and add Cappy or Bush then It's a solid move IMHO. I don't like Hall in CF and I really don't like him anywhere other than 2B.

 

I know Francouer is in the middle of a contract talks...maybe something went wrong there. I also don't think the new GM likes him all that much for some reason. He has a great agent who will not pull the Boras BS. I REALLY want him!

[splitterpfj]

I would be very happy with Francouer playing right field, and hitting sixth for the Brewers. Bump Hart to center, and I think you've got a clear defensive upgrade, and I think you lose zero offense.

[areacodes]

I just got a Hall jersey for my b-day, so please, dont trade him.

 

Well RyDogg, looks like you just sealed Hall's fate... He'll be traded before you get a chance to sport your new jersey at Miller Park.

[pogokat]

0 mention of this in the atlanta media...the braves are looking for a stopgap in center and are not completely rebuilding...

[Weirdos19]

If we are concentrating on improving defense, a deal that brings Francouer here would be good. Pretty sure Hall would be in the mix.

 

Braves get: Hall, Bush, and Gwynn

 

Brewers get: Francouer, Johnson, Soriano

 

Pretty sure the Braves need to pick up a starter or two this offseason. Smoltz, Hudson, Glavine (probably ends up in ATL), Bush, Chuck James would be a decent rotation.

 

Johnson definately would go to the outfield, his first season in the infield was last year. Johnson, Hart, Francouer in the outfield with Soriano setting up Coco. Nice deal.

[Oldcity]

I haven't really seen anything proposed here that measures up; a deal that includes Sheets is too lopsided in the Braves' favor and a deal that doesn't include Sheets is too lopsided in the Brewers' favor. Hall, Bush and Gwynn would never be enough to get Francouer, Johnson and Soriano.

 

Kelly Johnson would be great though.

[trwi7]

I haven't really seen anything proposed here that measures up; a deal that includes Sheets is too lopsided in the Braves' favor and a deal that doesn't include Sheets is too lopsided in the Brewers' favor. Hall, Bush and Gwynn would never be enough to get Francouer, Johnson and Soriano.

 

Kelly Johnson would be great though.

 

If we could do just Hall, Bush and Gwynn for Johnson and Soriano I'd do that too.

[Oldcity]

Agreed... That's probably the most feasible of anything suggested in this thread, although that's a pretty big blockbuster so I'd be really surprised to see something like that.

[splitterpfj]

The Braves are getting Glavine back, how many more starting pitchers will they need?

[trwi7]

The Braves are getting Glavine back, how many more starting pitchers will they need?

 

What do they have now? Hudson, Smoltz, Glavine, James, Jurrjens and Hampton who you can't count on. Maybe use Jojo Reyes as trade bait along with Lillibridge to get someone like Crawford.

[davego]

...Except Francoeur would be much, much better in the field then a Gross/Mench combo.

[JohnBriggs12]

"Currenly Francouer is the offensive equal to a Gross/Dillon platoon."

 

And we base this on what? A few hundred scattered AB's from two guys, one his 30's, that have never played regularly in the big leagues vs. a guy who before he's turned 24 has back to back 100 RBI seasons as a regular in the major leagues?

 

Look Francouer has some offensive flaws to be sure, but he's an emerging star who turns 24 in January. If there's anybody that Francouer could be compared to on the Brewers offensively it's Hall, at least the Hall of 2006. But Francouer got to that level at a younger age than Billy.

 

Hall for Francouer would be a no-brainer and I love Hall.

[endaround]

Based on what? Francouer had a good 257 ABs in 2005. In 2006 he hit .260/.293/.499, in 2007 he hit .293/.338/.444. Thats just not good for a corner OFer. Hall 2006? Not even Hall 2005. More like Hardy 2007 (.277/.323/.463).

[dadofandrew]

He's still very young though. He is walking more each year. It's easy to predict stardom if he's solid as a 23 year-old.

[Big Reed]

I can't believe the number of people who are cutting down a 24 year old who had 642 atbats last year and improved his batting average 30 points and drove in over 100 runs. but yet, he's overhyped? and you predict next year he'll revert back to hitting .270? Why would his batting average decline? because Hall's did, you think Francouer's will as well?

 

Most 24 year olds are still in AA, and here's a guy who's 24 and already has 3 years starting at the major league level. but still, you say hes' not as good as advertised? he doesn't steal enough bases? the guy made 5 errors? The kid had 19 assists which is more than all 5 brewers outfielders combined last year. What is not to like? We are not talking about a jeffery Hammonds here. We are talking about a great young outfielder. Dare I mention this guy who you say doesn't like to walk had more walks than Billy Hall did last year? it was 42-40!

 

I'd like to hear your cut downs on Miguel Cabrera. I'm sure you would start with his bad attitude. then you'd use some stats like he's never hit 50 homers like Prince has. Fortunately Cabrera's OBP is over 400.

 

I think a little more objectivity is needed when evaluating other team's players and a little less homerism is needed when thinking about your beloved brewers. There is a reason the brewers did not win 90 games last year. It was not all Ned's fault.

[endaround]

They are 33 players 25 and under who got enoughs PAs to qualify last season. Francouer ranked 23rd of those 33 in OPS. As a corner OFer. And yes hit .290 but he didn't get on baae and hit for below par power. Not sure why people are so enthralled with the guy.

[Robideaux]

I think many people can't get past the inordinate amount of hype surrounding Francoeur during his rookie year. Writers were putting him in the hall of fame after 100 at bats in the big leagues. Was he as good as advertised? No, of course not. That doesn't necessarily mean that he won't ever be good though. You simply can't ignore his age and his upward trending walk rate.

 

 

When a player is 23, you can't only judge him on what he has done, but you need to make an educated guess at what he will do in the future.

Lets look at this objectively.

Can he hit for power? Yes

Can he hit for average? Yes

Can he play defense? Yes

Will he get on base enough to be a positive offensive force? Unknown

 

What we do know is that at the age of 23 he nearly doubled his walks in the same number of plate appearances as the year before. If he could add another 10 walks to his total next season, all other things being equal, his OBP would be over .350. I'm no expert and I can't divine the future, but in my opinion Francoeur's career offensive contributions will dwarf Hall's. If Hall's a shortstop or a slick fielding CF, then maybe the gulf narrows, but just from an offensive perspective I'd take Francoeur over Hall ten times out of ten.

[TooLiveBrew]

They are 33 players 25 and under who got enoughs PAs to qualify last season. Francouer ranked 23rd of those 33 in OPS. As a corner OFer. And yes hit .290 but he didn't get on baae and hit for below par power. Not sure why people are so enthralled with the guy.

Because, apparently...

 

He is walking more every season.

3 times in the same thread! The thing is, he really isn't "walking more every season." He did happen to up his BB total to a professional career-high 42 in 2007, but he hasn't been steadily increasing his BB rate each season. It's fluctated around 'very poor' & 'poor' each season until 2007, where it was more like 'average' to 'below average'.

 

As already noted, he's young and has a high power ceiling. His D is strong, and he can certainly hit for BA. There's really not a whole lot I don't like about him, but he doesn't help the 2 most important areas in which the Brewers need to improve in 2008 - infield D & OBP.

 

Another problem is that for a low-BB guy, he strikes out a TON. If he could keep his K's down to below 100 anually, he could be a poor-man's Carlos Lee. Who know how he'll turn out, but unless that BB/K ratio can improve in some way, he'll continue to frustrate offensively.

[davemakovec]

Rickie Weeks is also walking more every season. We're talking about young guys dripping with potential. High ceilings go a long way in contributing to trade value.

[brewerfan82]

Another problem is that for a low-BB guy, he strikes out a TON. If he could keep his K's down to below 100 anually, he could be a poor-man's Carlos Lee. Who know how he'll turn out, but unless that BB/K ratio can improve in some way, he'll continue to frustrate offensively.

I like the Carlos Lee comparison. Through first three seasons:

Carlos Lee: .287/.327/.472 64 HR (25 AB/HR), 251 K (6.5 AB/K), 89 BB (18 AB/BB) in 1622 AB

Jeff Francouer: .280/.319/.463 62 HR (25 AB/HR), 319 K (4.9 AB/K), 76 BB (20 AB/BB) in 1550 AB

 

 

Throw in the fact that Carlos Lee was 2 years older over that span, I think it's a pretty fair comparison.

 

Over the next three seasons, Lee put up: .288/.352/.504 88 HR (19 AB/HR), 250 K (7 AB/K), 166 BB (10.3 AB/BB)

 

 

Lee took a huge step in his plate discipline and if Francoeur can do the same you can easily see why people are high on him. Obviously this isn't a given, but he is hitting a point in his career that is primed for taking that step.

[nBo Baseball]

The Brave will NEVER give up Francouer of Frankfertuer or Franks n Beans (However you spell his name). The Brave will NOT Trade Franks and Beans for almost anyone!