Erik Bedard

[endaround]

Take out Hall and put in Hardy

[jackalope02ca]

Villy and Hall isn't even going to be close to getting it done for Bedard. He's a true ace.

 

While I'd refuse to include Gallardo I would think they might have interest in Parra, Gamel, Villaneuva and Hardy. If I'm Baltimore I hang up the phone if I'm offered much less than that and I demand Hardy be a part of the package.

[fondybrewfan]

I would do the Villenueva, Hall, Gamel, and someone like Escobar for Bedard in a heartbeat

[joepepsi]

Capuano, Hall, Parra, and another prospect, possibly Gwynn or a pitcher might do it. The Orioles currently have Tike Redman as their starting CF'er, so Gwynn might be a good option for them.

 

Given the revelation the two teams were talking serious about Tejada, it's no stretch to think Bedard discussions have been on going.

 

For the record, Bedard has been on the DL every one of his major league seasons other than 2006. Last year was an oblique muscle and he was basically shut down the for the end of the season.

[Tbadder]

Yeah, I think the most plausible trade revolves around Hardy and Villy along with two prospects like Gamel and Rogers. I'd be on board for this swap assuming we'd get two high picks when he left.

[yoshii8]

So now that we saw what Haren fetched, what is Bedard going to get? I think that he will get traded to the Dodgers, for some sort of Matt Kemp package.

[recte44]

The Brewers have all the pieces to be a player in the Bedard trade talks, it's now just a matter of if they want to or not.

[yoshii8]

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but if they were already talking to Baltimore, do you think that they might also be discussing Bedard?

 

If we can get him w/ a Gwynn, Parra or Villanueva, Gamel, Escobar and Stetter, would you do it? Or is that too much? I thought it would have to be more, but when I saw the Haren trade, I figured this would be somewhat comparable.

 

I'd be very excited about our staff. Sheets, Bedard, Gallardo, Suppan and Parra/Villanueva. Then we still would have Capuano/Bush/Vargas to be dealt for our 3B/LF void. I know its giving up a lot of our farm system. But we still would have a ton of good OF's, and Green/Heether at 3rd in the system, and 6 draft picks in the first 2 rounds next year. That would be very exciting.

[recte44]

I'd be all in if we could do it without Parra or Gallardo being involved.

 

Villanueva, Gamel, Hall for Bedard? I'd have to seriously consider that one. then we sign Cameron for CF (Gwynn starts there in April during Cameron's suspension) and trade Vargas or Capuano + another prospect for Rolen. Trade the other one for a respectable backup catcher and/or specs, or put them in the S5 slot and give Parra another half season in AAA.

 

End of offseason= division championship and potential World Series run.

 

Lineup:

2B Weeks

3B Rolen

LF Braun

1B Fielder

RF Hart

CF Cameron (Gwynn/Gross during suspension)

SS Hardy

C Kendall

pitcher

 

 

Bench: Rivera (or trade pickup), Counsell, Dillon, Gwynn, Gross (Rottino)

S1: Sheets

S2: Bedard

S3: Gallardo

S4: Suppan

S5: Parra

 

LR: Bush

CL: Gagne

SU: Riske/Turnbow

MR: Torres/Mota/Shouse

[Ennder]

03 - left elbow surgery

05 - strained left MCL

07 - strained oblique

 

He also had arm related soreness in 04 and 06 but it didnt' DL him.

 

That is a worse injury history than Sheets has. I think Bedard is more valuable than Sheets too, but lets not go overboard.

[jackalope02ca]

I'd start by offering Escobar, Gamel, Villaneuva, Parra, and a low level Helena or West Virginia guy with some upside. I'm pretty sure we'd have to include Hardy though to get it done and pull Escobar and the low level guy back out of the deal.

Bedard is one of those quality special players that you have to get if they are available. Your going to have to give up some quality to get them and I wouldn't at all be opposed to including Hardy in a package for him.

[twobrewers]

That is a worse injury history than Sheets has. I think Bedard is more valuable than Sheets too, but lets not go overboard.

I am starting to agree with you. Bedard is significantly better than Sheets.

 

When he is healthy, he might be one of the top 5 starters in the game. Why would Baltimore trade a true "ace"? Sure they are a few years away from competing - but they have money to spend. (Unlike the A's, who traded Haren because they do have a limited budget and were not going to compete)

 

I believe Baltimore is concerned about his injury history. Why else would they have him on the market?

[Oldcity]

I'm curious as to why so many think Parra is more valuable than Villanueva? CV has proven more at the major league level, is younger and doesn't have Parra's injury history.

[twobrewers]

I'm curious as to why so many think Parra is more valuable than Villanueva?

Parra has a higher ceiling.

 

Parra has better "stuff" and is left-handed.

 

Though, I do agree. I think Villanueva is more valuable currently - as he has proven more without the injury history.

[recte44]

^^^^^^

What he said.

[Oldcity]

I'm not so sure. Just because he throws harder doesn't offset that injury concern for me. I actually think he makes a great trade candidate this off-season since he's healthy.

[pogokat]

I agree stevo...Parra's t the highest trade value of his career...and there's very little guarnteed from a guy that's never thrown 150 innings...

 

now's the time to trade him, if you are going to...

 

otherwise, keep him for years...

 

combined with capano and gamel, he could probably bring in a very nice player

[recte44]

When's the last time we actually developed a top notch starting pitcher besides Ben Sheets? Still thinking? Me too.

 

You simply don't trade Gallardo or Parra, period.

[Oldcity]

Well they've already developed Parra. Does that mean they can't trade him if it helps the team?

 

And I agree with you on Gallardo, but again, he's younger, injury free and has proven more than Parra.

[jackalope02ca]

Parra could be at his highest value ever at this point. He hasn't shown he can pitch regularly in the majors yet but has shown great potential. He's also one of the those guys who has come back from major surgery. If there is a major player like Bedard available you trade a guy like Parra in a package for him without even blinking.

[gregmag]

When's the last time we actually developed a top notch starting pitcher besides Ben Sheets? Still thinking? Me too.

 

You simply don't trade Gallardo or Parra, period.

Yeah, I don't get this at all. Whether or not you've developed zero good SPs or twelve in the past ten years has nothing to do with whether trading a homegrown SP makes more or less sense than keeping him. You evaluate what you have, however you got it, and you figure out its highest value. Gallardo looks like a stud -- he's close to priceless. Parra, for reasons others have given, could be more valuable as trade bait. I'm not convinced -- he's talented, and I'd want the brain trust to be pretty sure they didn't trust his health. But I expect they may have had a conversation or two about that.

Greg.

 

[recte44]

You don't get it? We're a "small market team", for what it's worth. That means we need to keep our inexpensive commodities who will far exceed their salary value.

 

Gallardo and Parra are both making minimum, and could be top of the rote guys. Why trade them for more expensive guys?

[gregmag]

Of course that's a fair point, but I think you're viewing your own insight in too narrow a compass. As a small market team that wants to win, we need everything, and we need it as inexpensively as possible. We need good starting pitching at a good price, and yes, the clearest way to get that is by developing it. But, as we've seen in recent years, you can also get good cheap starters by trading for them (Capuano) or making genius waiver claims (Davis).

 

The major point is that, at any given moment, you look at what resources you have, and you figure out how you can turn those resources into wins at a price you can afford. Why, in that inquiry, should it matter where a given resource came from? The reason not to trade somebody isn't that you developed him in-house; the reason not to trade somebody is that he's too good to trade. If you have eight starting pitchers and no third baseman, you trade a pitcher for a 3B. If the pitcher who can get you the 3B you want is homegrown, if losing him won't hurt you too much, and if the deal works with the budget -- then you make the deal.

 

I agree with you that, in general, young, cheap starters are a precious commodity. But the point others are making is that Parra may not be so precious, because of his injury history. I'm not sure I agree with them in the end, but all I'm saying is that your absolute declaration misses an important consideration that people on the other side of the argument are rightly emphasizing.

 

Greg.

[recte44]

I completely understand your reasoning. I'm not saying my opinion is fact, I'm just stating my opinion. If I was Doug (which I'm clearly not, I don't have the mustache or the "And That" vocabulary), I wouldn't trade either of those pitchers for anything less than an established ace with a clean medical history.

[jackalope02ca]

Hate to make the comparison but at this point Manny Parra = Nick Neughebauer a few years back and we all know how that turned out. Manny Parra is the type of player you trade if you can get someone hooked in too overpay. About 1 in 10 times the team trading Parra gets burned badly. The other 9 they either break even or do better.