Rolen Trade, Latest: Glaus/Rolen swap (reply #795)

[Bernie Crewer]

I'm on board with the Rolen & Franklin for Cappy, Mench, and TGJ trade if St. Louis picks up enough of the contract to have the Brewers only be on the line for 7-8m per year. My mouth waters at the prospect of having Rolen playing the hot corner for the Crew and coming up clutch like he did so many times against us. Sure there is risk if he really is not healthy, but this is the only way we are able to have a chance at this guy. Everyone thought Mike Lowell was done in Florida after a couple injury plagued years and he was thrown in as a salary dump as part of the Beckett deal to Boston...look how that one turned out! Lowell got his career righted and cashed in. I could see Rolen doing the same in Milwaukee. I look at it as trading three guys from the Crew who are not presently part of the picture, and other than possibly Gwynn are not part of the future...which is a stretch as well given the Brewer's handling of him to date.

 

Take the risk Doug, as the upside is very high, but make sure you make the Cards eat 1/3rd of that contract and then get us a gold glove third baseman! Trading Cappy is a risk...but I just do not see the Crew ever truly trusting him again after his melt down this year. A change of scenery will probably be beneficial to both actually...

[crewcrazy]

What is the beef between Rolan and Tony anyway?

If I remember correctly, Tony tends to think of Rolen as a guy who doesn't like to play hurt and thought Rolen took his sweet time rehabbing his old shoulder injury a couple years ago, while Rolen has always thought La Russa was unnecessarily tough on him compared to Edmonds and Pujols. The strained relationship became public and ugly when La Russa didn't start Rolen in one of the early games of the 2006 NLCS. Of course, La Russa and Rolen are pretty much considered Class A jerks in their own right, so who really knows what the real problem is.

[brettac1]

Of course, La Russa and Rolen are pretty much considered Class A jerks in their own right, so who really knows what the real problem is.

 

Yeah, they both are jerks, and jerks don't tend to play well with fellow jerks. LaRussa has been hard on a lot of guys in the past for the same kind of stuff (J.D. Drew), but looking at Rolen's numbers during the years when LaRussa thought he was a sissy boy, it's pretty obvious the guy was hurt.

[mrwisconsin]

Jsonline is reporting that nothing is close and Melvin has not talked to St Loius in a few weeks. The Cards would have to eat some of this contract and Rolon would have to waive his no trade contract.

[brewers255]

Thats odd, Peter Gammons and Buster Onley said that the deal was almost done and it depends on the cash. Someone's lying and I think it's Doug Melvin.

[trwi7]

Jsonline is reporting that nothing is close and Melvin has not talked to St Loius in a few weeks. The Cards would have to eat some of this contract and Rolon would have to waive his no trade contract.

 

So when's the press conference for Rolen? Kill two birds with one stone and make it Monday with Riske?

[twobrewers]

Haudricourt's blog also says..

That doesn't mean the trade won't happen at some point, however.

 

Regarding trading to division rivals, that would certainly be unusual. but not unheard of. However, I really surprised the Phillies aren't interested. They are a bigger market team, that can afford to make a few mistakes. And I can't imagine they are that happy with Wes Helms as their 3B.

 

Maybe the Cardinals just like Capuano better than anything Philadelphia has to offer.

[brettac1]

Where there's smoke there's probably fire, I think.

 

And like Haudricourt said, Rolen would waive the no-trade to get out of StL, so that's probably a non-issue.

 

Where's RedbirdRay? Would seem that maybe he could shed some light on this whole situation (like further on the LaRussa rift).

 

Regarding the Phillies, I think they hate Scott Rolen, and vice versa.

[LUKE232323]

I think Rolen is a risk the Brewers have to take given the possible payback they can get. At age 32 he still has a few good years left if he can shake the injury bug. He's one of the better defensive 3B in the league, and has a career OPS of .878. Improves D and the lineup, in my opinion. If you can also get Franklin with him, makes it a no brainer.

Lineup:

Weeks
Hardy
Braun
Fielder
Hart
Rolen
Hall
Kendall

Rotation:

Sheets
Gallardo
Suppan
Villanueva
Parra or Bush

Bullpen:

Franklin
Riske
Turnbow
McClung
Mota
Shouse
Parra, Bush, or Aquino

I'd take that team any day, don't know about you guys. I am hoping this deal gets done.

[twobrewers]

Of course, La Russa and Rolen are pretty much considered Class A jerks in their own right, so who really knows what the real problem is.

Can I ask what about Rolen makes him a jerk?

 

I haven't heard any stories about that. Does he generally have problems in the clubhouse with other players? Does he beat his wife? Is an older Elijah Dukes? Or is it just because he doesn't get along with La Russa? (I don't follow other teams enought to know about incoming players)

[cooprules]

I was wondering the same thing. A story from when he was traded to the Cards provides some insight.

 

2002_Rolen traded to Cardinals

 

Larry Bowa and LaRussa don't seem like the most likable guys but when it happens with 2 different teams you have to wonder a little.

[twobrewers]

Thanks for the link coop...

 

I didn't realize all of that. Of course, the Philadelphia fans hate everyone. But a teammate calling him a "cancer" is concerning. Maybe Suppan could keep him in line.

[gregmag]

LaRussa is merely difficult; Bowa has always struck me as a borderline sociopath. Dallas Green also dissed Rolen pretty hard in Philly, genius baseball man that he is. I don't think Rolen would come back to the Phils to save his life.

 

As long as a guy isn't a Pierzynski/Bradley-grade head case, I wouldn't let character issues stand in the way of a good deal. So he doesn't play hurt? That's a bad thing if it's true, and his injury risk is a lot worse, but as others have said, this is how a good team gets better -- by taking intelligent risks. Rolen has enormous upside and fills a big hole. Like Brett said, you just don't get chances like this very often.

 

BTW, assuming Braun does move to left -- how many teams have ever had a starting OF where all three guys were ex-3Bs?

 

Greg.

[dadofandrew]

Note Doug's use of the phrase, "I haven't talked to the Cadinals in weeks", but no mention that the team has not spoken with them. I bet Gord can use a phone...http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[SoCalBrewfan]

BTW, assuming Braun does move to left -- how many teams have ever had a starting OF where all three guys were ex-3Bs?

 

The Cubs seem to frequently send out a lineup that includes a half-dozen 2b...you have to appreciate the genius of choosing 2b as your key position because there you often find players whose range, arm, and/or bat don't measure up for other positions on the diamond. I'm kind of sad that they missed on Matsui for that exact reason.

[dadofandrew]

I'm sure many teams have had a "all former SS" OF, but 3B can't be that common.

[RockCoCougars]

If St. Louis really wants to do this deal and doesn't want to kick in the cash, the Brewers should force them to take Counsell in the deal as well. This way, the team can clear the nearly 3 million Counsell is owed.

 

Then it would look like this

 

Counsell

Mench

Gwynn

Capuano

 

for

 

Rolen

garbage

[DrWood]

STL is not rebuilding from scratch, so they aren't going to give away Rolen as a bargain. the only reason they are shopping rolen is that TLR and rolen aren't being friendly.

[dpapo]

Here's the latest from Haudricourt,

Rolen rumors won't go away

By Tom Haudricourt

Saturday, Dec 1 2007, 12:16 PM

The rumors that the Brewers will acquire St. Louis third baseman Scott Rolen continue to spread but general manager Doug Melvin told me today he has nothing imminent with the Cardinals.

In fact, Melvin said he hadn't talked to the Cards for a couple of weeks. That doesn't mean the trade won't happen at some point, however.

To make a deal for Rolen work, the Brewers would ask the Cardinals to eat some of the $38 million over three years that he has remaining on his contract. Rolen has a no-trade clause in his contract but probably would waive it because of a fractured relationship with manager Tony La Russa.

The Cardinals are in need of starting pitching and apparently have interest in lefty Chris Capuano, who pitched his way out of the Brewers' rotation late in the 2007 season. The Brewers also are trying to trade outfielder Kevin Mench and might try to include him in any such deal.

If the Brewers acquire Rolen, they would move NL rookie of the year Ryan Braun to left field. That move would work on two levels because the Brewers have a gap to fill in left and Rolen is a much better third baseman than Braun.

We'll see if this heats up next week at the winter meetings in Nashville or if it's just a lot of smoke.

http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2007/12/01/rolen-rumors-won-t-go-away.aspx

 

 

Also from the St. Louis paper,

 

...The Cardinals' entourage is scheduled to arrive Sunday at the Opryland Hotel, the meetings' headquarters. Having signed backup catcher Jason La Rue and Izturis, the club now hopes to fortify its starting rotation through trades. The Cardinals have targeted Milwaukee Brewers lefthander Chris Capuano as one possibility and may add third baseman Scott Rolen to the discussion.

 

Shortly after the club re-signed manager Tony La Russa through 2009, Rolen approached the club about moving him elsewhere.

 

Rolen is coming off a third shoulder operation in less than two years. Capuano required surgery on his non-throwing shoulder after finishing the season with 22 consecutive appearances in Brewers losses. Rolen is owed $36 million through 2010. Capuano is arbitration-eligible.

 

Mozeliak said earlier this month that the club is open to dealing Rolen but denied that a deal was inevitable. "I think right now Scott Rolen is a part of this organization," he said.

 

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/EAC9E2342BE58705862573A400164658?OpenDocument

 

 

May not be anything going on at the moment, but something might heat up. With St. Louis interest in Capuano something might occur between the two teams, if not Rolen, then maybe something else.

[brettac1]

So we have what, at least five pretty credible sources saying something is up here? I'm actually getting excited for the first time in a while.

 

Any chance someone could photoshop a Brewers hat on Rolen's head shot for an avatar for me?

[RockCoCougars]

Dang, they snatched up LaRue, he would have been a perfect backup catcher for the crew. I hadn't heard that.

[dadofandrew]

If St. Louis really wants to do this deal and doesn't want to kick in the cash, the Brewers should force them to take Counsell in the deal as well.

 

 

Except Counsell is a very good reserve IF, and the only backup SS the Crew has.

 

Everyone wants to improve the defense, yet no one wants anyone who hits less than .350/.450.

[brewers255]

Gammons, Onley say something is close to being done but Melvin said that nothings imminent and that he hasn't talked to the cards in 3 weeks. Who do we believe?

[jwill535]

Gammons and Olney, Melvin is never going to say the truth untill it is a100% happening i.e. the guy is signing the contract at that moment. Doug Melvin lives in a world of vague statements and hyperbole, which most GMs do. Its sucks as a fan to want to know exactly whats happening, but thats just not how things work.

[Roscoe Chill]

As Al pointed out, it's what Melvin isn't saying that has me intrigued. If there wasn't at least interest, he would have shot down the rumors. Nothing's IMMINENT? He hasn't spoken to the Cardinals in weeks? Well that means he HAS spoken to the Cardinals doesn't it?

 

EDIT: I also think that trades are a lot different than free agent signings. Melvin has mentioned Andruw Jones and others. But in the case of trades, if they fall through, there's always the guy that was supposed to be traded that wasn't, that's still on your team...that's a factor in comments about trades.