Rolen Trade, Latest: Glaus/Rolen swap (reply #795)

[brewmann04]

I think we don"t need to overpay fro rolen at all and hope Doug is just sitting back and waiting for the cards to come calling.Throwing 3 players for Rolen is a bit much .

[DannoMac21]

Kobe verses rolen comparison.

 

Kobe has a feud with Coach Jackson. Jackson almost quits. Then they make up. then kobe has a fued with the lakers' owner and GM and demands to be traded. then says no, he doesn't want to be traded, then demands to be traded again. the owner tries to trade kobe, but he vetoes every deal saying he doesn't want to go to a team if they give up all their star players to the lakers. the lakers owner says he's not going to just give kobe away for nothing.

 

Rolen has a fued with larussa. Cards ' GM jockety leaves and larussa is about to, but stays. larussa tries to square things wit h rolen, but rolen refuses and demands to be traded rather than play for Larussa. The new cards GM tries to trade rolen, but rolen invokes his no trade clause to squash several potential deals trying to force the GM's hand. the cards GM refuses to just give rolen away. cards ' GM tries to get rolen and larussa to stop their bickering at least publically.

 

To date, neither Kobe or rolen has been traded. they both want out of their current situations, but both have used their veto powers to stop several potential trades. neither one of their GMs is going to give away their Name player. So they are both stuck on what will be mediocre teams.

 

The trade demands for both kobe and Rolen were initiated by Kobe and Rolen and not their respective teams. neither one of their teams really wanted to trade theri player. the only reason the brewers are interested in rolen is because of Rolen and his relationship to Suppan and the hope that if he creates enough havoc, the cards might be willing to give him away at a reduced rate. if rolen was healthy, and had a good relationship with larussa, there would be no trade conversations happening involving Rolen's name.

 

 

I see a lot of similarities between kobe and rolen. they are both players trying to force the hand of their current employers. Kobe wanted the Lakers to fire GM kupchek. Rolen wanted larussa fired. Neither one really wants to leave their team. but they both gave ownership the ultimatum - either he goes or I want out. And so far, both owners have ignored their bluff.

 

That's completely wrong.

 

I'm a monster NBA fan, even more so than baseball, and Kobe is one of my favorite players in the NBA, and the Lakers are one of my favorite teams.

 

Kobe and Phil Jackson never fought. Kobe was pissed at GM Kupchack because he refused to give away young talent (Bynum) for win now talent (Kidd). Kobe thought the team was never going to get better, and wanted out of the situation. He was promised when he re-signed there a few years ago that the Lakers would build a championship-caliber team around him, and he thought that never happened.

 

Phil Jackson stuck by Kobe the whole time, and stood up for him in press conferences.

 

Kobe doesn't want out of his situation at all. Have you even watched the Lakers this season? They're a top 4 team in the Western Conference, and are only going to get better in the long haul with the young core they have. Kobe said a week back it was his mistake to do that over the summer, and that he loves L.A. and is more than happy right now as a Laker.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yea - I agree with bb4l on the 'Cappy + TGJ for Rolen' deal. If your proposed package would net Rolen, DM would be a fool to pass it up. I'd do that for his whole contract, fwiw - it'd be that good of a deal imho.

[Big Reed]

I currently live in the heart of cardinals country. I would beg to differ that Pujols is the face of the cards' franchise. he may be the superstar and his stats may be a lot better, but the fans like Rolen a lot more. Rolen is the face of the Cardinals. if you look on the back of a fan's jersey, the liklihood is that the name is Rolen. Who is the face of the Brewers? I would say Prince.

 

obviously many people misuderstood my kobe/Rolen comparison. I'm not trying to compare talent. i' m just saying the trade availability for both players was initiated by the players, not the team owner or GM. Neither team really wants to trade either player. it's the player who wanted out. it's also the player who was dictating to the team where he wanted to be traded to. Did the lakers ever want to trade kobe? No! Could the lakers ever trade kobe to a team like the bucks? No, because kobe would veto it. Did the Cards really want to trade rolen? no. Could the Cards have traded rolen to tampa Bay for young or Upton? No, because Rolen would have vetoed that trade. Kobe and rolen are the ones demanding trades, but they want them made on their terms and it just ain't going to happen for either player. Their GMs looked around, asked for the moon, and Neil Armstrong wasn't interested. And both now realize they are both very unlikely to be traded. Kobe is going nowhere. I highly doubt Rolen is going anywhere either.

 

I keep listening to melvin talk about making a Spring training deal. But, I've never seen him make a significant trade in spring training since he arrived.. He'll pick up a couple of bench players and trade a player that is not going to start for the team. but the vast majority of his major deals are made in November, December and early January. melvin's track record of making major deals right before the season starts is almost nil. In the past he kept saying he couldn't trade a player because of their injuries / questionmarks that year and he wanted to showcase their health in Spring training games. Well, he showcased them and decided to keep them rather than trade them.

 

The longer rolen remains a cardinal, the more I believe he'll remain a Cardinal. if he is not traded by the end of this month, i doubt seriously he will be traded at all. Rolen will definitely not be traded once Spring training starts if he is still wearing a Cardinal uniform. he may hate larussa, but he loves the city and fans too much to keep demanding a trade. Melvin had his chance, but was unwilling to meet the cards' asking price. I have to believe the Cards were asking for a lot more in return for rolen than most brewer fans and melvin included would think is fair value.

[Oldcity]

Whether Pujols is the "face of the franchise" is irrelevant. He IS the franchise, and that's really the point.

[yoshii8]

I've been to St. Louis too, and they are mostly smart fans, and I've seen a lot more Pujols jerseys than Rolen jerseys. Even if Rolen is a fan favorite, I'm pretty sure that they know that Pujols is the franchise, no contest.

[bando1234]

Who is the face of the Brewers?

 

Craig Counsell

[mrwisconsin]

How about Cappy and Hall for Rolen. I like that more than getting Camron.

[endaround]

Hall is so overpaying for Rolen its not funny. Rolen has a huge contract and is coming off of serious injury. Hall has a very team friendly contract and is 28.

[brewmann04]

Cappy and Hall are way to much for Rolen

[twobrewers]

How about Cappy and Hall for Rolen.

Yes, that is way overpaying. However, if Cameron is signed - I could very well see Cappy and Hall being shipped out in the same package. But it would have to be for a much better player. (Beltre)

 

God, I really don't want to see Hall get traded.

[flosses like fossas]

agreed. the rolen option suddenly looks much, much better with cameron and now even green, wilkerson, and feliz having been mentioned. really, i want lofton. i have since before the indians dealt for him last season.

 

it's either crafty or sad of the brewers to be talking only about "serviceable" (i use this term loosely) veterans. maybe there's something more interesting in the works behind the scenes...doug?

[strawbossisevil]

Rolen vs. Hall

 

 

 

Defense - Advantage Rolen

 

Offense - Advantage Rolen (he gets on base so much better while having similar power)

 

 

 

Injury Risk - Advantage Hall

 

Age - Advantage Hall

 

 

 

All in all, Rolen actually would be the better player to have on your team 1) if he stays healthy and 2) he doesn't drop off significantly because of his age.

[twobrewers]

All in all, Rolen actually would be the better player to have on your team 1) if he stays healthy and 2) he doesn't drop off significantly because of his age.

You forgot contract status. Big advantage Hall.

[MNBrew]

You forgot contract status. Big advantage Hall.

Hall averages $6M/yr. on his contract but his numbers get bigger than that in the latter years -- typical backloading. Capuano's sure to be a $3-4M pitcher this year and won't lose much from that unless he has completely lost it.

Rolen makes $12M/yr. So the net increase on this deal is really no worse than $3M additional per year on average.

That's really no huge advantage to Hall in the first place, let alone considering how much better an offensive and defensive player Rolen is assuming he's healthy.

[SmartBall]

Considering Hall has had a monster year and a down year, and Rolen has had some great years but is definitely trending down, I wouldn't trade Rolen for Hall straight up much less add Cappy to that trade.

[berniebrewer4life]

How about Cappy and Hall for Rolen.

Yes, that is way overpaying. However, if Cameron is signed - I could very well see Cappy and Hall being shipped out in the same package. But it would have to be for a much better player. (Beltre)

 

God, I really don't want to see Hall get traded.

I don't really view Adrian Beltre as a much better player than hall. Unless i am mistaken, they put up pretty similar numbers.

[Gopher74]

How about Cappy and Hall for Rolen.

Yes, that is way overpaying. However, if Cameron is signed - I could very well see Cappy and Hall being shipped out in the same package. But it would have to be for a much better player. (Beltre)

 

God, I really don't want to see Hall get traded.

I don't really view Adrian Beltre as a much better player than hall. Unless i am mistaken, they put up pretty similar numbers.

Well, Beltre is a GG caliber 3rd basemen, and if you consider Hall's 06 season to be the type of player he is, then sure, they put up similar numbers. But Beltre plays in a pitchers park in Petco and his splits point to that pretty drastically as he's a .850 OPS guy on the road, and a .752 at home.

 

I think he's a significantly better player than Hall, and even with the salary, I'd be happy if we could make that trade.

[Ennder]

I'd say the safest assumption is that Hall's 2005 is his talent level since it is between the good year and the bad year, though I don't expect the AVG to be that high again his BB's are higher so the OBP stays about the same.

 

 

 

.291/.343/.495/.838 with 5.83 RC/G

 

 

 

Beltre has seen a slow upward progression in his stats so I'll use last season as his base.

 

 

 

.276/.319/.482/.801 with 5.21 RC/G

 

 

 

I'd say they are pretty even. Yeah Beltre is in a pitchers park but at the same time that low OBP is on the road and at home. We would be losing even more OBP to gain a little slugging. Beltre is probably a better fielder but Hall is more versatile and Beltre is only good not great at 3B, he is not in the same league as guys like Zimmerman, Wright and Feliz.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't really view Adrian Beltre as a much better player than hall. Unless i am mistaken, they put up pretty similar numbers.

Gopher & Ennder said all that needs to be said about Beltre, but wasn't the quote to which you were referring talking about Rolen - not Hall - when "much better" was used, bb4l?

[jjfanec]

Looks like Rolen might be headed to Toronto for Troy Glaus according to Fox and Rosenthal.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7665630

 

What would this have been comparable to for us to give up?

[endaround]

Unless St. Louis is picking up a boatload of money, this makes little sense for Toronto. Yeah Rolen likely will hit better if healthy, but Glaus has a much lower risk of missing huge amounts of time over the next two years.

 

 

 

Really nothing comparable for the Brewers.

[jjfanec]

I cant believe St. Louis did not get any pitching back for Rolen. I agree they got good value for him but I figured they would get pitching

[fondybrewfan]

I dont really get the point of that trade? Really whats the point?

[lukevan]

Yeah I don't understand swapping fairly similar 3B's, although Glaus doesn't have the problems with LaRussa that Rolen has. Still, I'd think they'd rather pick up some pitching in a deal for Rolen.