Rolen Trade, Latest: Glaus/Rolen swap (reply #795)

[trwi7]

Cardinals just traded Edmonds for a 3B prospect... I'm just saying...

 

Creates a hole for them in CF and they may not want Rasmus yet. We have a CF that won't get any playing time this year hmm makes you think....

[sbrylski]

....Gwynn+Capuano for Rolen+$10M

 

HOT!

[Big Reed]

sam , what is your definition of HOT? Does that mean, we should get this deal done? Does that mean discussions are ongoing once more? Do you know something, but can't legally tell us? is this about to go down before i wake up tommorow? I realize the brewers saved $7 million today when Vizcaino signed with the Rockies. and a brewer fan made Tom h mad because he didn't know anything about the signing that never happened. by hot, do you mean this thread is about to go to the major league forum as a done deal? Does this mean we should forget about ensberg and his OBP?

 

I'm starting to salivate with desire and hope. then again, one of my fantasy keeper teams has crede, Rolen, Gordon, and Cabrera on it, while the other one has Glaus, garciapara, braun, Cabrera, and gordon on it. Suffice it to say, i like third basemen.

[sbrylski]

sam , what is your definition of HOT? Does that mean, we should get this deal done? Does that mean discussions are ongoing once more? Do you know something, but can't legally tell us? is this about to go down before i wake up tommorow? I realize the brewers saved $7 million today when Vizcaino signed with the Rockies. and a brewer fan made Tom h mad because he didn't know anything about the signing that never happened. by hot, do you mean this thread is about to go to the major league forum as a done deal? Does this mean we should forget about ensberg and his OBP?

 

Hot = excited about the thought. No source, except for my own noggin. I wish though.

[bretsky07]

Gwynn could work perfectly for them. After the Edmonds trade, would Gwynn be their starting CF?

[yoshii8]

Get it done Dougie, I'm sick of wondering who our 3rd baseman will be. Gwynn, Vargas and Escobar, or Gwynn and Capuano. They probably would like Escobar, because Cesar Izturis is there starter right now. I'm hoping they pick up at least 10-15 million on the contract.

[MNBrew]

Gwynn + Escobar + Capuano = Rolen + cash?

 

OR

 

Gamel + Vargas + Turnbow = Rolen (Brewers pay most or full salary, Cards pay deferred dough)

 

It's one thing to believe the Cardinals are kinda over a barrel with Rolen. But they also know he's of value and they're not going to give him away for scraps AND pay his whole contract.

 

I think DM could get away with including Vargas instead of Capuano by also including the live arm of Turnbow or maybe Mota.

[Big Reed]

I don't care how much salary we have to pick up. just get it done! Stop trying to lowball the cards. offer them a decent deal, and get it done.

[recte44]

I don't want to trade Gwynn. I think he still has great value as a backup, especially in my plan to sign Cameron and trade Hall in part of a package for Bedard.

 

Capuano or Vargas + a spec (i don't think we need to give up as much as Escobar, maybe Irribaren or even Nelson) for Rolen + some cash. I'll take less cash if we don't have to give up Gwynn or Escobar.

[BW23]

The Cards seem to be moving in a different direction than they were a couple of weeks ago when they wanted Capuano. Moving Edmonds for what is really a non-prospect signals a possible rebuilding year. Capuano doesn't help with that....unless they think they'll correct what's wrong and then move him in July.

[Invader3K]

Hell, I'd do: Gwynn/Vargas/Escobar/Mota for Rolen.

[BritInWI]

I don't care how much salary we have to pick up. just get it done! Stop trying to lowball the cards. offer them a decent deal, and get it done.

What's "lowball" for a player who will be 33 at the start of next season, is coming off a miserable season, has a hate-hate relationship with his manager, desperately wants out and is hugely overpaid? Also, can I ask just what it is that you know about how much Doug Melvin really offered for Rolen? I'm curious...

Should the Brewers give the Cards Ryan Braun and just be done with it?

 

I'm sorry but the Brewers are in a stronger position than the Cards here. Rolen has to go. They can't (realistically) keep him now. Too many burned bridges. The Brewers, on the other hand, would like to have Rolen but he's not a critical acquisition and Mark A hasn't handed Doug Melvin a blank checkbook. I expect that for a big name, like Tejada, certain allowances could be made - but Rolen isn't that big a name. I'd like Rolen on the Brewers but if the Cards trade him to someone else - I wouldn't care that much. Certainly not enough to give them a great package and eat that salary too, leaving yourself with tough decisions when more important players ask for more money...

[MillerParkSouth]

I don't think moving Edmonds means they're rebuilding. He was kind of dead weight last year and unless i'm mistaken, i think their bigtime prospect is a CF and almost ready for the show. I still think Capuano could get this done.

[MNBrew]

The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of trading Gwynn at all without getting OF depth back in return. He's one of only 5 OFs on the 40-man roster (6 if you include Dillon, and that still includes Drew Anderson) and there's not really any ML-ready depth coming up just yet. I'm not crazy about Recte's idea of going for Cameron -- I'd take Lofton instead for his LH bat, better eye/fewer K's, & better OBP -- but Hall as part of a package with Vargas or Capuano or Bush (1 of the 2 who doesn't go to StL for Rolen) as part of a Bedard deal seems fantastic to me.

 

Cameron has 4 seasons with a >.350 OBP, by the way, and none over .370. Lofton has 12 seasons with a >.350 OBP including 7 seasons >.370. Cameron has 1500 Ks in 5400 career ABs, whereas Lofton has just over 1000 Ks in over 8100 career ABs. Both those things point me big-time toward Lofton in spite of his age.

 

Last year a buddy of mine watched Escobar lots of times in the Fall League and all he could talk about was what a terrible & weak slap hitter he was. Has he improved much since then, any of you who've seen him? Gamel & Braun are comparable in yrs. of pro experience but Gamel's an even more atrocious fielder. Plus they have Taylor Green coming up, too. That makes Gamel a nice tradeable asset in my book.

 

Gamel + Vargas + Mota/Turnbow for Rolen makes a lot of sense. That's about $6M in salary sent out it that deal, meaning Rolen only would cost the Brewers $6M in '08 before any offsetting cash from StL were factored in. That wouldn't weaken all prospect depth in the IF, and the Crew still has plenty of pitching depth.

 

Even without the Bedard idea that Recte likes, trading either Turnbow or Mota opens room in the 'pen for BOTH guys who don't make the #5 rotation spot between Bush, Capuano, & Parra. In other words, we still keep 7 starters on the roster, with 2 pitching as long men out of the 'pen until needed in the rotation assuming the Crew keeps 12 pitchers (which still seems silly but has proven necessary enough that I can buy into that).

[gregmag]

The dynamic here seems to have changed with the Edmonds trade. Good news: the Cards have no earthly reason to hold onto Rolen. Bad news: I don't see why they would want some of the players we've been discussing -- Vargas, Mota, Turnbow, to draw on MNBrew's last post. If they're rebuilding for real, they're going to want prospects. Maybe they'd still take Cappy or Bush as a centerpiece, on the theory that they still have to play some games and those guys are relatively young and (in Bush's case) cheap. But the bidding now will have to involve prospects. I'm not saying Rolen is worth a lot, but somebody else may think he is.

 

Maybe that's a good thing, to the extent we're in win now mode. But I don't love the idea of trading Gamel right now, when he's just had a semi-breakout year. Gwynn I'd sell for parts, and I'm not convinced Escobar has championship-caliber potential. Anyway, I think those may be the kinds of arguments we'll have to have in thinking about a Rolen deal now.

 

Greg.

[recte44]

We continually forget about Zach Jackson. Maybe they'd be interested in the young lefty.

[trwi7]

We continually forget about Zach Jackson. Maybe they'd be interested in the young lefty.

 

That's because he's been pretty forgettable.

[twobrewers]

That makes Gamel a nice tradeable asset in my book.

Braun is about to be shifted to the outfield. That would leave a hole for the Brewers at 3B. (Even if Rolen is aquired - he only has 3 years left) That would give Gamel or Taylor 3 years to become a MLB caliber 3B.

 

Trading Gamel at this point is a waste of talent. Unless the Brewers think he will continue to struggle as he moves up through the system (as they apparently did with Inman) - you keep him until he is playing at a high level in AAA. If he is still blocked - then you trade him when his value is highest. (MLB teams want MLB ready players - why trade Gamel before he is MLB ready?)

 

Quality AAA player >>> Quality A+ player

 

As for Zach Jackson - he is has very minimal value. The only team I could see remotely interested would be a team like the Nationals. (or Houston, he might be their second best pitcher!) If you are going to trot out a poor rotation, you might as well trot out a few young guys and see if any can stick. Zach could eat a few innings in MLB, but I doubt he would ever be better than a #5 starter.

[Oldcity]

Trading Gamel at this point is a waste of talent. Unless the Brewers think he will continue to struggle as he moves up through the system (as they apparently did with Inman) - you keep him until he is playing at a high level in AAA. If he is still blocked - then you trade him when his value is highest. (MLB teams want MLB ready players - why trade Gamel before he is MLB ready?)

Because it would likely help the big league team? Prospects are traded all the time before they reach AAA, so I'm not sure where you were going with that one.

Quality AAA player >>> Quality A+ player

Problem with your equation is that the Brewers really don't have a quality AAA player at the moment, at least one as highly regarded as Gamel. I really think Parra, Gamel and Gwynn could bring back a really good player to put the Brewers over the top in the division.

 

[sundayspecial]

From the Adam McCalvy article on Gabe Kapler:

The possibility of acquiring Cardinals third baseman Scott Rolen, a hot topic during the Winter Meetings, "is probably a dead issue," Melvin said.

My dad works at the post office in New Berlin and Harvey Kuenn Jr., a scout for the club, comes in on occasion. Yesterday he was in and said that the Cardinals are asking for Chris Capuano and Corey Hart. I can see why Melvin says this is a dead issue. There is no way that I give up Corey Hart for Rolen straight up even. The GM in St. Louis needs to realize that this is real and not MLB 08 on XBOX 360.

[Brian the Automator]

My dad works at the post office in New Berlin and Harvey Kuenn Jr., a scout for the club, comes in on occasion. Yesterday he was in and said that the Cardinals are asking for Chris Capuano and Corey Hart. I can see why Melvin says this is a dead issue. There is no way that I give up Corey Hart for Rolen straight up even. The GM in St. Louis needs to realize that this is real and not MLB 08 on XBOX 360.

That's actually good news. If the new GM in StL is that insane, it means he will overvalue his players to the point where it will be very difficult for them to make their team better through trades.

 

Welcome aboard, by the way.

[patrickgpe]

if that is true, that is crazy. I think Cappy and a pitching prospect is one thing, but you can't give up your young starting rf to deal with the jenkins / braun problem, Since nobody else seems to be moving in to get him, let him and tony fight all season and watch the cards implode.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Yesterday he was in and said that the Cardinals are asking for Chris Capuano and Corey Hart.

 

I hope Melvin countered by offering Vargas and Counsel for Pujols

[princeginterhallhelms04]

Really? He thinks Rolen is worth Hart and Cappy? Back in the day maybe but what the cardinals GM has to understand is that he is an injury risk a high salary player and just an overall big risk why would the brewer's ship off a player who is cheap and under there control for a while. Plus would that not just open up another hole on the team!

[splitterpfj]

I love Corey Hart, if the Brewers traded him at all right now, it'd really tick me off. If they did it to get Rolen, I'd need medication.