Rolen Trade, Latest: Glaus/Rolen swap (reply #795)

[dadofandrew]

Anyone else think the title of the thread should be changed to include the word "trade"?

[saget]

That is hilarious. He was a young man.

[B2k1121]

It sucks watching other contending teams making moves, taking chances, and we just sit and be conservative. "It just didn't feel right" he says. This is the Brewers, chances to contend don't come along much, take a chance.

[TooLiveBrew]

Anyone else think the title of the thread should be changed to include the word "trade"?

 

Given the evolution of this thread, I vote it should stay. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[PeaveyFury]

This is the Brewers, chances to contend don't come along much, take a chance.

 

So, you're cool "taking that chance" if the Cardinals were asking for Villy or Parra along with Capuano? Tom H reported they were asking for a 'top young player' or something like that.

 

Without knowing what they wanted, it's impossible to know what the deal would have entailed.

[brewmann04]

i am glad we didn"t pull this trade Off Rolen has to many injury concerns.

Now what about Brandon Inge from Det

[MJLiverock]

No thanks for me on Inge. He is a strike out machine with a .304 OBP. That is worse than Estrada

[colbyjack]

Remember that Phil Nevin for Jeromy Burnitz swap that involved a few other players changing teams back in the day? I remember staying up to the wee hours in the morning to see if Burnitz had agreed to a contract extension with the Padres, only to miss out on a lot of sleep and didn't find out a dang thing, of course that the trade would not happen, until the next day. I, among countless others, were so incredibly excited about the idea of acquiring Phil Nevin, filling the team's 3B hole and finding a dangerous RH hitter that could hit for average and power, and I also remember a few people holding out hope that the deal could still happen.

 

I was pretty stoked about the idea of Rolen coming to Milwaukee. As soon as I found out that the Cardinals were looking to trade him given his situation with LaRussa I thought he was a perfect match for the Brewers. Yes, he has some warts, but I have never ever seen a player on any message board where everyone is in complete agreement about what he's worth, if he's worth the trouble of acquiring, etc.

 

Anyway, I'm going to predict that something happens tomorrow. Maybe they officially sign Riske, maybe something bigger and different from everything else we've heard so far. Most deals that have actually happened in the history of the Brewers we have not heard about until they actually do happen, as there is definitely some truth to Tom H's blog this evening about how 99.9% of all of the rumors out there are just that, no matter how credible the source may seem.

 

Food for thought: If Rolen is out, with reports that Melvin intends to pass on Crede and Feliz, that leaves LaRoche and Blalock as two third base targets specifically mentioned by Tom H that Melvin has investigated/considered for the third base job.

[burnzy24]

If in fact they were asking for a top prospect then I'm glad Doug showed restraint. For some reason I just have this feeling that none of the other teams are going to meet St. Louis' demands and/or Rolen's no trade clause is going to lead to the Cardinals to come back to the Brewers. I think the no trade clause is the biggest issue. I know if I were him and I didn't particularly like my manager, I would try my hardest to join a team where I could play against him the most. It seems to happen more in the NFL, where players sign with another team in the same division just because they get to square off against their old team twice a year because they felt they were treated poorly.(Lavarr Arrington, Jamal Lewis etc) Rolen may not be that type of person, however.

[twobrewers]

So, hypothetically speaking - Rolen can almost force his way onto the Brewers. He can just threaten to veto any trade, unless it is to the Brewers. The Cardinals only other option would be keep him as a malcontent in the clubhouse arguing with La Russa.

 

I would think, between the two options - St. Louis would prefer to send him to Milwaukee.

 

The problem is, the Brewers need to let Rolen know that they are still interested and would like for him to be a Brewer. Translated: Tell Rolen to push the issue and threaten to veto a trade to another team. Of course, the Brewers can't actually contact Rolen and tell him anything like that - that would be tampering.

 

I think the only way you can do something like that would be to make a comment through the press. They might be trying to tell Rolen something with comments like this...

"Things can get revived but at this point we didn't have much momentum. We just wanted to make that clear. We think he's a very good player. We think he could help us. (But) we're going to look at other things."

 

[Big Reed]

terrace : I will stand by my statement. and unfortunately there is no statistical basis to prove it right or wrong.

 

There are some players who are winners no matter what their stats are. And they make their team winners. One of those guys was Kirby Puckett. it didn't matter what kirby's stats were, he was a winner, and those on his team did their best to win, not for the twins fans or their owner, but for Kirby. it's amazing to look at some of the twins players' stats when they played for the twins, and then look at how bad they were once they left and/or once kirby left. They played their hearts out with Kirby on the team. . The yankees wanted Clemens because he's a proven winner. The padres wanted Maddux because his teams win games. Maddux is no longer a Cy Young caliber pitcher. but he's still in demand because he's a winner.

 

there are other players who may have great stats but are very selfish and their selfishness starts to rub off on their team and their team ends up being a losing team, or a team whose stats never equal to success. Frank Thomas, Sheffield and Bonds all come to mind. one would think with all the great players that have been on Bonds' teams, that they would have produced at least one championship. The Giants were not a one man show with just Bonds on it. They had Moises Alou, jeff kent, Will Clark, Matt Williams, jason Schmidt and many others all in their prime along side bonds, and still couldn't win the big one, and only got close once. The White Sox won a championship with Frank Thomas injured for the majority of that year. Sheffield did win a championship for the marlins only to move on to richer $$ pastures. If Sheffield was a team player, the Yankees would not have traded him.

 

Suppan didn't do a whole lot statistically this year, but the overall record of the brewers improved over last year. I think Suppan's presence helped.

 

In basketball it is said there are some players who make the players around them better despite the fact their stats might not be the best. Steve nash and jason kidd are said to be players who make others around them better. on the other hand there are guys who have great stats, but for some reason their teams are always losers. Elvin hayes , Kobe and redd come to mind. it wasn't until Jordan became a team player that the Bulls won a championship.

 

The thing about winners is that they do many things to help their team and teammates outside of the actual game performance that never shows up in any stats or box score. Having a guy like maddux is like having two pitching coaches because he takes time to work with other pitchers on his team. Kirby would help other batters on their stroke and their attitude. Jordan would practice 20/7.

 

That's why I want Rolen. he comes from a winning tradition with the Cardinals. he's been part of several world series teams. he knows how to win. And I think his winning attitude would rub off on the younger brewers. Even if injured, and not at 100%, Rolen's attitude alone would make the brewers better.

 

I believe in Santa Claus too. The proof is not in any stat, but rather the proof is in my son's eyes.

[TooLiveBrew]

he's been part of several world series teams. he knows how to win. And I think his winning attitude would rub off on the younger brewers.

 

He's been on two WS teams. His team lost once, and won once. Does that make him a wlonser?

[colbyjack]

Interesting observation twobrewers. I don't want to set myself only to be disappointed given my Nevin story from above, but that does make perfect sense, and it may be Melvin calling the Cardinals bluff as I suggested yesterday.

 

Actually, if Suppan and Rolen are good friends, there's no rules preventing Suppan from dropping Rolen a line and suggesting such an idea (at least not that I'm aware of). You know a pitcher like Jeff would love to have Rolen's glove at third.

[brewmann04]

doug does not need to make a trade at all .He needs to stay the course with our Young Players.the one rumour rolen trade involiving

Cappy ,hall and a prospect is absoulty nuts. However i am taken Back we really have not heard alot of teams asking about Cappy,Bush or Vargas. What happened to the some teams that was supposly intrested in Mench.

[Brian the Automator]

That's why I want Rolen. he comes from a winning tradition with the Cardinals. he's been part of several world series teams. he knows how to win. And I think his winning attitude would rub off on the younger brewers. Even if injured, and not at 100%, Rolen's attitude alone would make the brewers better.

What Rolen's attitude has shown is that he doesn't get along with his managers.

[sbrylski]

There are some players who are winners no matter what their stats are.

 

So both Kirby Puckett and Kent Hrbeck each hit 3 RBI and steal a bag in a game. Kirby Puckett's contributed more to the win because he's a winner?

 

The thing about winners is that they do many things to help their team and teammates outside of the actual game performance that never shows up in any stats or box score. Having a guy like maddux is like having two pitching coaches because he takes time to work with other pitchers on his team.

 

I'll agree to an extent. This additional instruction would help a pitcher preform better. But better preformance shows up in stats.

 

Now, you can say the overall worth of a player is greater than his stats because he makes others better around him. (I'd argue the effect wouldn't be that great.) However, I don't think you can assume a player is going to mentor others just because he was on some winning teams or made a world series. Is Barry Bonds a mentor? Gary Sheffield? Are these guys winners?

 

I'm not saying Rolen wouldn't be a positive influence on the team, but I think you have to know a lot more about his personality. And as Brian said, he doesn't exactly have the clubhouse leader label.

[chadomac]

I too am surprised that there isn't more interest in Vargas or Bush. I didn't think they'd land the talent that Capuano will, but they should have some value and I would think we could get some decent relievers for them... wouldn't you think?

[trwi7]

Big Reed wrote:

Maddux is no longer a Cy Young caliber pitcher. but he's still in demand because he's a winner.

Like he lead the Cubs to the NL Central lead in the first half of last season before he was traded. Oh wait.

[PeaveyFury]

McCalvy mentions speculation that the Cards wanted Capuano and Hall, along with ANOTHER prospect.

 

If there's any truth to it, I'm glad Melvin walked away, and hope he did it at a near sprint.

[hauser42]

McCalvy mentions speculation that the Cards wanted Capuano and Hall, along with ANOTHER prospect.

 

If there's any truth to it, I'm glad Melvin walked away, and hope he did it at a near sprint.

I agree with Doug walking away from this offer.

 

Meetings just started and if nothing gets done that is fine. A lot of groundwork will be laid with many teams on players of interest at the meetings so other things will happen after this week.

[logan82]

There are some players who are winners no matter what their stats are.

Like anybody who decides to pitch fo rthe Yankees. See Johnson, Randy circa 2006.

[Big Reed]

TRWI7: Maddux was not a member of the Cubs last year. he was not pitching for them in the first half of last year or the second half. maddux did lead the padres to a very successful season last year until they fell apart against the brewers in the final weekend of the season. if the padres had only pitched Peavey in that last game against the brewers. if only. You can't blame Maddux for that judgement call.

[mrwisconsin]

I wanted Mr Rolen here so bad and i bet sad, but i am glad Mr Melvin didn't do it.

[Big Reed]

It could still happen. my wife hasn't started singing yet.

 

it ain't over until Yogi says its over.

 

melvin is not really known for his honesty to the press or brewer fans.

[southpaw121505]

They are nuts if they wanted Capuano, Hall, and a prospect. Good luck getting that value from someone else, and thank god we didn't bite. I wanted Rolen, but certainly not at that price.