Rolen Trade, Latest: Glaus/Rolen swap (reply #795)

[Brian the Automator]

Rolen actually hits righties better than lefties. I don't see the problem there.

[brains and braun]

I agree. Frankly, I 'm not sure why everyone wants to give up on this. We still have a few days of meetings left. Rolen will almost certainly be gone by then. I think that we are still the most attractive option for him and offer pitching that STL covets. Let's wait and see.

[fondybrewfan]

Yeah but how often is ESPN actually right?

[Brian the Automator]

Rolen for Capuano and a top prospect plus the Brewers pay all of Rolen's salary? No thanks.

 

Agreed. I wouldn't throw in that top prospect based on Rolen's injury concerns and his salary.

I agree. I wouldn't do the deal unless StL chipped in 25-50% of the fundage.

 

[RedbirdRay]

If he goes anywhere, I'd rather it be to you guys. I watch a substantial amt of Brewer games and still love watching him play.

 

It seems more and more that Rolen and Reyes moving are givens. Edmonds might also be moved.

 

I feel moving Edmonds is a mistake. He is owed about 9 million for next year and it will probably be his last year. He should retire a Cardinal. I'm usually much more "baseball is business" oriented, but the general consensus is the Cards will royally suck next year and are playing for2009. Edmonds is a big fan draw, has a chance at the Hall and will probably enter in Red, and is reportedly healthier than he has been in years. Additionally, the going rate for CFs this year makes a one year 9million contract seem fair. Our top prospect is Colby Rasmus, Edmonds heir-apparent. I'd like to see them both on the club for awhile also for mentoring purposes.

 

Albert was all we had to watch last year. I'd like to relive some Jimmy Ballgame moments one last time. Losing him and Rolen in the same off-season will kill the passive fan interest.

[splitterpfj]

We still have a few days of meetings left.

 

Yes, and then we have three more months before the first spring training game.

[JJHardy7]

Something doesn't seem right here. I really don't think it's based on trading within the division. My guess it has more to do with what prospect is involved in this deal. Just my guess, but you'd think the Cardinals would've thought about this right away -- unless they are now unable to get the prospect they want and then thought about it some more.

[B2k1121]

Is it considered tampering if Melvin calls up Rolen and says just tell them you will only play for the Brewers?

 

What if I call him?

[twobrewers]

I wonder how often stories like this just get planted by one of the involved parties.

 

St. Louis is trying to drive up Rolen's price and get more teams interested.

 

So the Cardinal GM takes aside one of his employees and says "Hey, go tell that ESPN reporter over there that talks have cooled to a standstill - and we are looking to ship him out of the division."

[Fear The Chorizo]

For this situation, my guess is that the Cardinals are waiting for Cabrera (the marquee 3b on the trade market, even though defensively=bad) gets dealt, so they can see if the losers of dealing for Cabrera want to acquire Rolen...even if Rolen only wants to play in Milwaukee, if STL gets multiple offers from teams, the Cards may try to pry a better combination of players from any team they trade with, or at least pay less of his contract. They don't HAVE to trade him, after all. Teams like Detroit and the Angels could put some intriguing offers together if they want to trade for Rolen.

 

Regardless, trades don't have to all be made this week - and many potential deals hinge on a free agent signing or a marquee player at a similiar position getting dealt before happening. Patience.

[Invader3K]

What if I call him?

Do it! DO IT!!!

[I Heart Brewers]

I wonder how often stories like this just get planted by one of the involved parties.

 

St. Louis is trying to drive up Rolen's price and get more teams interested.

 

So the Cardinal GM takes aside one of his employees and says "Hey, go tell that ESPN reporter over there that talks have cooled to a standstill - and we are looking to ship him out of the division."

If they don't they should. I think it's an interesting strategy. Playing a bit dirty, but hey, it's a business.

[Milltownhooker]

For this situation, my guess is that the Cardinals are waiting for Cabrera (the marquee 3b on the trade market, even though defensively=bad) gets dealt, so they can see if the losers of dealing for Cabrera want to acquire Rolen...even if Rolen only wants to play in Milwaukee, if STL gets multiple offers from teams, the Cards may try to pry a better combination of players from any team they trade with, or at least pay less of his contract. They don't HAVE to trade him, after all. Teams like Detroit and the Angels could put some intriguing offers together if they want to trade for Rolen.

With Cabrera its more about his elite bat than the position he plays. I doubt too many contenders will see Rolen as a fall back option.

[TooLiveBrew]

An odd twist in the plot! Stellar! If Hall is the dealbreaker, no thanks. Or, as mentioned, the Cards not paying enough of the salary, or demanding a top prospect - no thanks to both. If Rolen 'will' be gone from StL., and he's got a no-trade clause, and wants to stay in the midwest, etc., etc., I don't see how this deal is dead yet.

[aracko]

This is bogus. If a deal was indeed close this is the Cards attempting to scare teh Brewers into raising their offer. Like someone said earlier - this whole time the deal was being discussed The Cards and The Crew have played in the same division. That has never changed. Why suddenly the Cards cant do it makes no sense. Dont play the game Doug.

 

Set your sights on Hank Blalock. His defense is severly underrated, the Rangers need pitching and he fills the need for a left handed bat.

[trwi7]

Set your sights on Hank Blalock. His defense is severly underrated, the Rangers need pitching and he fills the need for a left handed bat.

 

I don't like Blalock at all. He was injured this year (so was Rolen) but he's coming off two mediocre years with the stick and would need to be platooned.

[Big Reed]

two people asked me a question - brian and Ribidoux. here is my answer. is it Rolen related? yes and no. I don't feel either poster was trying to bait me. but to answer their questions, I have to go a tad off topic.

 

brian - facts and stats can be taken out of context, misinterpreted, and/or over prioritized. I will agree stats are important. I will argue that overall team success in baseball is not as directly related to certain individual stats as some people would believe. In some instances in baseball history, success was inversely proportional to its correlated stats. We call these exceptions to the rule. If I could prove that the majority of the last 10 world series winners were exceptions to the rule, then wouldn't it also be logical to throw out the rule and the stats that established it and their importance as it relates to overall team success? I firmly believe we place too much importance on certain individual stats and not enough on others.

 

Robideaux- I'm not sure what is the best guage to judge a player by. The Packers' Sherman based his drafts almost solely on Speed and combine results verses actual game reults.. he loved speed. he drafted really fast, but stupid mistake prone players. As a result, his teams lost and a lot of the "speed' players he drafted are no longer in the NFL. Tony Dungy and the Colts place more emphasis on actual college game performance. The Bucks drafted and acquired a lot of players based on their sheer physical attributes rather than their actual basketball skills. Haislip and Tim Thomas looked like great players physically. but they were terrible basketball players. Gaylord Perry and Phil Neikro were grossly over weight. But they sure could pitch and their careers lasted twice as long as that skinny underwear guy Jim Palmer. . The stat I like the most is the W. Reggie Jackson's overall stats are not as impressive as his winning attitude. Kirk Gibson's stats are not as impressive as his dogged determination . I like guys like Rolen and Andrew Jones not because of their stats, but because they were the centerpiece of winning organizations. I would like Chipper Jones, Jeter and Bernie Williams for the same reason. I think the real reason for the Yankees' success was Bernie Williams. I like players who have tasted victory / success. That's why I'm high on White Sox, marlins, Red Sox, and yankees players. They know how to win.

 

That's why I want Rolen. Forget his stats. forget his injuries. Forget his fielding ability. forget his age. forget his salary. i like him because he knows how to win.

 

I will take my 2008 stats philosophy to the stats board rather than talking about it further in this thread. the basis of my 2008 philosophy is based on the success of the Atlanta Braves and cardinals . Their success over the past 10 years has far exceeded what their generated stats would have predicted. the same could be said about the Packers' success this year.

 

they say the wiser you are, the more you realize how little you actually know.

[crewcrazy]

I'm interested in who the "top prospect" would be, because ESPN doesn't seem to have an idea of who's a top prospect and who's not. If it's Tony Gwynn Jr., no problem. If it's Mat Gamel, I think I'll pass.

[TooLiveBrew]

I never got the whole "we're trading in the same division, so we can't do it" thing.

It's the 'burn' factor, imo. Don't wanna see a guy you think will hurt you (perhaps out of spite) as a divisional opponent. Not saying this is my opinion, just attempting to clarify.

 

As for the 'this division hesitation came from LF' notion, it was mentioned pretty much from jump as a slight sticking point for the Cards, iirc.

[aracko]

Blalock had a .358 OBP Last season. Last year he hit Lefties at a .298 clip with a .370 OBP. I wouldnt platoon him. .309 hitter with RISP. .371 OBP with 2 outs.

 

I agree he was injured but he is about to hit magic # 27.

[colbyjack]

Call the Cards bluff. They have to move Rolen, as there have been more and more reports that he and LaRussa just don't get along. If he does indeed want to stay in the Midwest, and is friends with Suppan, he can obviously play a big part in where he goes given his no-trade clause.

 

If Melvin was indeed waiting for this deal to happen to clear a roster spot for Riske, I would counter by making the roster spot without any other move to try and make a statement of my own, meaning, he's making a statement that he's prepared to move forward with or without Rolen.

 

I still hope it happens, but there are other options out there.

[Big Reed]

The brewers and cardinals have made trades with each other before. the cards have made trades with the reds, pirates, stros and cubs before as well in the past 5 years.

 

if anything, the cards have made more intradivision trades, than interdivision trades.

[TooLiveBrew]

Call the Cards bluff.

 

Bingo. I especially like your idea on filling the roster spot to say 'We're good either way.' That is, unless filling that spot would somehow inherently kill the idea being discussed. Then, of course, you don't want to do that.

[trwi7]

Blalock had a .358 OBP Last season. Last year he hit Lefties at a .298 clip with a .370 OBP. I wouldnt platoon him. .309 hitter with RISP. .371 OBP with 2 outs.

 

I agree he was injured but he is about to hit magic # 27.

 

And in 2005 he had a .318 OBP and in 2006 he had a .325 OBP. His 3 year splits vs LHP are platoon worthy. .216/.267/.347/.614 that's Counsell'esque.

[TheCouga23]

Blalock could be a nice aquisition.

 

But I think this is just the Cardinals jockeying for more in the trade. They always knew the Brewers were in the same division, but they probably want to pressure Melvin into giving up more for him. If it is Capuano and a top prospect, that is fine with me. The Brewers have about a two or three year window to win now with the players they have, so they should be looking at making moves to put them over the top now instead of worrying about a prospect that could help them in three years.

 

Plus, if Rolen really hates the Cardinals, he's just going to be extra motivated to win the division with the Brewers and rub it in the Cardinals' face for trading him.