Rolen Trade, Latest: Glaus/Rolen swap (reply #795)

[TCSM]

or maybe we'll be singing a different tune then you think when we see 0 E's next to box score.

[TooLiveBrew]

What I don't get is why people were willing to be so patient with Weeks, but aren't willing to give Braun more time to improve his defense?

 

Harder to find the dynamic offense Weeks offers at 2B than it is to find a 3B that can provide some pop... and the timing thing mentioned by trwi7.

[JohnBriggs12]

They'll still be plenty of E7's when you put a guy in LF who's never played there.

[Brian the Automator]

Sorry to take this a bit off-topic, but what's the last Brewers deal (or rumored deal) you actually liked, JB?

[trwi7]

They'll still be plenty of E7's when you put a guy in LF who's never played there.

 

Are you honestly trying to say it's difficult to play LF? Chris Duncan, Carlos Lee, Manny Ramirez, Barry Bonds, Adam Dunn can all play there. It's one of the easiest positions in the field.

[JJHardy7]

Harder to find the dynamic offense Weeks offers at 2B than it is to find a 3B that can provide some pop... and the timing thing mentioned by trwi7.

 

I'd probably phrase it dynamic potential. Braun has proven he can hit consitently at the MLB level and Braun hasn't played his position professionally as much as Weeks had. Weeks probably won't continue to improve every year whereas Braun is quite young in his fielding development.

[Big Reed]

I would think if anyone was baiting it would be and that. he's the guy who posted the OBP stats to begin with "Just out of curiosity" and he should know my opinions of it based on my previous posts about Pierre and Crawford.. I took his bait and ran with it. And that is the guy who started getting this thread off track. Ii would think Power ball would be a good book and phrase for brewers baseball.

 

it's just whenever somebody is about to be traded or acquired, everyone uses stats to find fault with the player. my new 2008 philosophy is that maybe stats are overrated. Ok, I'll stop taking jabs at the stats.

 

I think rolen would make a fine addition to the brewers, and his salary is less than what KC just gave Guillen. the days of getting a quality player for less than $10 million are long gone.

[dpapo]

Latest information from Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch responding to a chat question. Chat is still going on.

 

Will L: Hey, Whats the latest on the Rolen trade front. I've been hearing would get Bill Hall and Capuano in return for Rolen, depending on how much his salary we eat. Are there any new developments we should know about?

Joe Strauss: Hall's name has received some play, but he was brutal at 3B before the Brewers moved him to the outfield. Hall is considered competent at short. Hall is a high-strikeout guy who hits home runs but doesn't drive in a ton of runs. Only once in his career has Hall played more than 11 games at third base. Action is progressing slowly today. There was a morning meeting of general manager. Teams are getting together now. The Brewers are more hopeful today about something happening than when they arrived.

http://www.stltoday.com/discussions/sports/joe-strauss-live/LD120307151/all

[Klements Bratwurst]

You guys will all be singing a different tune as Rolen visits the DL and Craig Counsell starts 50 games at 3B. Medical records? Yeah. Gord Ash thought he had medical information when he traded for Mike Sirotka while Blue Jay GM and it turned out Sirotka would never pitch again in the major leagues.

 

In that lineup of all right handers and Prince Fielder, watch while Fielder's HR totals drop to around 30.

JB,

While I typically seem to agree with alot of what you post, I find myself on the other side of this arguement, in that Rolen is exactly the fix we need for this team. I would hope though that the Brewers brass would not put Counsell at third but rather Dillon or may I say Hall back at third instead of Braun or Counsell full time if Rolen goes out for an extended period.

 

With the right handed heavy lineup, I do like the fact that the Brewers are well protected against tough loogy's late in the game, thus making the lineup a little more Yost proof (i.e.- Ned's going with the flow of the game arguement). I think the Brewers right handed hitters with the addition of Rolen are good enough to hit the tough right handed starters that they will face.

 

Gross, Counsell, and Gwynn make for a nice options off the bench.

 

Who knows though, if we get Rolen, maybe Melvin moves Hall for a left handed starting outfielder to put another lefty in the line up.

 

 

 

[jwill535]

You guys will all be singing a different tune as Rolen visits the DL and Craig Counsell starts 50 games at 3B. Medical records? Yeah. Gord Ash thought he had medical information when he traded for Mike Sirotka while Blue Jay GM and it turned out Sirotka would never pitch again in the major leagues.

 

In that lineup of all right handers and Prince Fielder, watch while Fielder's HR totals drop to around 30.

I dont have the stats the back this up, but didnt Prince do pretty good against lefties that pretty much eliminated the advatage?

 

[JohnBriggs12]

Brian,

 

I liked the Overbay to Blue Jays deal. I called the Lee/Podsednik deal two months before it happened. I loved the big deal last year with the D-Backs.

 

I've liked lots of deals but not one that is being done for PR purposes only and doesn't help the team. Melvin has a hole in his pocket ever since he couldn't get Cordero inked. He wants to make a big splash to impress Attanasio who knows little about baseball in my opinion. It's working but it's fundamentally flawed thinking and time will prove me right.

 

This offseason, the Cubs have extended the talent gap on the Brewers already.

[Brian the Automator]

my new 2008 philosophy is that maybe stats are overrated. Ok, I'll stop taking jabs at the stats.

That's like saying "facts are overrated". Statistics should be put in context, of course. But saying "stats are overrated" just because you don't want to take the time to learn how stats have a bearing on predicting the future just seems like a cop-out.

 

[PKBadger]

JohnBriggs12 wrote:

 

In that lineup of all right handers and Prince Fielder, watch while Fielder's HR totals drop to around 30.

 

 

 

I'm really having a hard time understanding all the complaints about the lineup being mostly right-handed. Would it be beneficial to be more balanced? Sure. But the fact remains that there's no such thing as a ROOGY. I'd venture to guess that the lefty-lefty matchup is far more precarious. Most pitchers are right-handed, and most batters are right-handed. They see enough of each other over the course of the season, so if a RH hitter has good overall stats, it probably means they can hold their own. And there's plenty of LHP in the NL Central for the mashers like Braun and Hall to feast on anyway (especially if Cappy ends up on the Cards).

I'd hate to see us pass on Rolen because of lineup balance.

 

[Robideaux]

it's just whenever somebody is about to be traded or acquired, everyone uses stats to find fault with the player. my new 2008 philosophy is that maybe stats are overrated.

Just out of curiosity, what should we use to judge players?

 

[TooLiveBrew]

I'd probably phrase it dynamic potential.

We just aren't on the same page re. Weeks, JJ7. Up to this point, yes - potential. Once 2008 starts, production. Btw, Weeks still has been a great offensive guy, he's just had trouble sustaining his BA due to his wrissues. Trust me, next year is going to be special from Rickie.

 

Jwill - Prince had very good success against LHP. Iirc, an OPS north of .850.

 

But the fact remains that there's no such thing as a ROOGY.

This is very untrue.

[Brian the Automator]

Brian,

 

I liked the Overbay to Blue Jays deal. I called the Lee/Podsednik deal two months before it happened. I loved the big deal last year with the D-Backs.

 

I've liked lots of deals but not one that is being done for PR purposes only and doesn't help the team. Melvin has a hole in his pocket ever since he couldn't get Cordero inked. He wants to make a big splash to impress Attanasio who knows little about baseball in my opinion. It's working but it's fundamentally flawed thinking and time will prove me right.

 

This offseason, the Cubs have extended the talent gap on the Brewers already.

Let's just wait and see what a Rolen actually would be, and what other deals are to be made before opening day before we call 2008 a loss and declare the Cubs the NL Central champs. I think people just get impatient when they see one team making deals, while another team has yet to make them.

 

 

 

[twobrewers]

You guys will all be singing a different tune as Rolen visits the DL and Craig Counsell starts 50 games at 3B.

I believe Dillon would back up Rolen. At this point Counsell is a defense substitute.

[Big Reed]

Joe Strauss is obviously not a Hall fan. I would ban him from posting here.

 

In the future, when talking about Hall, I'll just refer to Joe Strauss's expertise/opinion. That way, you can hate him rather than me. I've tried to say many people outside of Milwaukee are not very high on hall. I have no idea why. I'm positive he'll bounce back to his 2006 numbers.

 

sorry - too much caffeine free pepsi

[aracko]

Your not alone Briggs. I also have wanted Braun to stay at 3b. But the longer I think about adding Rolen the more I like the idea.

 

I am looking at this trade more or less as trading Jenkins for Rolen. Id take Rolens Presense in that lineup over Jenkins. Id take Rolens defense at 3rd base over Jenkins defense in LF. And While I dont want Braun to move to the OF, I have to agree that the learing curve is much less than at 3b. 3rd base might be the most difficult position to learn to play.

 

 

Braun could really be an asset in LF. His arm will really be a weapon out there, and he will be able to use his wheels, which I consider a tool that he doesnt get to use much being a middle of the order hitter and a 3rd baseman. Hardy and Rolen on the left side will also prevent alot of balls from making it thru to LF. Rolen at 3rd takes away the bunt option from the opposing team.

 

Its a bunch of small improvements that are going to add up if this is true. Consider me converted - this is probably the best move for the Brewers.

[Madtown Bomber]

Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch seems to feel that Bill Hall will need to be included for a deal to be completed. But the feeling is that the Brewers and Cardinals are going to finish this. They met this morning and are meeting as we speak.

[Brian the Automator]

Just out of curiosity, what should we use to judge players?

 

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/phearinc/8ball.jpg

[jlau20]

Cappy is one of my favorite Brewers, but I'd have to say he would be worth getting Rolen.

 

The more I hear about this the more I want it to happen.

[JohnBriggs12]

Brian,

 

Have you ever not liked a trade Melvin made? Everyone on here seems to be a Melvin cheerleader. When did he get the Brewers in the playoffs?

 

You talk about waiting until the offseason is over to judge. That's why getting Rolen upsets me so. The move of Braun to LF precludes them from adding the LH bat they need.

 

As for my comments on Fielder's production loss. Guys like Oswalt, Zambrano, Snell, Carpenter, and Harang who the Brewers see often are just not going to pitch to Fielder at all and they'll take their chances on Braun, Hart and Rolen. Rolen isn't bad against righties, but Braun and Hart are significantly worse against them. Teams will adjust their rotations to avoid throwing lefties.

[PKBadger]

TLB, I see your point....there are guys like Chad Bradford, for instance, who could be categorized as a ROOGY. But they are definitely less prevalent than the Shouses, Mike Myers, and Ray Kings of the world.

 

I'd say that most "ROOGYs" are merely RGYs. Right-handed guys.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, it just seems like the splits are way more severe when you're talking about lefty-lefty matchups.

[trwi7]

The move of Braun to LF precludes them from adding the LH bat they need.

I don't get why we need a LH bat. If the guy is a right handed hitter but he also hits right handed pitchers well then what's the difference?