Rolen Trade, Latest: Glaus/Rolen swap (reply #795)

[fondybrewfan]

Has 3 years with 36 million remaining. He would instantly improve our defense, but is probably an injury waiting to happen and looks like he has fell of considerably that last several years offensively. I doubt the Cards would trade within the division and I would have absolutely no idea on any sort of compensation, but it would have to involve the Cards taking some or the majority of his salary. For this I dont see it happening. I am not sure I can even picture many suitors at all for the oft injured but still very good defensive 3rd basemen

 

 

(Latest: Glaus/Rolen swap: reply #795 --1992)

[RobertR]

Except for the money, I still like Rolen. If there's a way to bring down the effective cost of his contract, I'd certainly be interested.

 

The Brewers really don't have any really bad contracts. Turnbow is overpaid, but not grossly, and they could part with Mench. Escobar might be of interest to the Cardinals, but I wouldn't throw him in unless St. Louis would eat part of Rolen's contract.

 

Robert

[endaround]

What the Cardinals do with Rolen depends a lot on what their time horizon is. If they hop to compete next year, they are almost forced to keep Rolen and hope he regains his health.

[dadofandrew]

I ditto Robert. At $36M and a huge, older injury risk (not to mention his inability to get along with people, apparently), I have little interest, but in a world where he costs less, he'd be a nice risk to take.

[colbyjack]

The Brewers and Cardinals could actually be a fairly good match, as the Cards need starting pitching, badly.

 

Nice story from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch yesterday covering the Rolen situation, who has a well-known dispute with manager Tony LaRussa:

 

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/00B301FCAA429C6A8625739300169280?OpenDocument

 

The Cardinals say they don't want to eat any of Rolen's contract, and that they also believe he'll be 100% by spring, if he isn't already. Both may not mean a dang thing, as they obviously aren't going to say anything other than that publicly to decrease Rolen's perceived value.

 

With the stories popping us this morning about Braun possiblity moving to LF it makes Rolen a legitimate possibility. Our IF defense would go from shaky at best to average at worst, and Rolen is exactly the type of hitter the team could use and that Melvin has stated that he wants.

 

The Cardinals also need a SS and according to the story they're interested in a RH hitting OF. I'm not sure if we could help them with the SS, unless Bill Hall gets involved and/or Alcides Escobar if they're willing to wait, but the Brewers do have one of the best lefty-killing RH-hitting OFs out there in Mench.

 

Would Capuano, Mench and Escobar for Rolen and possibly a fringe prospect get laughed at if offered? Capuano's and Mench's upcoming arbitration hearings will off-set the money somewhat, and I really can't see the Cardinals getting "true" value for Rolen given his injury and contract situations.

[aracko]

Id like Melvin Mora more, who comes with much less of a contract and less of an injury risk. I am afraid of trading with the Cards.

[fondybrewfan]

I would offer the Cards this:

 

Brewers Get:

Scott Rolen

 

Cardinals Get:

Chris Capuano

Mat Gamel

Other Prospect

 

The catch would be the Cardinals picking up $5 million annually on the $13 million a year contract. This would increase the payroll by what maybe $6 million. If Rolen were to stay healthy I think it would be a steal. And with his range and accuracy would make the whole infield better. Perhaps JJ could play up the hole a little more knowing Scott might get to balls that in the past Braun or Koskie or any other Brewer couldnt have gotten to.

[MoneyballMan]

The Brewers and Cardinals could actually be a fairly good match, as the Cards need starting pitching, badly.

 

Nice story from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch yesterday covering the Rolen situation, who has a well-known dispute with manager Tony LaRussa:

 

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/00B301FCAA429C6A8625739300169280?OpenDocument

 

The Cardinals say they don't want to eat any of Rolen's contract, and that they also believe he'll be 100% by spring, if he isn't already. Both may not mean a dang thing, as they obviously aren't going to say anything other than that publicly to decrease Rolen's perceived value.

 

With the stories popping us this morning about Braun possiblity moving to LF it makes Rolen a legitimate possibility. Our IF defense would go from shaky at best to average at worst, and Rolen is exactly the type of hitter the team could use and that Melvin has stated that he wants.

 

The Cardinals also need a SS and according to the story they're interested in a RH hitting OF. I'm not sure if we could help them with the SS, unless Bill Hall gets involved and/or Alcides Escobar if they're willing to wait, but the Brewers do have one of the best lefty-killing RH-hitting OFs out there in Mench.

 

Would Capuano, Mench and Escobar for Rolen and possibly a fringe prospect get laughed at if offered? Capuano's and Mench's upcoming arbitration hearings will off-set the money somewhat, and I really can't see the Cardinals getting "true" value for Rolen given his injury and contract situations.

You may not be far off on this suggestion. They're saying the right things and indicating that they won't give him away, but I think the reality of the situation is they NEED to get rid of him. According to some reports, the rift between Rolen and LaRussa are irreparable at this point.

[colbyjack]

A deal that would make a ton of sense (well, at least to me) would be to involve the White Sox in a three-team deal, with Jon Garland and Joe Crede going to the Cardinals, Rolen coming to Milwaukee and some kind of package going to the White Sox, possibly with a few extra parts exchanging hands between all three teams. I'm not sure what the White Sox would be looking for, since they seem somewhat set at almost every position outside of LF and 2B (assuming Josh Fields takes over at third), and they obviously want to move Garland, I'm assuming to make room for a offer to Torii Hunter who they've been all over before FA even started.

 

I remember when the Carlos Lee deal went down the talent involved seemed somewhat lopsided, as the Brewers didn't seem to have to give up as much to land Lee. However, it was noted that the White Sox were trying to clear payroll to pursue Jermaine Dye IIRC. And both Crede and Garland reportedly are on the market.

[Klements Bratwurst]

Help me remember, Rolen had a bad shoulder injury a few years ago that limited his play/shortenend his season. In 2006 he played pretty much the full season. Then off again in 2007. What exactly is his injury history? Has he had the kind of injuries that screams of the chronic variety?

The good thing is that he is only 32-33 and yes he is overpaid, but with that said, if we could get him at a discount, and if his injury risk isn't as terrible as it might seem, Rolen would be a perfect fit for the club (gold glove D, professional hitter), provided his body acts like a 32 year old and not that of a 39 year old on its last playing days....

[TURBO]

do we really want a guy who will play 100 games at 3B, possibly less...

 

I'm sick of injured guys, no reason to go this route at all.

[sbrylski]

If our doctors take a look at him and think he'll be healthy, and we can get the total cost cut down about $10 million, then big yes. The people on this board who talk about changing our attitudes because we are now a contendor, I'd think this acquisition would fit right in. A bit of a risk, and a bit expensive, but we need to get proven well rounded players.

 

He's only 32, and players have recovered well from much worse.

 

At the very least, we get some injury tainted seasons of league average ball from him. With the right depth pieces, it could be covered for and not hurt too much. At the very best, we just landed 3 years of an all-star 3B, both defensively and offensively, carrying a great OBP at an increasingly solid contract relative to rising FA costs.

 

We've got a hole in our payroll right now with revenues shooting up, we aren't going to fill it with free agent relievers. We still have a few years before our young guns are going to really digging into the wallet - now's the time to make a move like this.

[reillymcshane]

You have to question the trade value of Rolen. He's missed 1/3 of last year, 2/3 of 2005. He'll be 33 in April. He's had a lot of wear and tear - was a full timer at age 22. Doesn't bode well. Teams know he's being shopped. Some people feel he has an attitude. His .799 OPS over the past 3 years is good - not great. And he's going to cost $36 million - guarenteed.

That said, if the club can take the salary, this is the kind of risk that can be brilliant (or murderous). If you could get him and have him rebound to a better hit - even a .800 OPS guy with great defense, you could greatly improve your club. Giving him regular rest would be important.

The main thing is that you shouldn't pay that much. I'm not that great at determining fair trade value, but I'd say Cappy and Mench is a starting point, Main thing, is how much we pick up of Rolen's tab. If it's everything, we shouldn't give much more than that. Perhaps I'm wrong, and Rolen's value is more than I think. I just look at the $$$ he makes, and the question marks - and there are a lot of them. $36 million is a lot of money to pick up.

My other issue with getting Rolen is that this would make this team very, very righthanded. Only Prince and Estrada would be lefthanded regulars.

[endaround]

Capuano is only included if the Cards eat a bunch of salary

[logan82]

I would offer the Cards this:

 

Brewers Get:

Scott Rolen

 

Cardinals Get:

Chris Capuano

Mat Gamel

Other Prospect

To much. Even for a healty Rolen. I think we can get the high OBP guy we need for much less.

[twobrewers]

Sign me up.

I think St. Louis will basically end up giving away Rolen unless they eat salary. They pretty much need to trade him - because it seems him and La Russa can't get a long.

I would rather take 3 years and 36 million of Rolen than throw 4 years and 45 million at Cordero.

If Rolen stays healthy and Braun moves to LF, our team defense improves dramatically. It is a risk, but I would rather throw money at a guy like Rolen that overpay for bullpen arms.

[twobrewers]

Forgot to mention -

 

It is hard to judge his medical history - but with advances in medicine improving there aren't nearly as many career threatening injuries anymore.

 

In the NBA micro-fracture surgery used to be the kiss of death - now players are back at full strength about a year later.

 

And lets not forget Joe Dillon. Out of baseball - new medical advances - back in baseball.

[recte44]

Yes please, but for Claudio Vargas and a prospect, St. Louis eats some of Rolen's contract.

[yoshii8]

I don't think St. Louis would give him up for Vargas and cash, Rolen was the top 3rd baseman in the league for a while, and very good for 2 of the last four years. I think he could really have a great couple of years left in him, the guy is a very good baseball player. I think hes the type of guy that would get a chip on his shoulder and really have a great couple of seasons, kind of like one of his teammates Jim Edmonds.

[twobrewers]

I don't think St. Louis would give him up for Vargas

I would offer Vargas + Escobar. And I think St. Louis would be all over that - assuming we took the contract on. We might not even need to inclued Escobar.

 

Is his value much different than Koskie's value a few years ago? We got the Blue Jays to eat his salary AND trade him to use for nothing. If we are willing to eat all of Rolen's salary, St. Louis's asking price would be very low.

[billyhallfan]

I would offer Vargas + Escobar. And I think St. Louis would be all over that - assuming we took the contract on. We might not even need to inclued Escobar.

 

and why would they do that just for vargas?, it isn't a secret, other teams know that Vargas sucks.

[endaround]

Vargas is a #5 pitcher who is under control for two years at below market value. The Brewers have like 7 better starting options, but that doesn't mean Vargas is worthless. And given that Cards maybe looking to dump Rolen's contract, it isn't farfetched.

[Brian the Automator]

I would offer Vargas + Escobar. And I think St. Louis would be all over that - assuming we took the contract on. We might not even need to inclued Escobar.

 

Is his value much different than Koskie's value a few years ago? We got the Blue Jays to eat his salary AND trade him to use for nothing. If we are willing to eat all of Rolen's salary, St. Louis's asking price would be very low.

My thoughts exactly. St Louis would give Rolen away for nothing, if they had the opportunity. I wouldn't be surprised if the Brewers were able to flip someone like ZachJack for him, with St. Louis picking up half the salary.

My money still is on the Brewers keeping Braun at 3B and finding an alternate LF plan.

 

[dadofandrew]

SL picked up Piniero on waivers last year from BOS and put him right in the rotation. A 5 ERA to them does not look bad at all.

[Brian the Automator]

SL picked up Piniero on waivers last year from BOS and put him right in the rotation. A 5 ERA to them does not look bad at all.

That was a StL rotation minus Mulder and Carpenter... not to mention any other possible pickups they might make this offseason.... I'm not sure if they're planning on spending this offseason, but their rotation could go from terrible to good in short order.