Herges, Hawkins, Mahay and maybe Riske

[endaround]

People seem to associate some risk with signing Riske, and I don't see why. Sure he had a really nice season with the Royals, but he's been remarkably consistent (a good consistent) over most of his career. I've been pining for him the past couple of years.

 

Hawkins would be alright as bullpen depth, in a Dave Burba type role. I wouldn't want him after the 7th inning, though. Herges will be 38 next season, and his peripherals are bothersome. He posted a great ERA last year, but in only 50 innings pitched. He'll get more than he'll deserve.

I don't think Riske will blow up, I just don't think he's a sub 2.5 ERA type guy. His control is questionable and not sure if his strikeouts will perk back up. But he's going to be paid as a top flight reliever. Now given top flight (non-closing) relievers are still relatively cheap it wouldn't be a big loss if he fulls down into the 3.75 -4.0 range.

 

[brettac1]

Mahay's really the only one I'm even semi-interested in (at least off the list of names by TH), but even that gets hurt by how many guys he walks. They just don't need more relievers with control issues. He's pretty much like Shouse or a step below.

 

I think you can just pick a guy up off the scrap heap to do what Hawkins or Herges bring you at this point, not to mention that they're going to be overpaid because they were on a playoff team.

 

I would possibly like Gagne or Dotel, just because there's some good upside there, and I've been on the Fuentes bandwagon for quite a while.

[dadofandrew]

One thing to remember is Hawkins and Herges pitched half their games in Coors, where breaking balls do not move much, which could easily result in less impressive secondary numbers and K rates. I'd take either one of them gladly, as I would nearly any veteran solid but unspectacular reliever. Depth is a good thing.

[brettac1]

I'd take either one of them gladly, as I would nearly any veteran solid but unspectacular reliever. Depth is a good thing.

 

Right, I'm just saying there's a million of these guys out there. And not all of them are going to cost $4 million or whatever they'll get. Hawkins was excellent back when he got more K's ('02-'04 he was one of the better relievers in the league) but now he's just a dime a dozen league average guy. With the kind of peripherals - which for them are not exclusive to Coors - these guys post, it's very possible to be league average one season, below average the next, and above average the next.

 

My point is that with relievers such as these, future performance is so unpredictable that it's not really a great move to give them multi-year deals.

[JJHardy7]

Who are some of these million guys? Do any of them wear a Brewers uniform? I agree a lot here with Al. We're going to have to spend money and it's more money than they're actually worth, etc., but I think it should be noted these guys pitched at Coors. If there were a million of these guys, I'd hope we could grab a couple for our bullpen.

 

Why not roll the dice with at least one of them (if the contract years wise etc works out). We're going to have to spend money and I won't be upset if we spend money on the bullpen and it doesn't work out.

[brettac1]

but I think it should be noted these guys pitched at Coors.

 

As I said - they weren't good prior to this year. The bad K rates, etc. have been a continuing thing Coors and non-Coors.

 

As for examples of these guys - how about Matt Wise as one in a Brewers uniform. Of course, he has a fragile psyche. LaTroy Hawkins, on the other hand, obviously has ice water in his veins. I mean look at how he locked it down with the Cubs.

 

Here's more guys who might be pretty much the same and much cheaper:

Rudy Seanez - he's always #1 on my list every offseason

Scott Cassidy

Jason Davis

Nate Field

Brian Moehler

Chad Paronto

Jay Witasick

 

I'd rather sign all those guys for less than what it would take to sign two of Herges, Hawkins, Riske, and Mahay.

 

Not to mention there will be non-tenders and trades in the offseason and at the end of spring training when teams are going to cut guys free or DFA them. I have no problem paying for guys that are good and have repeated success. The guys mentioned today by Haudricourt don't really fit that. Hawkins is close, but he'll be 35 with a lower K rate.

[Tbadder]

Chad Cordero and Riske. I'd keep Vargas as the long man. Keep Shouse and King super cheap, and put Bush in the pen. That's two innings eaters, two LOOGYs, set-up and closer. I'd ship Turnbow out. I really want to see what Jack will do with the Linebrink/Cordero picks. I might give Stetter a shot, but I'd feel better with him in AAA.

[brosto1]

brettac- Excellent posts, I would also have to agree about Seanez, Davis, and Paronto. Davis has as good an arm as Turnbow with about the same control he had when he first came to Milwaukeee. Other guys that I would throw out there are some of the Japanese relievers, who knows maybe you get the next Okajima. There are also plenty of minor league free agents( Franklyn German, Ryan Bukvich, Chad Harville, Cliff Politte, Dan Giese) that I would take a chance on rather than spending money on a guy like Herges.

[dadofandrew]

I have no problem with signing a couple of the cheap fellas too. However, even if Hawkins and Herges have limited upside, I'm happy to have vets in the bullpen. I think many are too concerned about cash. Guys don't cost $500K anymore, just like SP's don't cost $2M. It's a fact of life.

[TooLiveBrew]

The point isn't that RP isn't cheap anymore, it's that you can get similar production for (in some cases) a fraction of the cost - whatever the ratio(s) may be. Avoiding blowing money on the 'pen is something a small market team needs to watch very closely, and if presented with such an opportunity, why should whether or not a guy's pitched on a team that made the postseason matter?

[splitterpfj]

Matt Herges' agent, on negotiations with the Rockies - "We are close, that is fair to say," said Herges' agent Danny Horwits. "But we aren't done yet. There are still other teams involved."

 

This is as flimsy as a rumor gets, but mlbtraderumors.com says, "Herges is seeking a 2-year deal, Milwaukee is believed to be interested."

 

There is no relief pitcher alive who can't cash in right now.

[ILuvDaBush]

Well, as mentioned earlier, Turnbow/Aquino/McClung all have power arms to go along with their experience as closers. Even our new addition, The Marijuana Man, has closer's experience. That said, I want Gagne, and I'm hoping that Snoop Doug can use his superior ability of rhetoric to convice the Once and Future Closer to do a Kendall-type deal (One year with a vesting option).

[aracko]

Just imagine what Turnbow is worth in trade! Not that we should trade him but he could bring in quite the player id bet.

[PeaveyFury]

Even our new addition, The Marijuana Man, has closer's experience.

 

I know this is relatively off-topic, but was Mota's suspension really for Marijuana and not PED's?

[dadofandrew]

His suspension was for steroids, PF.

[recte44]

I think what ILDB was getting at is:

Mota= Marijuana in Espanol. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif