Phillies get Brad Lidge

[lukevan]

On the Brewers end, I think Melvin has to be thinking that he will end up signing either Linebrink or Cordero, otherwise he could've put together a better package than that for Lidge.

[jschris]

I've asked this same question for other trades, so I'll bring it up again: what would this package equate to in terms of Brewer prospects? I have some theories, but I'd like to read other opinions.

[bretsky07]

what would this package equate to in terms of Brewer prospects?

 

Gwynn Jr, Aquino, Heether?

[Thurston Fluff]

would have loved to see the Brewers dangle Turnbow if all the Phillies wanted was a hard thrower with a fragile psyche.

Both blew up in the same year only Turnbow blew up a little worse. Both recovered somewhat this year only Lidge recovered to a higher level. Over the course of their careers Lidge has had the better of it. Last Lidge was clearly better. Lower ERA, lower WHIP, better k/bb ratio but he did have a worse BAA than Turnbow. I get what you're saying but if all they had to give up was that then they got the better guy.

Bourn seems like a different shade of TGJ to me.

Ditto. It give me hope Gwynn can net us something of value in the pen.

My buddy is a Phillies phan and thinks the world of Bourn Identity. He considers him a real sleeper - I think Houston made out OK if Bourn can get on base at a decent clip.

He might be right but how many Brewer fans think Gwynn is a viable answer to centerfield here? All it takes for fans is a couple base hits in timely spots by a young player and they are on the bandwagon. After a year or two of mediocrety that tune changes.

On the Brewers end, I think Melvin has to be thinking that he will end up signing either Linebrink or Cordero, otherwise he could've put together a better package than that for Lidge.

I wonder know how much better a package it would have taken to get him from a division rival. Certainly if Houston received similar packages he'd still have been traded to the Phillies.

[Fatter than Joey]

Dude pitches in Major League Baseball, and he shouldn't have confidence? Yikes.

Well. He can have all the confidence he cares to have. My point was that, it wasn't the "Brewers' fans" or even "Turnbow's fragile mental makeup" that made turned him into a bad pitcher. He has always had a lot of problems, and is just not a great dependable pitcher. Turnbow is a classic example of "you can take the pitcher out of the scrap-heap, but you can't take the scrap-heap out of the pitcher." -- All of these types of pitchers (Kolb, Helling, etc.) are able to string together a good season here and there, and can be effective when used sparingly -- but at the end of the day, they just are not Grade A relievers. I don't think Turnbow is as good as a pitcher as Lidge, and I think if Doug Melvin could have traded Turnbow for 3 Phillies, he would have -- my guess is that the Phillies valued Lidge way more than Turnbow.

The move makes a lot of sense to me from the Phillies perspective -- They improve their BP and rotation, Geary is replaceable. If Costanzo makes it into a MLB 3b, then this trade makes sense for Houston as well -- but that seems like a long shot. Bourn is like TGJ to me, he is probably a suitable 4th/5th OF.

As I think about it more -- I think it is very likely that the Stros have Cordero and/or Linebrink in their crosshairs -- with Lidge gone, they could certainly
use both. I think trading Lidge this early could mean that they have an inside track to one or both of these guys.

In the unlikely event that they get both -- that would suck for the Brewers, as they would only get 2 comp. picks a 2nd and a 3rd. (at best)

[JohnBriggs12]

This deal does seem to make Luke Scott even more expendable.

[twobrewers]

After thinking more about all of this, I am really unimpressed with the players the Astros received. They don't seem to be the most "major league" ready players - and everything I have heard says the Astros are looking to turn their ship around and try to win this year. (Hence their interest in Coco and Linebrink)

Not to mention, if Philly loses Lidge next year in free agency, the Philly's will likely get two high draft picks for compensation. I think those picks alone are more valuable than the players that Philadelphia gave up. (Those picks will be high ceiling players - whereas they traded away 3 limited ceiling players) Plus I think Pence was more valuable to Houston in CF - I don't really like moving him to LF.

[brosto1]

Bourn has shown a bit more in the ability to draw walks than Gwynn throughout their minor league careers. I think they are both good defensively. I think Bourn will have a bit more gap power than Gwynn as evidenced by their minor league numbers and physical appearance. Very similar players, but I think Bourn is definitely the better of the two and the safer bet to be an everyday CF that will leadoff and get on base at .375 or higher clip.

 

I have to think Turnbow's value should be close to Lidge. Lidge did not pitch consistently well when he was in the closer's role, other than when he initially regained the role in July. The last two months his ERA was over 5.00 compared to the ERA of 1.27 in 42.2 IP he compiled after he initially lost the closer's role in April, granted he was dealing with a sore knee late in the season but I am not convinced he will be a guy that will thrive in Philly. He reminded me so much of Turnbow last year, they were either dominant or brutal and rarely anthing in between. It is not so easy to remember the good games when the bad ones are so bad.

[Tbadder]

The Turnbow-Lidge comparison is clear enough and a just another reason why Melvin, intelligently, stayed away from pursuing Lidge.

[Fatter than Joey]

The Turnbow-Lidge comparison is clear enough and a just another reason why Melvin, intelligently, stayed away from pursuing Lidge.

 

Too bad he wasn't as intelligent when he extended Turnbow.

[brettac1]

I like Costanzo quite a bit. I followed him during college on Boyd Nation's site back in the day. He K's a lot back then, too, but he was a walks machine. I think he's Cust-lite.

[TooLiveBrew]

One thing I've been pondering today is how Lidge's SLGA will play in Citizens Bank Park. He was unable to keep his SLGA under .400 for a second straight year in 2007, and if he can't rein it in for '08, we could be looking at a .450 or higher SLGA for a RP. The fans in Philly would be patient, though.