You Have To Give To Get, Kids

[Mass Haas]

Starting its own thread so I'm not singling anyone specific out, but you have to love the Trade Rumors thread.

 

Invariably, if it's not one of the few threads that discusses a substantiated rumor (meaning it's a proposal thread), you can count on something like this:

 

Hey, how about the Brewers trade (insert "never enough" package here) for so-and-so (insert Brewers making out like bandits here).

 

And then (rightfully so), the posts come in indicating why the original proposal leans so heavily towards the Crew.

 

I'm glad folks enjoy the forum, and sorry to be a smug party-pooper, but let's look at both sides realistically when proposing deals...

 

OK, let me have it...

[splitterpfj]

I agree Mass, and it's not just here, every fan site always has "Three AAAA guys for All-Star and bench player" ideas on it.

[dadofandrew]

The mere fact they bring up the other teams' top prospects/players and never a mention of Yo, Ryan, or Prince pretty much says it all. Excellent post, Mass.

[TooLiveBrew]

Agreed. An injection of levity into this forum is much needed, and would be very useful.

[pogokat]

i bet we can get rob neyer for you, fwiw.

[wallus]

I can see where the elitism comes from when posts like this are made. If you disagree, post to that poster, please don't preach that you know what players are worth.

[homer]

Not to party poop on your party pooping, but whats the big deal? I generally stay out of threads where guys want to trade Bill Hall for Johan Santana but for every ridiculous proposal there are generally three or four legitimate proposals that are generated as a result. I hate to use the term 'elitest' because that's really not what this thread is, but it is a tad condescending in my opinion.

[BrewCityUnit]

Just the title of the thread makes me shake me head. As little as calling a group of poster's kids to prove your point is tasteless in my opinion.

[chuckiehacks]

i bet we can get rob neyer for you, fwiw.

 

Would TGJ, ZachJack and Vargas get it done? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

 

[brosto1]

Excellent post, Mass. Not that I posted a lot, but have visited this site for many years now. I generally like the rumors page to be more rumors than some crazy proposals, the way it once was. I understand that people want to think of ways to make the Brewers a better team, but those proposals should also make the other team better as well.

[Oldcity]

Like you said, posters point out when a proposed trade would never be accepted. What is the point of an entirely new post about it? I don't really see what it accomplishes.

[TooLiveBrew]

just a guess, but to avoid posters from having to 'police' that kind of stuff. I really don't take MH's point as elitist, just trying to avoid the 6-post-long 'TGJ + Vargas for Miguel Cabrera' threads. What's wrong with that?

[paul253]

I don't agree with a lot of the trades posted, but instead of sitting back and saying...."thats a dumb idea and will never happen", post a similar trade you think may happen (that quote wasn't directed at anyone specific, just as general quote of people who speak down on other people's ideas but never come up with any of their own)

[bobskube]

This is really the only time of year that I check this part of the forum and many times ridiculous trades are being bantered about and you just chuckle a bit.

 

However, this is just a trade "forum" so I expect there to be a lot of odd trade ideas that are uneven. It is all about having fun once and awhile. I surely hope nobody would go on here and assume any of these trades were actually going to happen. On that note, if someone actually has inside info, that they would post it on the MLB board. I remember some guy on here breaking the Ryan Braun news on there about him being called up well before it was official.

 

For now, this forum is just for 'what if" trades so I see no problem in people throwing things up against the wall to see if they will stick.

[Roscoe Chill]

I'll have to agree with Mass. Before the internet existed, The Trade Rumors section on a website like this would have been my favorite thing in the world (Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get my drift). But I rarely even come here, even during the busy off season time we're entering because, quite frankly, most of the stuff on this thread is so far fetched it's not worth the read.

 

I love hearing what other people see/hear in all media forms that not all of us catch, and that's what this forum should be about. Most rumors don't come true as it is, but if they're at least brought up by someone in the media, it's something fun to discuss at least. Some of the imaginary video game-esque trades that are proposed here just will never happen.

[mothershipconnection]

Not to party poop on your party pooping, but whats the big deal?

 

Some people get really touchy when their idea of Gwynn and Dillon for Hanley Ramirez is laughed at. Then, and this is the biggest thing, IMO, the thread just turns into "that's ridiculously stupid" and is a waste of space.

[Mass Haas]

If you disagree, post to that poster, please don't preach that you know what players are worth.

 

It's very early in the true rumors season, so why not nip this in the bud? It wasn't one or two threads over the past week that prompted my post, but several. A definite trend, if you will.

 

whats the big deal? I generally stay out of threads where guys want to trade Bill Hall for Johan Santana but for every ridiculous proposal there are generally three or four legitimate proposals that are generated as a result.

 

But if you generally stay out of the threads that begin with that type of proposal (not as extreme as you mention), then how do you get to the legitimate proposals that are then generated -- are they in different threads?

 

As little as calling a group of poster's kids to prove your point is tasteless in my opinion.

 

Kids, guys, folks -- they're all terms of endearment. I'm simply most likely older, and not necessarily wiser, than most of you. I love you kids! Now let's play nice.

[wallus]

I guess I do not understand why you feel the need to censor people's ideas because you find them to be unrealistic. It is very easy to not read them in the first place or like others have said, offer up your own ideas.

[mothershipconnection]

I guess I do not understand why you feel the need to censor people's ideas

 

He's not talking about censorship, though, he's just encouraging people to self-edit so we don't end up with two pages of wild ideas that clutter the forum and don't go anywhere.

 

Nobody is saying "don't be creative and come up with trade proposals". Rather it's an encouragement to not jump on every available good player with an idea that's never gonna work.

[Fatter than Joey]

Then, and this is the biggest thing, IMO, the thread just turns into "that's ridiculously stupid" and is a waste of space.

 

I agree however, maybe the "that's ridiculously stupid" crowd should practice a little more discretion.

[reillymcshane]

I can, honestly, see both points of view. I guess where I agree with the original post is that quite a few threads of unrealistic trade proposals can get littered with people pointing out how ridiculous they are, and people getting defensive about people pointing out their ridiculous threads, etc. But most of all, the legitimate ideas can get lost in the thread. Someone said to make counter suggestions to unrealistic proposals, but again, what can happen is that one realistic one can get surrounded by a bunch of unnecessary posts pointing out how stupid or whatever the idea was to begin with.

 

I'd rather have fewer, quality posts, then have to wade through the junk.

 

On the other hand, it is a forum. There are people are over the spectrum in knowledge. Perhaps someone honestly feels something is realistic. Some times, just throwing names can get people thinking, get people talking. On the whole, I find those less valuable because of the reasons stated above.

[wallus]

Nobody is saying "don't be creative and come up with trade proposals". Rather it's an encouragement to not jump on every available good player with an idea that's never gonna work.

Then who is the judge of this? I am pretty sure everybody thinks their trade proposal is legitimate. This site has been a great resource for people to learn about baseball and I think we should keep it that way and not give them more ammunition on being elitists.

[lukevan]

Then who is the judge of this?

 

Everyone should be judging this themselves when they decide to start a thread. That's the point. If someone has a trade idea, they should research a little just to see how plausible it'd be and think about whether or not the other team would seriously be interested in our players, instead of picking the players we don't want on our team anymore and trading them for players we want.

 

This site has been a great resource for people to learn about baseball and I think we should keep it that way and not give them more ammunition on being elitists.

 

You don't need to start trade proposal threads to learn from the forums. I've probably started 2-3 threads in my entire time at BF.net. If someone has a question about what it would take to get Player X, they can start a thread with that open-ended question and will likely get a quick answer.

 

The moderation of this site is a huge reason this is such a great resource for learning about baseball.

[biedergb]

I'd rather have fewer, quality posts, then have to wade through the junk.

 

You mean you don't have a team full of servants to read through all the BF.net posts and then act out the good ones for you?... in mime?

 

Seriously, though, this is akin to the consolidation of threads that we have in the other forums, so that we don't have five threads about Prince after he hits a home run, or several posts about the Yankees signing an Aboriginal left handed catcher. We could simply have a thread about a player or a team, and then suggestion could be made in that thread, rather than 3 separate threads about what we would offer team X for the same player Y.

[colbyjack]

I am pretty sure everybody thinks their trade proposal is legitimate.

 

That has been very clear recently, as I have been pretty close to suggesting the very same thing.

 

Mass wasn't trying to come down on anyone for tossing out ideas, as he could have easily done so by pointing to specific proposal and poster. He was simply asking people to think about the ideas from both sides of the spectrum. Think about the deal from the other team's perspective, as if you were a fan of that team. What kind of package would you want for a player that is similar on the Brewers in value and overall impact to the player you want to get from that other team?