Ted Simmons new bench coach!

[RoseBowlMtg]

On the Homer's show Simmons said: as I paraphrase: Managing is about how you react to three to four things during a game. Why do you throw a 0-2 fastball to a strict fastball hitter with runners on 2nd and 3rd?

 

"Everyone knows when you should take a pitcher out you just have to listen to the fans, the key in managing is knowing before the pitcher is done." If Simmons can improve the Brewers on that one aspect that could make up two games.

 

As for if Yost will listen to Simmons he has been every year from 82 on. He is getting a person he respects who he knows isn't there to manage the team in the future for the sole purpose that this will help him in all aspects of managing. This was a very inspired hire.

[MoneyballMan]

I agree that it was a good hire. Regardless of what anyone feels about Yost today, it's always nice to have depth in-house (with managerial candidates as well as players). Same can be said about business - I'd be foolish not to have depth wherever possible. Great hire.

 

Now let's re-sign Coco and get us a LF!

[buckeyesteve]

Well said Jay Zahn....very well said INDEED!

[Thurston Fluff]

Well -- Simmons was running STL's minor leagues, so it is pretty fair to guess that he wanted Ned to work in the minors. Ned may be desirable to be a minor league coach -- it's a whole different universe.

 

Yet many feel Kremblas is the second coming of Earl Weaver precisely because of his perfromance in the whole differant universe.

 

My problem with Yost with regard to Tbow was more about the situations he was placed in, and not recognizing when Tbow was struggling, not so much workload

 

The fact that Turnbow is only capable of pitching in certain situations says a lot more about Turnbow than it does Yost. The bullpen had toomany guys like that. He has Wise with a glass arm who rarley is capable of pitching back to back days, Turnbow who's can't pitch unless he starts the inning and regularly falls apart if someone is on base, Villy who was just learning how to relieve ect. I do believe he recognized when Turnbow was struggling but what were his options? He would have to have someone up everytime Turnbow was about to pitch which would have taxed the arms of others unnecessarily on the 1 in 5 chance Turnbow would be Turnblow that day. Most managers have a couple relievers they can rely on. Yost didn't have that. To expect him to use every pitcher in only the perfect circumstance is a little unrealistic considering most opponents don't willingly provide them all that often. Put the blame for Turnbow's failings on the person it belongs...Turnbow.

[RoseBowlMtg]

Interesting hearing Paul Wagner talk on Doug Russell's show about the killing of a 600 lb bear. They went on for 5 minutes then right before signing off he said: You know my first year in Pittsburgh Ted Simmons was the GM. He said the guy knows so much about baseball he was amazed. He thought this was an incredible move for the Brewers. So a young ball player was moved by Simmons and still marvels about it 13 years later. This is going to be really good!

[whizkid]

At the end of the day, this is a Brewer fansite -- some players receive way to

much credit -- some receive way to much criticism, objectivity is never going to be a strength of this site, -- and I am not sure it should be.

 

There are plenty of weakly moderated crap forums, ESPN, MLB, JS where people can rant and not be objective and post the same things over and over and over and over again. This site is trying as best it can, while still being inclusive, to elevate discussion above those other forums, not just language etc. but the baseball content. For the most part it succeeds in being better but unfortunately some see it as just another fansite.

[Fatter than Joey]

The fact that Turnbow is only capable of pitching in certain situations says a lot more about Turnbow than it does Yost.

 

I would agree to some degree -- and I would throw DM into the culpability mix as well.

 

I do believe he recognized when Turnbow was struggling but what were his options?

 

There were a number of time where he could have gotten Cordero to pitch an extra 1/3 of an inning.

 

Put the blame for Turnbow's failings on the person it belongs...Turnbow.

 

I certainly agree that Turnbow needs to be on the hook -- really though -- All I was addressing that when I look at how Yost managed the BP

in 2007 my concerns are not solely the "overworked" angle rather the pitcher choice and matchups that Yost generated.

 

I would agree in a heartbeat that DM needs to be on the hook for not giving Ned Yost as good an arsenal of weapons, and I certainly share Jay's concern

that there are not a lot of bright options in the minors.

 

However, I really do believe that a better/different manager would have gotten better results out of that pitching staff than Ned did.

 

Yet many feel Kremblas is the second coming of Earl Weaver precisely because of his perfromance in the whole differant universe.

 

Well -- That's not a fair comparison. Kremblas's resume is way different than Ned's

 

People here like Kremblas because what they perceive he has done for the Brewers organization. For me personally, I think Kremblas deserves

to be part of the replacement process when Yost gets fired, but I would hope that the Brewers could hire someone with a managerial track

record in MLB.

 

When the comment was made about Simba offering Yost a job, -- my point was that Simba was running STL's minor leagues at that time, and while he may have

felt that Yost would make a great minor league coach/instructor -- there shouldn't be a leap that this means that Simba wanted Yost to manage a major league

team.

[Thurston Fluff]

People here like Kremblas because what they perceive he has done for the Brewers organization.

 

I've specifically asked why people like him so much. The top answer was because he won. So it wasn't for what he did for the organization which, incidentally, he hasn't done more than several other guys in the organization like Sedar and Money. I get what you're saying though. I thought Yost did well with young developing players on the Brewers. Which is what he would have been doing as a minor league manager. The only differance we seem to have is I think Yost can manage good teams not just developing teams. He does need some help in certain areas which is hopefully what he's going to get with Simmons.

[areacodes]

However, I really do believe that a better/different manager would have gotten better results out of that pitching staff than Ned did.

 

 

Thats a fair opinion, but it is just that opinion. I could also argue that, with the retreads that are in our bullpen Yost did get a lot out of his pitchers. I mean, how did Shouse, T-bow, Wise, etc. pitch before they came to the Brewers? Maybe the other managers they played for before did a worse job? Maybe as the player gained more experience they improved? I'd lean towards the latter, or a combination, but I think it really comes down to how the player performs. I think that most of the hatred for Ned is misplaced. If people want to get mad they shouldn't just be upset with Ned. They should be upset with the people who are on the field and aren't performing as well as the person who is responsible for the make-up of this team. I'd say there are a lot of people who are taking their anger out on Ned when they really should be more upset with Melvin and the players.

 

 

When the comment was made about Simba offering Yost a job, -- my point was that Simba was running STL's minor leagues at that time, and while he may have felt that Yost would make a great minor league coach/instructor -- there shouldn't be a leap that this means that Simba wanted Yost to manage a major league team.

 

 

You're the only one making the leap. I've stated more than once my reasoning for pointing that out was that Simmons had wanted Yost before, and that Simmons is considered a great baseball mind. That is the only connection I made, you keep pointing out about how that doesn't translate to him wanting him as a manager... and I agree... thats why I stated coach. My point is that a great baseball mind (Simmons) wanted Yost as a coach, meaning he thought highly of him as a baseball person.

[Fatter than Joey]

If people want to get mad they shouldn't just be upset with Ned.

 

Agreed 100%, and I think on this board you see a lot of criticism of players -- Doug Melvin gets a lot of free passes though -- however I think

that there is an element of what people expect as well, if you have a bullpen and a manager -- changing the manager is the more likely

and easier scenario. I think people want change, and in the back of their heads it is more likely going to come at the manager

than at guys that are signed to contracts.

 

My point is that a great baseball mind (Simmons) wanted Yost as a coach, meaning he thought highly of him as a baseball person.

 

Well -- I still think you are making a leap here. For all we know Ted wanted Ned to teach catching in single A. I think that Ned is perhaps

a good organizational soldier and does what he is told. Just because you hire someone in your organization means you think highly of him

-- I just don't think that should be assumed. I have no doubt there is mutual respect.

[Thurston Fluff]

however I think

that there is an element of what people expect as well, if you have a bullpen and a manager -- changing the manager is the more likely

and easier scenario. I think people want change, and in the back of their heads it is more likely going to come at the manager

than at guys that are signed to contracts.

 

I think most of us want our problems actually fixed. It doesn't help much to change the lightbulb when the power is out. Easy doesn't mean improved. Fans first reaction is anturally to look at the easy answer but as they let things absorb and look at the evidence they tend to want what's right vs what's easy.

That's why I'm so onboard with Simmons. It's something aimed at fixing a weakness. Not to mention it's a good sign that perhaps Yost is willing to admit his faults and improve on them.

[areacodes]

Well -- I still think you are making a leap here. For all we know Ted wanted Ned to teach catching in single A. I think that Ned is perhaps a good organizational soldier and does what he is told. Just because you hire someone in your organization means you think highly of him -- I just don't think that should be assumed. I have no doubt there is mutual respect.

 

 

That is a good point, I too was making a reach in my assumption. However, I'd be willing to put those two pieces together (him wanting him as a coach before and now taking the job as his bench coach) to mean he also thinks highly of him as a baseball person.

[TooLiveBrew]

Secondly, I went through every news item regarding Ned Yost I could find this year -- at the end of the year the general consensus was that Ned Yost was lucky to keep his job going into 2008 -- This includes papers in GB and Madison, saber/stat sites, ESPN writers, NL Central writers. The only place I found consistent support for Yost was the Milwaukee writers.

Exactly, FTJ.

 

JayZahn, you've been very vocally anti-anti-Yost since roughly post #1. Do you see anyone telling you you're a moron? Try to keep the discussion above the belt, please. The anti-Yost crowd with whom you can have a civilized conversation (of which I'm aware) stays away from stuff like that, as does the pro-Yost crowd with whom you can seriously chat.

[Jay Zahn]

TooLiveBrew[/b]]Secondly, I went through every news item regarding Ned Yost I could find this year -- at the end of the year the general consensus was that Ned Yost was lucky to keep his job going into 2008 -- This includes papers in GB and Madison, saber/stat sites, ESPN writers, NL Central writers. The only place I found consistent support for Yost was the Milwaukee writers.

Exactly, FTJ.

 

JayZahn, you've been very vocally anti-anti-Yost since roughly post #1. Do you see anyone telling you you're a moron? Try to keep the discussion above the belt, please. The anti-Yost crowd with whom you can have a civilized conversation (of which I'm aware) stays away from stuff like that, as does the pro-Yost crowd with whom you can seriously chat.

I'll try to avoid that, sure. I do appreciate the more nuanced and substantive discussion on both sides that's been taking place lately.

 

As far as the media is concerned, I live in Madison and Vic Feuerherd (granted he's ex-Milwaukee, so maybe that disqualifies him) described the bullpen as "sagg(ing) from starter strain, ineffectiveness and occasional mismanagement." The rest of the article mentions the strengths and weaknesses of the season in a way similar to I guess what I think I did. It seems that only on the message boards is Yost's presence issue #1.

 

Some of the fans whose #1 goal for 2008 seems to be the firing of Yost cause me a little pain. I'll try to keep things in perspective and be as understanding as I can be.