Ted Simmons new bench coach!

[trwi7]

Is there audio of that interview anywhere?

 

They'll probably put it up on their website later. I'll post the link when they do.

[homer]

Well now I like the hiring. The only question is if Ned will put ego aside and listen to Ted. Nedly and Tedly together again.

[cooprules]

Here's an article from a Boston paper in '05. Thanks to SOSH.

 

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2005/05/15/hes_safefor_now/

[Mass Haas]

Audio Conference Call in the Sounds and Sights section of the Brewers' Home Page

[Tbadder]

I've always had this impression of Dale. Great teacher, lousy decision maker. In practice, with guys one on one, he seems confident, patient, knowledgeable, but in the heat of the moment he tends toward mistakes. Now I've got nothing to base this on except hearing him talk and hearing players talk about him, but it's rooted strongly in my imagination. Anyone else have the same impression?

[Fatter than Joey]

Good quote from the SOSH article

 

Another questioned whether Sveum, who once played for New York, might have mixed loyalties: "Is Dale Sveum an embedded Yankee saboteur, or is he an idiot?" Sportscaster Sean McDonough spent 17 seasons calling Red Sox games, a period in which the team had some notorious third-base coaches. (Remember Wendell Kim and Rene Lachemann?) Even by those standards, McDonough was alarmed: "I thought Sveum was as bad as I've seen."

[homer]

Again, this is all stuff from before he was Brewers 3B coach. Was he good or bad for the Brewers in '06?

[Fatter than Joey]

Again, this is all stuff from before he was Brewers 3B coach. Was he good or bad for the Brewers in '06?

 

Well it was narrowed down to one of 2 things -- a Yankee saboteur or an idiot.

 

Given that the Brewers are in the NL -- I suppose that means he is an idiot, unless he thinks the Brewers are still in the AL -- then it gets pretty murky.

[homer]

Listening to the press conference makes me believe more and more in this hire. He mentioned a lot of the young GMs that he's learned from like Epstein, DePodesta.

 

Ted specifically mentioned some statistics like pitches per plate appearance and OPS.

[splitterpfj]

Ted specifically mentioned some statistics like pitches per plate appearance and OPS.

 

I'm not surprised, that's what he was all about as a player, work the count, waste pitches, hit the mistake.

[Fatter than Joey]

Listening to the press conference makes me believe more and more in this hire. He mentioned a lot of the young GMs that he's learned from like Epstein, DePodesta. Ted specifically mentioned some statistics like pitches per plate appearance and OPS.

 

Yeah -- well -- there remains a bottle-neck, Ned Yost.

 

I like the fact he hasn't mentioned "Greg Aquino fields his position better" and hasn't suggested that the dugout needs a couch for its next manager.

 

Fire Ned Yost

[Thurston Fluff]

Again, this is all stuff from before he was Brewers 3B coach. Was he good or bad for the Brewers in '06?

 

Well it was narrowed down to one of 2 things -- a Yankee saboteur or an idiot.

 

Given that the Brewers are in the NL -- I suppose that means he is an idiot, unless he thinks the Brewers are still in the AL -- then it gets pretty murky.

Actually three things. It could also be exageration from a sports caster in reaction to a bad day. Considering the context of the of the quote you provided I suspect that third.

 

I'd look closer at these two quotes for a better idea of our analysis of him.

 

"You have to laugh at it," Sveum says. "But you're still critiquing yourself, [thinking] could I have done something different there?" While fans and the press called for his head, the players were supportive, he says.

Like all coaches, Sveum insists that if he never had anyone thrown out, he wouldn't be taking enough risks. Players would resent him for limiting their RBIs, and the team would lose games. "People need to remember that getting a base hit with two outs is the single hardest thing to do in sports," he says.

 

This looks to me to be at least some indication of his thought process. I tend to agree. Take a chance waiting for things to happen in sports is not the best way to get what you want.

 

Are Dale Sveum's decisions really any better or worse than those of other third-base coaches, and can he improve? While fans offer opinions on the first point, there's no way to know for sure - statisticians don't track the percentage of a team's base runners thrown out. "It's an oversight," says Bill James, baseball's statistical guru whom the Sox hired to crunch numbers for them.

 

This to me looks like one of those areas fans love because there is no way to know the correct answer. There is no way as a fan to be wrong. These postions tend to be the most heavily critisized. After a certain point the same chirpings get ingrained as abvious truths. For example the critisizm Yost got for overworking his relief staff. The staff was middle of the road in both innings and appearnances with no reliever in the top 15 of either category yet it was accepted as obvious. Probably because it got repeated often enough that it got accepted as such. I suspect Sveum may have suffered from something similar. Is he good? I have no idea. But then neither does any fan.

[areacodes]

to be fair -- this was probably a minor league opportunity for Ned, or he was hoping to get Ned a job with one of his division rivals.

 

 

He still wanted him as a coach. Just because it might have been as a Minor League guy or not doesn't disprove that before Yost was a Brewer Simmons (who everybody is calling a great baseball mind) wanted Yost as a coach.

 

 

No -- I think people go jaded by his sub .500 performance after that start over +120 games -- a good number of people including myself thought he should have been fired at the end of 2006.

 

 

While that may be true, I truely don't remember much about the discussion of his status before 2006, you glossed over my last point. If we hadn't been so streaky, or even had our streaks at a different time of the year, the general opinion of Yost would be different. I didn't mean to make it look as if everybody was holding the same viewpoint. I just don't understand how most seem to view it as only Ned's fault. I know you've been critical of Melvin as well (even suggesting, I believe, that if Ned has to go Melvin might be right behind him... or something along those lines) but I've read a lot about how it's Ned's fault while the players and GM seem to get a free pass.

 

 

I don't believe this -- it is hard for any of us to prove/disprove this -- but I think he carped his pants this year and lost his team.

It is my opinion that guys like JJ Hardy moved him way down on the Xmas card list, after Yost's shenanigans in 2007.

 

 

This is where we have to agree to disagree, as you say there is no way to really prove it, but as whizkid said, with the actions of Melvin and Mark and the way they talk about Yost I don't think this is his problem.

[Fatter than Joey]

He still wanted him as a coach.

 

Sure -- We have to distinguish though between a minor league coach and a manager.

 

While that may be true, I truely don't remember much about the discussion of his status before 2006

 

I was in the vast minority at the time, and I was still observing meekness and humility at that time as well.

 

If we hadn't been so streaky, or even had our streaks at a different time of the year, the general opinion of Yost would be different.

 

I really doubt this -- I think the distribution of W/Ls in 2007 has little to do with the stance of either the pro or anti Yost crowd. The only person

I hear talk about this is Ned.

 

I know you've been critical of Melvin as well (even suggesting, I believe, that if Ned has to go Melvin might be right behind him... or something along those lines) but I've read a lot about how it's Ned's fault while the players and GM seem to get a free pass.

 

Yeah Melvin's on my carp list as well. I no longer hold Ned Yost exclusively responsible for everything that is wrong with my universe.

 

but as whizkid said, with the actions of Melvin and Mark and the way they talk about Yost I don't think this is his problem.

 

Where I disagree with Whizkid -- is that I think DM has a vested interest in sticking with his hires/acquisitions, and I think he stubbornly stands by them -- so I take DM's actions/words with a grain of salt a lot.

[dadofandrew]

The funny thing about Boston is, they've always had several big power bats, and they usually do not run well. If you get guys thrown out at home, regardless of it being a good decision, the casuals will turn on you quick. Anyone can tell you about being at a game and having the 3B coach hold up the runner correctly, and then the OF bobbles it, or makes a wide throw, and AFTER the fact, the fans start to boo.

 

It's easy to make the proper decision afterwards. No one was ever critical of a Yost move after a 1-2-3 inning. Let's not forget, in the game where everyone complained about wise being brought in, Spurling pitched well. There's nothing that proves an uninformed fan quicker than waiting until the game is decided to decide what is right or wrong. Sveum did fine in '06, and many had quotes from Boston (who, by the way, won a title with Dale as a 3B coach) saying how bad he was.

 

What's really funny is, despite a quiet year for MIL in '06, the rumors are suddenly being accepted as fact again. Talk about making something of nothing.

[whizkid]

I think DM has a vested interest in sticking with his hires/acquisitions, and I think he stubbornly stands by them -- so I take DM's actions/words with a grain of salt a lot.

 

I think Doug's vested interest is producing a winning team thus keeping his job. Not sure how keeping a manager that he thinks is deficient in all aspects of managing helps him in that regard. Basically you're suggesting he thinks he can somehow fool Mark and keep his job by not drawing attention to mistakes you feel he's made in hiring.

[RoseBowlMtg]

mass hass thanks so much for the link to the press conference. Anyone want to know about the man it's a must hear.

 

Great insight!

[And That]

No one was ever critical of a Yost move after a 1-2-3 inning.

That's not true.

 

[areacodes]

Sure -- We have to distinguish though between a minor league coach and a manager.

 

 

All I said was that Simmons wanted Yost as a coach before Yost was a manager of the Brewers. I don't see any need to make a distinction between the two, especially since we don't know what position it might have been. My point was that Simmons, who a lot of people seem to think is a really smart baseball guy, wanted Yost, who many people think isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. It seems there are a lot of well respected baseball people who think highly of Ned, I'll defer to the people who are closer to the game.

 

 

Where I disagree with Whizkid -- is that I think DM has a vested interest in sticking with his hires/acquisitions, and I think he stubbornly stands by them -- so I take DM's actions/words with a grain of salt a lot.

 

 

If that is how Doug is running this franchise than I don't want him as our GM.

[Fatter than Joey]

Basically you're suggesting he thinks he can somehow fool Mark and keep his job by not drawing attention to mistakes you feel he's made in hiring.

 

Something like that -- I always felt like he made the same mistake with Oates in TX. It's easier to fire someone else's hires.

 

My point was that Simmons, who a lot of people seem to think is a really smart baseball guy, wanted Yost, who many people think isn't the sharpest tool in the shed

 

Well -- Simmons was running STL's minor leagues, so it is pretty fair to guess that he wanted Ned to work in the minors. Ned may be desirable to be a minor league coach -- it's a whole different universe.

 

No one was ever critical of a Yost move after a 1-2-3 inning.

 

You must be new here.

 

There's nothing that proves an uninformed fan quicker than waiting until the game is decided to decide what is right or wrong

 

Just because people are griping at the end of the game doesn't mean that they weren't doing so during the game.

 

Sveum did fine in '06, and many had quotes from Boston

 

In all fairness those guys at SOSH are very quotable.

[TooLiveBrew]

"...this centered around Ned. We go back, you know - waaay far. And, um, this is the kind of job that I believe has to center around trust, and one's willingness to aid and abet a system. And I fully expect to assume that latter role."

 

*gulp*

 

Lotta "admiration" in this conference call. I worry about this being an ol' boys' club. In any event, he is indeed well-spoken (as the Emperor has forseen). I hope when he doesn't agree with the gameplan (no matter who you have on a coaching staff, they will not literally agree every single time), he will speak up - and be taken seriously.

 

EDIT: The quote is from Ted Simmons, per the Brewers' website conference call.

[bork]

So how many former GMs are with the Brewers now? Is it 4 or 5?

[Jay Zahn]

The Yost criticism on this board has become moronic. Nobody in the baseball world or in the general media has such contempt for Yost. Just people posting on Internet message boards.

 

Among the good things about the 2007 Brewers, the flaws on this team are going to be seen as lack of OBP, weak defense, starting pitching that faltered late in games, and a weak bullpen. The work of Ned Yost is not going to be high on the list. Get over it.

 

Ned Yost made strategic mistakes in game situations. It happens. ALL MANAGERS make strategic mistakes in game situations. ALL OF THEM. Get over it. Honestly, look at the four managers left in the LCS. Francona, Wedge, Hurdle, Melvin. Strategic geniuses? Really? How about Joe Torre - oh the moves he makes. It doesn't matter. This is not some war where the genius general is going to run circles around everybody with a motley crew. Baseball simply isn't like that. About one manager in a hundred, maybe, can do anything innovative strategically. And Earl Weaver won ONE World Title. Granted, that's one more than Yost. It's the same number as Ozzie Guillen or Bob Brenly or Hank Bauer or Joe Altobelli. Or Whitey Herzog. One.

 

Most important strategic decision of the manager is filling out the lineup card. Everything else is a distant second. If Yost wants to give Counsell 600 PAs, you can talk to me.

 

The there's the supposed bullpen mismanagement. Well, I looked at the stats. Brewers starters were in the middle of the pack in innnings pitched, and were the middle of the pack in ERA. Usually the teams with lower ERAs from their starters got a few more innings pitched from them. The teams with worse starters got fewer IPs. Nothing unusual there.

 

Something else about the starters. As I posted elsewhere, the starters had the best OPS in the National League in pitches 51-75. In pitches 76-100 they had the worst by a large margin. So they fell apart regularly to an unprecedented extent. And if Yost was responsible, you'd think it would have been a trend in prior years - but it wasn't. But it didn't make Yost look very good. Time after time Bush or Capuano or Suppan would get a lead and sail through the fifth, then fall completely apart and suddenly a 4-0 game is 4-3. That played a big part in all of the lost leads, and again explain to me how Yost is responsible.

 

Back to the bullpen. I'll admit Villanueva was overused for a time. Then again, he bounced back fairly quickly, whereas the less overused Turnbow and Wise didn't. Turnbow simply was not overused by major league standards. Plenty of relievers could handle the load he was given, and even so even his first half performance simply wasn't that great. As for Wise, Yost may as well have burned his arm to a crisp (not that he did) since he was useless after July anyway for reasons not to do with his arm. Why save him.

 

But let's take the thesis that all of those guys were somehow overused. Where do the innings that you're going to take away from Turnbow, Wise, and Villanueva go. What other relief pitcher did the Brewers have that showed any sort of consistent ability. The starters were not capable of taking any more innings than they already did. The innings have nowhere good to go.

 

You want concerns for this team? I'm concerned that Braun isn't going to advance his defense enough. I'm concerned that Capuano won't bounce back. I'm very concerned about a team that can't add a single bullpen arm out of its minor league system for years running (except for Villanueva, who's ticketed for the rotation anyway.) Despite the potential upside, this team has concerns aplenty to worry about. Yost I'm not concerned about. He's neither good nor bad and isn't a roadblock to the team's future. Obviously if the problems aren't solved the ax will fall on management someday anyway. But swinging the ax often doesn't solve the long term problems (see Grammas for Crandall or Lachemann for Kuenn or Lopes for Garner.)

 

Anyway, to tie this to Simmons, I'm for it - I think he's a good add. The players still need to play.

[sbrylski]

I've usually stayed out of the Yost arguments because I know I'll just end up exhasted. Jay Zahn just did some dirty work for me. Agree 100%.

[Fatter than Joey]

The Yost criticism on this board has become moronic.

 

In all fairness, the same could be said about his support as well. At the end of the day, this is a Brewer fansite -- some players receive way to much

credit -- some receive way to much criticism, objectivity is never going to be a strength of this site, -- and I am not sure it should be.

 

Nobody in the baseball world or in the general media has such contempt for Yost. Just people posting on Internet message boards.

 

First, let's not confuse the general media's apathy towards the Brewers as a level-headed evaluation of Ned Yost.

 

Secondly, I went through every news item regarding Ned Yost I could find this year -- at the end of the year the general consensus was that Ned Yost was

lucky to keep his job going into 2008 -- This includes papers in GB and Madison, saber/stat sites, ESPN writers, NL Central writers. The only place I found

consistent support for Yost was the Milwaukee writers.

 

Ned Yost made strategic mistakes in game situations. It happens. ALL MANAGERS make strategic mistakes in game situations. ALL OF THEM.

 

I have never understood this argument regarding managers--

 

No player has been successful in reaching base 50% of the time over the course of their career.

Even the greatest MLB hitters were a 50%+ proposition of failing. Of course though Ted Williams failed much less than Chad Moeller.

 

And Earl Weaver won ONE World Title. Granted, that's one more than Yost.

 

A lot of us realize that winning a WS is a bit of a crapshoot. Weaver has a .583 career winning percentage in his first tenure with the O's-- and had his teams finishing in at least 2nd place 13 of 16 years.

 

Certainly I wouldn't want to compare the 1970s O's to the 2003 Brewers -- but something has to be said about maintaining a .580+ winning pct over 16 years.

 

Weaver has done a heck of a lot more than Yost besides winning a WS.

 

Most important strategic decision of the manager is filling out the lineup card.

 

Maybe, Yost had some head scratchers here as well -- batting Estrada 5th, etc....

 

Plenty of relievers could handle the load he was given, and even so even his first half performance simply wasn't that great.

 

My problem with Yost with regard to Tbow was more about the situations he was placed in, and not recognizing when Tbow was struggling, not so

much workload.

 

But swinging the ax often doesn't solve the long term problems

 

I agree you can't DFA your way to greatness -- but your list doesn't include the transition we made after Grammas with Bamberger. we went from 90+ losses to 90+ wins.

Yost has had enough time to show what he can/can't do.

 

Yost I'm not concerned about. He's neither good nor bad and isn't a roadblock to the team's future.

 

Saying that Yost isn't a roadblock is hardly a ringing endorsement. An advantage can be had by having a good manager -- stats bear this out. Even if the impact is small, why concede it?

 

I am glad that Simmons is on the staff -- I hope his skills will be condusive to coaching.