Should the NL add the DH?

[JJHardy7]

I like how the leagues are different. I do think it gives the AL the advantage in the World Series, but it also gives the NL an advantage. The Bo Sox had to sit Ortiz or Youk and the Rockies are put together to have their best players available to play...or that is the hope in the NL at least.

 

It's the one sport where leagues/conferences have different rules and I think that's unique. I'm not saying it's fun to watch a pitcher bat compared to a professional hitter, but it's unique and I guess you could say it at least makes the games go quicker in the NL than the AL.

[BrewCrewRising]

Besides - it's harder for an idiot manager to screw up, that's especially relevant as a Brewers fan.

 

Yeah -- Ultimately though -- I have always felt that there is more overall strategy when you don't have automatic outs in your lineup.

 

I don't understand your reasoning.

 

It seems to me that if you DO have automatic outs in your lineup, you have employ strategy regarding when to pull a pitcher based on whether the AB at hand is more important then keeping the pitcher in. Whereas with the DH you set your lineup and let it go. You put relief pitchers in and only worry about pulling them when they seem to be losing their stuff or encounter an unfavorable matchup.

 

Also, some pitchers can actually hit, and some are least fairly good situational hitters. So it's not like each team always has one automatic out they have to deal with.

 

So, I am genuinely curious as to where you see more strategy with the DH.

[homer]

I like watching pitchers hit for the simple fact that when they do get on base its kind of exciting. Like an extra point in football - guys make 98% of them but when they miss it usually looms large.

[bigredrobbo]

I hate the DH - I'd scrap it in a heartbeat.

 

For all those that love it, why not just have a defensive 8 consisting of players like Omar Vizquel, Mentkiewicz and Adam Everett and 9 mashers when it comes for them to bat. It'd be great - fabulous defense and a gazillion homers. Think of how much fun the game would be!

[TooLiveBrew]

My preference would be to do away with the DH. However, as mentioned, that ain't happenin'. So the next option is to add it in the NL. No thanks - I like the strategic differences, and the value that a P that can hit, etc., brings. While I'd like to see uniformity, I don't want to see it at the expense of making the NL as bland as the AL.

 

If it were adopted, I guess I really wouldn't care too much, but what if there were a sort of reward system for batting your pitcher in lieu of a DH? I don't really know where I'm going with that, but think of it like this - you can DH the P spot, but if you prefer to instead let your P hit (as in, days that YoGa starts), you can PR for him w/o removing him from the game (or burning the PR as a sub) - courtesy runner!

[MBHA]

Absolutely hate the DH. Pitchers can throw at opposing hitters without having to bat themselves. To me the DH has rendered all offensive records amassed by players who have used the position meaningless when compared to non-DH years. How many more HR's would Babe Ruth have hit? What about Mickey Mantle and his bad knees? Do you think Paul Molitor gets 3,000 hits without the benefit of the DH?

Playing in the field does have some effect on batting and possible longevity. Imagine playing LF during a 90 degree sunny afternoon chasing balls down, running into fences, making throws to try and cut down baserunners for 27 outs. Compare that with likely 4 plate appearances and between them retreating to the air conditioned clubhouse to watch replays of your last at bat and then taking swings in the cages.

Vote NO on the DH.

[Tbadder]

Look, the DH is for entertainment value--nothing more. Usually big fat guys who can't field isn't my idea of fun--for that I'll watch All-Star Wrestling. This gotta score runs to be entertaining mentailty just takes away from the balance of the game. Is a game better because the score is 7-6 instead of 4-3? Too many people answer yes to the latter. When there was no DH everyone had to bat, throw, and field--now no more. That's pretty sad. If you can DH pitchers why not DH all bad hitters eventually, so that there's a complete division of labour--pitchers only, fielders only, hitters only. Ridiculous, no logical sense at all. Can you even imagine how dumb it would be to deveolp a young kid as a DH. What an insult and what a disservice to a great game that teaches a wholistic athletic approach.

 

One other slight point. Think about how a game changes when a pitcher can hit. Gallardo is a special weapon--really special and it enhances his value rightfully so.

[GAME05]

I really started to enjoy the Brewers more when we made the switch to the NL. it seems like there are so many more decisions for a manager to make in the NL, that managing an NL team is so much more intricate.

 

it's a real small part of it, but part of why I like seeing pitchers up there is they're the everyman when it comes to hitting and not the experienced, professional batter. I feel like I could hit as well as Sheets against ML pitching. The rare time he loops one into right field, that's a little victory for me.

[joepepsi]

I like the DH fine, and have favored the AL style baseball most of my life. Since the Brewers moved to the NL, I've become a fan of that league as well. I have no problem with each league having separate DH/non DH rules. First of all, it's important to realize that the NL already employs the DH. Only they call it a Pinch Hitter. You hardly ever see a pitcher hit more than 3 times a game, so the NL is using the DH at least 40% of the time.

 

As far as the idea that the DH benefit the AL in the World Series because they can carry David Ortiz, well, I see that as more of a roster management issue. As long as the NL continues to favor Craig Counsell types over David Ortiz types it will continue to be the inferior league. Too many NL teams waste that no. 8 spot in the order with a light hitting catcher or middle infielder. The Brewers started 2007 with 4 defensive minded players on the bench, Miller, Counsell, Graffy, and Gwynn, and only one good offensive player, Gross. Gross almost never played. That strategy in the AL would get you killed!

 

Because of superior roster construction, the Angels, Red Sox, and Indians would have won any division in NL too, even without the benefit of the DH.

[GAME05]

I guess I don't totally agree with that. The DH position has allowed certain players to get big, fat and strong and specialize in hitting. So out of that position develops players like Ortiz and Cecil Fielder. But bench players in the NL, since they HAVE to be able to play a position, are forced to stay relatively thin. it's that defensive necessity that negates at least some amount of hitting ability.

 

That the Brewers carry Councell and Gwynn et. al as bench/pinch hitters, though they're not awesome offensive players by any means, is just a funcion of the league they play in and not any strategic lapse by Milwaukee or any other NL team.

 

And if anything, Milwaukee does that, carries the good hitting/bad defensive players. Braun would have been a DH this past year, we're only forced to put him at 3b so he can play every day.

[danzig6767]

I'm so glad the Brewers are out of the AL,i can't remember the last time i watched an AL game that wasn't the playoffs.IMO if a team wants to have a Jack Cust,Travis Hafner,or David Ortiz,have them put on a glove and play baseball.

 

So long as they keep the DH out of the NL,i don't really care if the AL keeps it.I don't see any huge advantage in the World Series for either side so if the AL wants to keep it,more power to them,it's not like i'll be watching.

[clancyphile]

Get the DH. It means you have Prince at DH, LaPorta at first, and no excuse to NOT lock Prince up for ten to twelve years.

[logan82]

I like that there are two different sets of rules within the same game. It makes baseball unique. How many other sports have 2 sets of rules depending on which league you play in. In baseball it actually matters where you play.

[jaybird2001wi]

Here is a fast fact... when the DH was added to the AL in 1973, the Brewers first ever DH was Ollie Brown.

The American League bores me a little bit because of the DH. No strategy and if a player can only hit, but not field, he is not a baseball player... he is just a hitter.

[joepepsi]

If that's true then it's also true that a pitcher who doesn't hit is not a baseball player, he is a pitcher.

 

And a defensive specialist who's an automatic out is not a baseball player, he's a defensive specialist.

[Fatter than Joey]

So, I am genuinely curious as to where you see more strategy with the DH.

 

Well generally speaking -- the "NL strategy" doesn't come into play until the late innings, seventh through 9th.

In today's game you are going to see 3 types of relievers -- the LOOGY, ROOGY, setup and closer.

 

A lot of pitchers get removed because of matchups, or are only going to be allowed to pitch one IP-- this happens in both leagues --

 

Ray King comes in, to face a guy, and then gets the hook because a RHer comes up (if Yost isn't managing). Specialists do not get removed because their spot in the lineup has come up, they get the hook because of matchups -- Generally speaking setup guys/closers are going to only pitch one inning, so they are going to get the hook,

after getting an inning pitched regardless of where their spot in the lineup is. If a home team is leading in the 7th -- they bring in setup guys and

do a double-switch and that spot in the lineup is not even likely to come up. I just don't see the double-switch as some wonderful crazy strategy.

At some point managers in the NL run out of pitchers and batters, so you get stuck with pitchers batting in extra inning games (often)

 

Now on the other hand....

 

So basically in innings 1 through 6, you have automatic outs, and guys like Craig Counsell getting IBBs because they are batting 8th -- I just fail to see it as

interesting baseball -- Making a pitcher deal with a David Ortiz/Edgar Martinez/Paul Molitor/ -- and moving Craig Counsell to the 9th spot, means there are

more interesting pitcher/batter matchups -- and that is the strategy I find interesting -- Pitcher v. Batter rather than Manager v. Manager. I would rather watch

a top flight pitcher like Jake Peavey square off against David Ortiz 3 times than seeing a double switch in the 7th inning.

 

That said -- I have no interest that the DH comes to the NL, and I have no interest in the AL losing the DH. I certainly understand that this is my preference,

and different strokes for different folks...

 

No strategy and if a player can only hit, but not field, he is not a baseball player... he is just a hitter.

 

I disagree -- with the strategy part -- but I have found the other part of this argument a bit flimsy -- There are plenty of relief pitchers in the NL -- who will never see the plate -- likewise there are a lot of pinch hitters that have ended their careers (Thad Bosley, Rusty Staub, Manny Mota) going up to the plate in the NL pinch-hitting for a pitcher and returning to the bench -- In 1983 Rusty Staub batted in 104 games but only took the field in 10.

[joepepsi]

I just don't see the double-switch as some wonderful crazy strategy.

It isn't, but anti DH fans consider the double switch akin to rocket science.

 

Great post Joey! Your examples of AL strategy and the excitement of a great pitcher facing a great batter are wonderful. Nearly every NL game features a scenario similar to this: the 6 hole hitter leads off an inning with a double. 7 hitter gets a walk. 8 hitter hits into double play. Pitcher strikes out. Any NL inning where the bottom 4 of the lineup leads off is any inning where rallies fail. As you point out, there is much more strategy to working your way around a tough lineup than pitching around good hitters because the bottom 2 in the lineup are automatic outs.

 

I like the DH in the AL and no DH in the NL.

[logan82]

I don't know why people want the DH in the NL to help Yost since the biggest criticism of Yost is handling the pitching staff. Sounds like another reason to get in a slam of Yost to me.