Has CoCo reached the end of the line?

[laserbomb]

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It is just very frustrating to think that we are two blown saves away from being 4.5 games up right now. Oh well.

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Are we also about 50 runs scored from being up 8 games or more?

 

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Enjoy the ride I guess.

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This part I agree with.

[bigredrobbo]

I loves me some Brewerfan.net knee-jerkiness...

[mikerollins]

I have no problems with Cordero. He's one of the best closers in the league who has just hit a bit of a rough spell.

 

The team is 10 games over .500 and in first place. I wouldn't make any drastic changes at all (with the lineup, or the closer).

 

You can't be short-sighted and just look at the last few outings.

[danzig6767]

has anyone else noticed that his slider is absolutely terrible. if he can get it to be a strike its just crushed, otherwise its just thrown in the dirt. now if your a hitter i'm pretty sure your going to sit and wait for a fastball.

 

Actually,that's rarely the case

 

As i posted in the vent thread,i've noticed a trend in nearly everytime he gives up runs,it's almost always on the slider.He throws 94-97 and even with that,he seems almost afraid to use his fastball alot regardless if he's showing no command of the slider.

 

He usually gets ahead of batters and it's with fastballs,how often do you see hitters drive his fastballs?Then he gets 2 strikes on a guy and it's one slider after another even if he's hanging them or throwing them in the dirt.

 

Every once in awhile he'll throw a suprise 2 strike fastball,but it's fairly rare.I was yelling at the TV to Pujols/Rolen,please throw your fastball when he had two strikes,Cordero hadn't thrown a good slider all inning.He just seems scared to do it even throw his fastball rarely gets hit hard,but hanging sliders kill him all the time.

[nikegolf6]

I realize that there is never an ideal time to blow a save, but it would hurt a little less if he blew one that made the difference between a 8-2 or 7-3 home stand.

 

In fans heads it would, but it wouldnt change their overall record at all

[markedman5]

So if all closers blow games then why are we 1-42 when trailing after 8? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Bert55]

You know what it is?

 

 

All Star Jinx

 

Cappy....crap second half last year

Turnbow....The same

 

This year

Hardy.....slump

Sheets...Disable list

CoCo....multiple blown saves

Fielder....Not hitting like he did before, but still doing well. Home runs have dropped off.

[nikegolf6]

Pappelbon has blown 1, Putz 1, Wagner 1, Hoffman 2. Even Al Reyes has only blown 1, Dempster 2, Gregg 1 etc

 

Here's my point about closers:

Papelbon -- Starting pitcher thrust into the closer role, becomes a top closer

Putz -- mediocre until last year when he developed his splitter and became elite

Wagner -- 347 career saves, a great closer

Hoffman -- 500 career saves

Al Reyes -- journeyman relief pitcher coming off TJ surgery, somehow meets your bizarre criteria of successful closers

Dempster -- same (failed starter turned closer)

Gregg -- middle relief outcast from anaheim, now successful closer in florida

 

Also think Joe Nathan, Jason Isringhausen, and for that matter Derrick Turnbow 2005. Closers come out of nowhere. Being a "great" closer is all about opportunity. Fans drastically overrate the importance of having a great closer. The truth is, most good RP should be able to come in with a 3 run lead and end the game. Obviously there are some great closers in this list above, but what if Joe Nathan never got a chance to close because Minnesota committed 50 million to someone like John Franco, or some other established closer?

[Weirdos19]

I think it has everything to do with his return to Texas. He was perfect until they put him in that game there. Since then, he's been pretty bad.

 

Could they have T-Bow close on the road only? Sounds stupid, but the numbers don't lie.

[markedman5]

"Al Reyes -- journeyman relief pitcher coming off TJ surgery, somehow meets your bizarre criteria of successful closers"

 

As far as this year goes you bet he meets my criteria.

 

I'm not saying he has been a great pitcher .......but he is getting the job done this year.

 

 

17/18 in save opportunities.

 

I'm not sure we aren't on the same side in this.

 

I agree that most decent relief pitchers should be able to get the job done which makes it all the more frustrating that we have blown 6 or 7 games in the 9th this year. 5 by CC and at least 1 by Turnbow.

 

We are 5 games below .500 when the game is decided by the closers this year.

 

When you are 20 games below .500 nobody cares about such things but when you are trying to win the division for the first time in 25 years it tends to get a little more attention.

[crewcrazy]

CoCo's had the most save chances of anyone in the Majors, if I remember correctly...that's more chances to blow a save. I'd say it's harder to blow only 1 save when you've gotten 35 chances, compared to 18.

 

Even though he's blown 5 saves, Cordero is a very good closer that gets the job done more often than not (it's not like the guy is Armando Benitez or Jorge Julio out there). With that said, this is probably a good example of why it wouldn't be smart for the Brewers to throw a bunch of money at Cordero -- the difference between the good closers and the average ones is so small, it's not worth the extra cash. I wouldn't be surprised if the Brewers let everyone in the bullpen duke it out in Spring Training next year for the closer's role.

[nikegolf6]

I think it has everything to do with his return to Texas. He was perfect until they put him in that game there. Since then, he's been pretty bad.

 

Really? Or maybe he was pitching OUT OF HIS MIND. His ERA was 3 full runs lower than his career ERA. You didn't think a regression was coming?

[thablingster]

I had a lot of time to think about this at work after I found out we lost after being up 6-0 http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/mad.gif .

 

I agree with the comments Cordero is just regressing to the mean of the 3.30 ERA pitcher he's been throughout his career. It's too bad this year couldn't be his outlier year. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

 

Cordero is what he is, ultimately he will be fine. Everything this team does right now is magnified because the Cubs have forgotten how to lose. Hopefully at some point they will regress to the mean too.

[Nader Raider Tim]

Yes, Fransisco Cordero is a very good closer. He has a track record of having a low-to-mid 3's era. He probably will again this year.

 

On the other hand it would apear he is struggling on the road, which may admitedly be a statistical abberation. At home he is 21 for 21 in save opportunitites. On the road he is 11 for 16.

 

Why not give Turnbow or Linebrink the occasional road Save opportunity?

[adambr2]

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So if all closers blow games then why are we 1-42 when trailing after 8? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

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That's a pretty good point. Some of us through out the textbook excuses. If we blow a save, "All closers blow saves". If we don't rally from behind in the 9th ever, it's "It's tough to rally against the other team's best bullpen pitcher".

 

Well, which is it? If all closers blow saves, why can't we ever be the ones to blow the saves for them?

 

This team has the talent and should be better than their record indicates. It would be an utter failure to see them fall short of the playoffs this season.

[endaround]

Coco isn't blowing saves. He's blowing games that should be in the bag. Sure you'll blow 1 run games. He's given up three runs.

 

This pretty much shows Cordero's achievement yesterday:

http://www.fangraphs.com/tgraphs/20070728_Brewers_Cardinals_1.png

 

Basically a closer should blow maybe one of these a season. Cordero has three in the last month.