Has CoCo reached the end of the line?

[kmcasper23]

That is 3 straight innings of getting roughed up in the closers role! His stuff is just not there anymore. His slider is either in the dirt or hanging down the middle of the plate. His fastball is way to hittable when hitters are sitting dead red waiting for it. Could we see Turnbow reclaim the role or Linebrink in the role soon? Afterall, Ned said we are in a pennant race and how many of these outings can you take. The last two are the difference between a 2 1/2 game lead and a 4 1/2 lead!

[MadisonBrewerBlue]

he should be on a very very very short leash... in fact i would give turnbow the oppurtunity to close right now.

[princeginterhallhelms04]

Well at least with that linebrink trade we have options now. I can't believe that i am actually starting to think this team would be better having turnbow close it out. Either way CoCo should be on a short leash. What does everyone think of Linebrink closing?

[Crew2323]

I agree with the sentiments shared here. As far as Linebrink as the closer...I'd give it to Turnbow first. I would slide Linebrink into Turnbow's role and let Cordero pitch in less pressure filled situations. I don't know what it is with Cordero. I think the problem is that he is very predictable out there. It seems like most of the hitters know he's going to throw his slider, especially with two strikes. His fast ball has velocity, but it is straight as an arrow. Like I said, I think he's too predictable. He has trouble locating his slider, but when he does locate it, it is on a tee.

 

Does anyone recall how many blow saves it was before Turnbow was removed from the closer's role? I'd have to say Cordero is very close to that. Even the games he does save, they are close calls. Cordero had an impressive showing vs. Arizona last week I believe, but that's been the exception in the last month or two.

 

Maybe they should have Turnbow close on the road and Cordero close at home. It sounds silly, but it wouldn't bother me one bit. In any event I think it's time to sift through the options in the pen. I don't know about anyone else, but whenever Cordero comes into a game to close it out, I have very little confidence in him. A couple days ago in the paper he talked about having a sense of urgency. It's definitely time that he finds that sense himself and stops blowing saves.

[TCSM]

has anyone else noticed that his slider is absolutely terrible. if he can get it to be a strike its just crushed, otherwise its just thrown in the dirt. now if your a hitter i'm pretty sure your going to sit and wait for a fastball.

[TCSM]

something i've noticed is everytime a rookie is trying to get his first win and/or first couple coco is there to ruin it.

[jazzytrav]

I've always found the closer's role unique, and here's why:

 

1. It seems to have so much to do with confidence. We saw that with Turnbow last year. We've seen that with Lidge. One confidence blow and the next few games (or years, shudder) could shaky until that comes back.

 

2. During 7 innings by a good starting pitcher, they are going to make numerous bad, very hittable pitches. Sometimes they will get lucky, sometimes they won't. If you translate that into a closer's role, they may still make 1 or 2 bad pitches in what would otherwise be a good outing. The problem is that there is so little room for error because often a decent pitch will be hit between the infielders (as in today's walkoff hit), then it will be followed by a bad pitch and suddenly the game is out of hand.

 

To me, it seems ridiculous to base a player's ability on a bad stretch of games, especially a closer for the reasons stated above. Mariano Rivera has had bad stretches, Trevor Hoffman has had bad stretches, and those are two arguably HOF closers. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing a "closer by committee" until Coco gets his confidence back, with the ultimate goal of having him as the closer come September / October.

 

Keep in mind that about a week ago we were talking about whether or not resign Cordero at the end of the season. A bad week doesn't make a pitcher bad, it makes him human.

[brewmann04]

Ned needs to Makes Changes before to much longer.

[brettac1]

They'll ride it out with Cordero. Heck, a month ago he was hailed at the greatest closer in the league - probably by some of the same people that are now saying he's cooked.

 

jazzytrav has it right, this is a rough stretch and he'll bounce back.

 

They weren't going to re-sign him anyway.

[markedman5]

I was watching the Cubs Reds game last night and they said on the air that the Reds have won 82 games in a row now when leading after 8 innings.

 

 

Obviously they have blown some leads during that stretch(including last night) but it goes to show you that it shouldn't be that hard to close out games like the one today and the one against Cincy.

 

The offense shares some of the blame today as well.

[kmcasper23]

The thing that puzzles me is that when he is on he is probably the most unhittable pitcher I have ever seen. But when he is off he can't get anyone out. He has given up some game winning hits to some very marginal hitters and no closer should do that.

[brewmann04]

however the Brewers are in the first Playoff race within years and They Can"t afford Coco Blowing games.

[brettac1]

He has given up some game winning hits to some very marginal hitters and no closer should do that.

 

They all do, though. Most times, if a guy doesn't have it he doesn't have it. Sometimes Cordero is beatable. Everyone looks for their closer to be Gagne circa 2002-2004, and it's just not possible. That was a once in a lifetime thing. All closers blow games, it happens. It's more coincidence that Cordero's bad games have happened to come on the road, I think.

[splitterpfj]

No, Cordero isn't done, BUT, this is why you should almost never give huge money to a closer. These guys all go through peaks and valleys, the ones like Fingers, Rivera and Hoffman are very rare.

 

Next year, someone else will be closing here, and will likely finish with a similar number of blown saves as Cordero has, wherever he is. The difference will be several million dollars.

[markedman5]

Yes all closers blow games but most of the good ones are blowing far less then Cordero has this year.

 

Pappelbon has blown 1, Putz 1, Wagner 1, Hoffman 2. Even Al Reyes has only blown 1, Dempster 2, Gregg 1 etc.

 

The only closer to have blown more games then Coco's 5 is Chad Cordero with the Nationals who has giving away 7.

 

I understand that CC has had more opportunities but his save percentage is now down to 86 which is about the middle of the pack

 

 

 

So we have an average closer now and with all the close games we play we really need an elite one.

[VegasBrewerFan]

I WOULD BE SHOCKED if the Reds have won 82 games in a row after 8 innings just SHOCKED.

[markedman5]

Me too but thats what they said.

[moofnelson]

Maybe he said they've won 82 games in a row when leading after nine innings.

[markedman5]

I think they may have won a million games in a row when leading after 9 innings....................http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ennder]

Looking at Weathers game log at least they have not lost a single game the past 2 years where he blew the save in the 9th inning. He has blown a few in the 8th where they lost and he's blown a good number in the 9th where they came back to win. Seems like one of those stats that doesn't really mean what it seems to.

[nikegolf6]

I love how CoCo has a career 3.20ish ERA, but he posts a 0.36 ERA for the seasons first two months and people are bewildered when he comes back to earth. I know this game hurts, and it pissed me off too -- but its still just ONE game. I know its a pennant race and we cant give games away blah blah blah, but if Parra gets rocked and we lose 7-2 it doesnt hurt as much as this does it? No, but it counts the same in the standings. This site drives me crazy after a brewer loss. The season is LONG. Part of the problem, is that Cordero is not as good as half of you think he is. He's a good closer, and when he is on he is unhittable. But whoever posted that this is why you don't give BIG money to closers is obviously one of our smarter posters.

[brettac1]

So we have an average closer now and with all the close games we play we really need an elite one.

 

How many are really elite, though? Hoffman, Rivera, Putz, Paps, and Wagner, probably Nathan? Surely you're not implying that Ryan Dempster is - dude blew 9 last year. The fact that Dempster has only blown a couple is probably a good sign for the Brewers, because he'll probably have his week or two stretch where he can't buy an out soon. Even Putz blew 7 last year.

 

For the most part, closers are a dime a dozen. Cordero is better than that and a step below those great 5 or 6.

[Nader Raider Tim]

With relievers I know the sample size is probably to small, but...

 

Fransisco Cordero

 

Home .33 era / .7 whip / .090 baa

 

Road 7.2 era / 1.8 whip / .375 baa

 

All 5 of his BS's are on the road. Those numbers are really staggering and it's not like the era is just inflated due to a few numbers his secondary stats also are scary.

sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6300/gamelog;_ylt=ApEq8.5KHxRkZ2foUdrZwmOFCLcF

 

Looking at his gamelog it seems like every game he pitches in on the road he is giving up hits like mad.

 

Maybe it's time for a closer by commitee, I would feel compfortable with anyone of the Cordero / Turnbow / Linebrin / Villenueva combo pitching in the 9th inning.

[trwi7]

Actually that 7.2 ERA on the road went up to 8.62 after this last BS.

[JenksFan5]

My biggest beef with Cordero is that he is blowing saves when the team really needs a win and has a chance to get some momentum going. He has been great for the most part, but the 2 Texas games, the last Cinci game and this game really were opportunities for the Brewers to right the ship or gain momentum and now all of that seems to be lost.

 

I realize that there is never an ideal time to blow a save, but it would hurt a little less if he blew one that made the difference between a 8-2 or 7-3 home stand. Thgis team struggles on the road for whatever reason and then when they do play well enough to win, Cordero has had some letdowns.

 

It is just very frustrating to think that we are two blown saves away from being 4.5 games up right now. Oh well. Enjoy the ride I guess.