Torre turns down 1 year deal

[AdvantageSchneider]

I must say that I'm rather dumbfounded how the media, and some posters are playing the, This contract offer was an insult, angle.

 

Joe Torre was the highest paid manager in baseball last year, but a country mile. Joe made 7.4 million, Sweet Lou down in chicago made half that at 3.5 mill. Had he accepted the insulting $5 million he would still be the highest paid manager in baseball by only half a country mile, with easily reachable incentives that would get his pay to where is was on average over his last contract.

 

I don't see how it's an insult to put performance bonuses in a contract. Plenty of business contracts in the real world, not just in sports have incentive clauses, I don't see why the manager of a baseball team should be any different.

[TooLiveBrew]

If Torre's contract was up after this season, how can Big Stein even use that kind of threat?

 

This is the same guy that declared a MLB umpire who is retiring from the gig at the end of 2007 will 'never work one of our games again!'

 

To weigh in, read GSP's post, subtract bit where he mentions Mussina & Clemens, and you have my post. http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif Clemens & Moose were nothing more than average pitchers this year. If Clemens returns in 2008 (even for just a part of a season) for anything other than a bullpen role, I'd be shocked. And I can't see Rocket's ego letting him pitch outta the 'pen, but who knows.

 

The time for Torre to leave NY is now. He's not a managerial genuis, but he's better than many. I'd see him landing in another market that can afford to spend, and I wondered a while back if StL & NYY are simply going to swap managers. LaRussa mentioned that he'd be willing to take a pay-cut to prove he can handle the glare in NYC.

[Diskono]

Cities Joe Torre played in:

Milwaukee

Atlanta

St. Louis

New York

 

Cities Joe Torre managed in:

Atlanta

St. Louis

New York

 

not that that means anything.

[AJAY]

I can't tell you how much the thought of Joe Torre as Brewers manager excites me. I am all for becoming a high profile franchise. The media attention would be amazing and would thrill me. I am all for hiring someone who has lots of experience and has won both as a player and manager. I am all for hiring someone who is extremely well respected. I am all for dumping Ned.

 

Sometimes you have to make these kind of moves to elevate your franchise to a whole new level. The fan base would go nuts.

 

Call the guy and start talking at least. Quit being the Brewers of old.

[Law Diggety]

Don't the Washington Redskins spend as much as the Yankees on a comparitive level every year? What about the Dallas Mavericks? What have these teams ever won? I am not a Yankees fan by any means but I do believe the run that Joe Torre put together was something of a miracle that we will not see for a long time in baseball.

 

Torre might not hit and run at the most apt times or some other tight in game decision that Yost would be beheaded for but don't most people on this forum believe that the AL is a much easier division to manage in?

 

All I read about for months is that Yost isn't a leader and cannot handle the pressure. Yost does't know how to handle his team. Well guess what Torre can do both. That is what he is famous for, not so much in game decisions, in reality with that payroll it isn't hard to figure out who your position players are or what your rotation is but how do you get them to play together.

 

If anybody looks at his tenure as a Yankee and sees it as a disapointment, I just wish I would be such a disapointment. Bringing what 4 championships in a 5 year span to a demanding owner when your job was on the line every year.

 

Maybe he got better at his job with age and handling the media and oversensitive pre-madonna's that this 24 ESPN culture that the world generates is his best asset. I only wish we had a guy like him on our side.

[AdvantageSchneider]

I don't see why Torre would be an upgrade for Milwaukee. His best attributes, handling the media, handling his player's egos and handling a meddlesome owner would be wasted in Milwaukee. Milwaukee doesn't have those problems.

 

His biggest fault, bullpen management is a problem our current manager has. And we don't have a in his prime Mo Rivera to turn the game over to. I don't see how Torre is an upgrade.

 

We need a manager that is strong in baseball tactics, not media relations.

 

Torre's a HOF, for sure, but he's not the right manager for the Brewers.

[trwi7]

handling a meddlesome owner would be wasted in Milwaukee.

 

He could give Larry Harris some tips on that.http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif

 

Seriously I'd be all for Joe, main reason is because it gets rid of Nedly.

[SeriesFinale]

Joe Torre found much more success without the insane payrolls.

 

All the same, I don't want him here and don't think it's anywhere near a realistic possibility.

[Fatter than Joey]

I must say that I'm rather dumbfounded how the media, and some posters are playing the, This contract offer was an insult, angle.

 

Well -- The contract was not a serious attempt to retain Torre -- given the fact that he performed wildly well, he probably deserved better.

 

A recap. -- Joe Torre managed the Yankees 12 years, in those 12 years, he has...

 

1. Made the playoffs 12 times

2. Has a .603 winning pct.

3. Went to the WS 6 times, winning 4.

 

So you take a guy that has a great history of results -- and ask him to take a paycut from 7.5 to 5 million? On a team that will probably give 2 million to some stiff like Ruben Sierra.

 

In MLB incentives are largely used for players that have had injury problems or are young. A guy like Torre deserves to have his salary guaranteed.

 

I think they told Torre as well he had to get a new pitching coach as well.

 

My interpretation of this, was that Torre was fired, but the Yankees were hoping to look like the good guys here.

 

Plenty of business contracts in the real world, not just in sports have incentive clauses, I don't see why the manager of a baseball team should be any different.

 

Joe Torre is better at what he does than most people in their profession, it's just not fair to compare a guy like Torre to random people in random industries, I know in my field the really talented top people get their salary guaranteed, and would never have their salary replaced with incentives, which is effectively what happened to Torre.

[Diskono]

I think that part of the Yankees' decline (if you can even call it that) is that they gave too much money to aging players who aren't as good as they once were. The Yankees spend a lot, but they don't have unlimited money. Their roster is filled with $10m/year or more players who either never play or simply aren't that good anymore. They don't have any roster flexibility. If all of their players signed new free agent contracts today, I don't think it wouldn't add up to anything close to what the Yankees' current payroll is. Blame Steinbrenner and Cashman for this. I don't think Joe Torre's teams of the 90s overachieved, but they certainly didn't underachieve either. If you feel that the Brewers underachieved under Yost, I think Torre would be an improvement. I don't think he's the best option or anything, but he's worth considering.

[bobskube]

Ned would be stupid to turn down adding Torre to the staff. This is a guy who can make him look good. Here's a guy who can come in as bench coach, have a huge impact on Yost and the Brewers, and add years to Yost's career.

 

The only reason Yost should be opposed to that is if he isn't confident in his team's ability to get the job done. Heck, if that's the case, he doesn't deserve to be here anyways.

 

You don't think Mark A., a huge Yankees fan, will at least make a phone call?

It would stun me more than App. State beating Michigan if Joe Torre came on as a coach.

 

I see him taking a three year deal somewhere that has a chance to win. Milwaukee would be an option although i would highly doubt it. I am not the biggest Torre guy in the world but I believe he would be a better option than Yost because of the respect he earns all the way from the players, to the umps, to the opposing team and management. People get on him about bullpens, but before Rivera the last couple of years, he has had nothing.

 

[Fatter than Joey]

I think that part of the Yankees' decline (if you can even call it that) is that they gave too much money to aging players who aren't as good as they once were. The Yankees spend a lot, but they don't have unlimited money.

 

I think that it is important to remember that while Torre probably had the most payroll -- there were a lot of Carl Pavano/Chuck Knoblauch contracts under his regime as well.

[TooLiveBrew]

If anybody looks at his tenure as a Yankee and sees it as a disapointment, I just wish I would be such a disapointment. Bringing what 4 championships in a 5 year span to a demanding owner when your job was on the line every year.

 

This is the myth of Joe Torre. He's an average to above-average manager who's had insane amounts of talent with which to work. Even Yost would have won a WS with the roster the Yanks had in the late 90s. Check out his record pre-NYY. You'll see some different results.

[mothershipconnection]

The idea of contract incentives for a manager based on the round of the playoffs you make is pretty silly. Yeah, you may be able to have enough influence over the course of the year to push your team into the playoffs through good decision making. In one or two deciding games, though, all you can really do is blow the game and not win it - that's in the player's hands by that point in the season.

 

I can totally understand why he'd reject a one year tender. Seriously, that lame duck crap had to drive him insane this year and I'm sure he didn't want to go through it all over again.

[GAME05]

even though he was paid more than anybody, i viewed the decreased offer for next year as a way of Stein Jrs. to push him out, knowing he'd reject it, but then be able to take the high road about it, that Torre walked away from the Yankees and wasn't fired.

 

i know Torre going to the Brewers is somewhat ridiculous at this point, but bottom line Torre's a winner. Milwaukee's past the point of needing a rah-rah manager to lift the lagging spirits of a losing team. We've clearly reached the point that we have the talent and ability to win, and it would be great to have a manager that not only knows how to win, but expects it.

 

I wonder if Mariano Rivera will follow Torre to whichever team he ends up managing.

[Fatter than Joey]

The idea of contract incentives for a manager based on the round of the playoffs you make is pretty silly.

 

Especially for a manager who has made the playoffs 12 years in a row.

 

I am not the biggest Torre guy in the world but I believe he would be a better option than Yost because of the respect he earns all the way from the players, to the umps, to the opposing team and management.

 

Yeah -- there is no question that the Brewers would get an upgrade in credibility -- He has been in baseball pretty much non-stop for 47 years -- was a borderline HOFer as a player, multiple AS, and also a MVP winner. He has been in the playoffs a lot these last 12 years. It's pretty safe to say Torre has a better understanding of what it takes to get it done both as a player and a manager than Ned Yost does.

 

I would also think a guy like Torre would help us in the FA market not only with Rivera but others as well.

[GAME05]

that past many Yankees teams could just have easily imploded from the pressures of Steinbrenner and the playoffs and the infighting between every big-name, big-money player on that team. it's a huge credit to Torre's still as a manager that despite all of it, the Yankees played like a team better than most.

 

boy, just imagine how happy Torre would be on such a relatively low-stress team like the Brewers. plus an attitude from the media of "we're happy for a win" instead of "you lost. it's your fault. you stink."

 

"I would also think a guy like Torre would help us in the FA market not only with Rivera but others as well."

you mean like A-Rod?

[jazzytrav]

Not sure if this is up yet, but Torre had his first press conference this afternoon since turning it down.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3070544

 

He mostly felt that the team wanted what he could do "for them", not "with him"...this based off of the incentives. In other words, there was no committment. He officially called the offer an "insult". He also added this tidbit about the incentive portion of the offer:

"I've been there 12 years and I didn't think motivation was needed."

And this about the salary offer itself:

"The fact that somebody is reducing your salary is just telling me they're not satisfied with what you're doing,"

 

Also, things that we mostly knew but were talked about:

-Pettite sounds like he's done with the Yanks, possibly baseball

-Mattingly is the front-runner to take his spot

-Joe still wants to manage again in some capacity, says "I still feel the energy level"

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Joe Torre to the Brewers = Reggie White to the Packers

 

Packers had a "young core" when they brought in White.... so do the Brewers right now

[logan82]

The offer to Torre was insulting. Asking a guy to take a cut of 33% is very insulting. What if your boss told you you had to take a 33% paycut. Then after a year he was going to flip a coin 5 times. If it comes up heads 3 times you get 20% of your salary as a bonus and move on to 7 coinflips. If that comes up heads 4 times you get another 20% bonus. The baseball post season is such a crapshoot that any incentives based on post season performace amounts to coin flips.

 

A one year contract for anybody in baseball or any other major spot is just a joke. The only people who should take those contracts are players getting lowballed because they are coming off a major injury or fringe players.

[danzig6767]

Joe Torre to the Brewers = Reggie White to the Packers

 

Packers had a "young core" when they brought in White.... so do the Brewers right now

 

I'd love nothing more than to see Yost sent out the door,but no baseball manager could compare to a signing like Reggie White.Besides the fact that great players are more important than managers,Reggie White helped change the whole face of the Packers franchise around the NFL.It was a city most football players want no part of to a place players were then taking less money to come play for.

Plus,it's not like Yost seems to have a problem with guiding the young core of players.They all look to play hard for Ned and we don't see any signs of disrespect going on.Ned just isn't the brightest fish in the sea when it comes to in game choices.

 

[AdvantageSchneider]

If I was a highly compensated employee, and I made twice as much money as anyone else in my field I would not be insulted if my boss asked me to take a pay cut if I failed to meet my goal for the last 7 years.

 

Had Torre gotten back to the WS he would have made more money than he did last year. That's all the team was doing, aligning Torre's pay structure with the organizations' goals. It's not different than stock options for a CEO based on EPS or stock price.

 

The Yankees are different than any other team in baseball. They don't just want playoff appearances. When you have a $200 million payroll you expect championships. That's the deal when you take the job and get paid twice as much as any other manager in baseball.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

I can't believe I am saying this, but Steve Phillips actually made a very good point today. He said the way this was handled is a clue as to who is controlling the Yankees right now. Steinbrenner would have just cut ties with him and not played these games (i.e. giving Torre a offer that they knew he would refuse just so they can say to the media that "Torre turned us down"). Steinbrenner does not worry about what the media thinks about him.

[logan82]

If I was a highly compensated employee, and I made twice as much money as anyone else in my field I would not be insulted if my boss asked me to take a pay cut if I failed to meet my goal for the last 7 years.

What if your boss cut your pay based on wether you could win 3 out of 5 coin flips? When you look at the post season the odds of winning a game are so close to 50% it is about the same as flipping a coin. I know more goes into it than that, but add the unpredictability of the playoffs to the minimal impact a manager actually has and asking him to take a paycut is very insulting.

[danzig6767]

If I was a highly compensated employee, and I made twice as much money as anyone else in my field I would not be insulted if my boss asked me to take a pay cut if I failed to meet my goal for the last 7 years.

What if your boss cut your pay based on wether you could win 3 out of 5 coin flips? When you look at the post season the odds of winning a game are so close to 50% it is about the same as flipping a coin. I know more goes into it than that, but add the unpredictability of the playoffs to the minimal impact a manager actually has and asking him to take a paycut is very insulting.

 

This was an ego situation,the actual money amount likely didn't even matter.Torre already probably has more cash than he'll ever end up spending, but he felt the Yanks were in effect asking him to quit.I think if Torre felt the Yankees really did want him back and valued him as a manager,he wouldn't care if he was making five or seven million.

Torre is a proud man and i'm sure he has a need to feel truly wanted,especially buy the team he's worked for the last 12 years.He's smart enough to read between the lines and see how this all shook out that the Yankees wanted to move in a different direction,but they didn't want to directly fire him for PR purposes.