UW System and the Budget

[ryne100]

http://www.madison.com/wsj/mad/top/index.php?ntid=251371

 

For instance, the Department of Corrections and the UW System are expected to run out of money in April, he said.

For the System's 13 four-year universities and 13 two-year colleges, the governor said it would be irresponsible to open the campuses for the second semester in January if they would have to close their doors in April.

 

 

This will likely turn to politics, but I know alot of posters go to UW schools and this is ridiculous. How can Doyle even say this and have people take him seriously? I realize getting the budget done is a big deal, but there HAS to be a better solution than this threat.

[sbrylski]

That's crazy. I highly doubt they would actually shut down the UW system, but those cuts mentioned make me a little nervous. I'd rather have them shut it down and figure it out than remove classes I'll need and raise tuition.

[Tailgat0r76]

Funny you post this, I just got an email from our hall director here at UW-LaCrosse that if something doesn't happen between now and november 1st our tuition will rise 800$ for next semester??http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/eek.gif

 

I don't really know much about this issue, but I sure as hell hope I don't have to pay $800 more!

[temke]

what are they going to do, let all the prisoners free?!?

 

i will end my comments here before i get this thread locked...

[Chio151]

In order to remain politically agnostic in this thread, I will insult both sides: we have baboons arguing with chimps on how to split the bananas.

 

 

I have very strong opinions on this, but this site is apolitical.

[olliegjw]

Well, all the schools made it through last year fine. Without a new budget, the old budget is still in place. What does that say about the schools spending, if it is going up $800 per student in one year.

[hawing]

The forum staff appreciate your efforts to keep this apolitical. http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/smile.gif Keep it up!

[ryne100]

Honestly, I would rather have them increase tuition by $800 than close for the semester. I'm a full-time MBA student, so if I was forced to find a "real" job, I would unlikely come back to school at all unless it was part time. Instead of getting my Masters in 2009 it might be 2011 or later. I think alot undergrad students might do the same thing or would transfer to Minnesota schools (myself included possibly).

[Fatter than Joey]

How can Doyle even say this and have people take him seriously? I realize getting the budget done is a big deal, but there HAS to be a better solution than this threat.

 

They have been at it for 110 days now I think -- at some point you have to do something to accelerate the procedure. Basically the Senate and Doyle are on the same page, while the GOP in the house is on another page. I know that the GOP that are going against Doyle, have submitted their own budget, but they don't have the votes for that to pass either.

 

I am pretty sure that there are state laws requiring budgets and the such -- Doyle is the one in charge, so ultimately he has to be the one make the ultimatum. He has a responsibility to get this concluded, and as I said before, the GOP version, does not have the votes, so it is not as if he is vetoing legislation that everyone wants.

[olliegjw]

I am pretty sure that there are state laws requiring budgets and the such -- Doyle is the one in charge, so ultimately he has to be the one make the ultimatum. He has a responsibility to get this concluded, and as I said before, the GOP version, does not have the votes, so it is not as if he is vetoing legislation that everyone wants.

There are state laws. Wisconsin's law is that if there is not a "new" budget passed, then the "old" budget remains in place. So, Wisconsin currently has a budget, and government is still running as normal.

 

As for the second part, no one person can make an ultimatum. This is not a dictatorship. The government is set up with checks and balances for this reason.

 

It all comes down to principles. Some people want additional spending and services, others want lower taxes. They all have their right to stand up for what they believe.

[Fatter than Joey]

As for the second part, no one person can make an ultimatum. This is not a dictatorship. The government is set up with checks and balances for this reason.

 

I disagree -- The governor has a responsibility to pull this all together. While I appreciate the need for checks and balances, you can't have standstills either.

As I said before -- the GOP plan doesn't have the votes for their plan either, it is not as if the governor is striking down the will of the majority as a dictator would.

It has been 110 days, at some point people need to move forward.

 

They all have their right to stand up for what they believe.

 

Sure -- they also have an obligation to work together to pass legislation that benefits their constituents/and the state as a whole.

[JumpinMacFlash]

I know UW-Platteville is already planning for ways to cut costs. Right now, department chairs are deciding on sections of courses to cut and potential faculty and staff members who might be deemed expendable. If the budget is passed, then it's not that big of a deal, but if there isn't some kind of resolution soon, the deans of each college and administrative services are going to be making some finalizations. I'm lucky enough that I'm three semesters from graduation and the classes I'm going to need are still going to be offered, but it's getting kind of worrisome.

[Fatter than Joey]

So, Wisconsin currently has a budget, and government is still running as normal.

 

Well, I know that in my business I have to come up with a budget every single year -- I could never present last year's budget and just assume that it would work out OK. I can't imagine why it would be prudent for the state to just accept the last cycle's budget as OK for the next cycle. Costs and revenues change from cycle to cycle. I don't think any taxpayer wants to use last cycle's budget by default.

 

Currently Wisc. is the only state operating w/o a budget. About half the states require a gov't shutdown when a budget isn't passed -- the thinking behind this is that when people lose their jobs, or the buses stop running, people will hold the legislature responsible. Otherwise there really is no incentive for a legislature to work collectively to pass a budget.

 

As I understand it there are 2 issues that are causing the stalemate.

 

1.) The cigarette tax

2.) The hospital tax.

 

There are like 20 wisc legislatures that have aligned with the Americans for Tax Reform group that pledge to unilaterally oppose any tax increases, and that does not make it any easier to pass budgets.

[stoutdude04]

It says they shut down a bill that increases cigarettes tax by $1.25. Makes me feel that they care more about cigs then they do education...

[olliegjw]

It all comes to down to $1,000,000,000 in additional taxes that Doyle wants to include in the budget. Personally, I'd rather continue on with last year's budget, than raise taxes by a billion dollars.

 

You can say its only on cigarettes and hospitals, or whatever, but it effects us all. That would be a billion dollars that wouldn't be spent elsewhere. So, it takes a billion dollars out of Wisconsin's economy, and puts it into the governments hands. No, thank you.

[ryne100]

Currently Wisc. is the only state operating w/o a budget. About half the states require a gov't shutdown when a budget isn't passed -- the thinking behind this is that when people lose their jobs, or the buses stop running, people will hold the legislature responsible. Otherwise there really is no incentive for a legislature to work collectively to pass a budget.

Exactly. It will be real hard to run a be reelected when you are responsible for a government shutdown. I'm confident the budget will pass in time, but the thought of this happening is scary.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

As a School Administrator I'll offer another perspective. (Note- This is K12 not UW System but the same principles apply)

 

School spending each year increases by the CPI/Inflation (on a per pupil basis)... so basically (assuming the # of students stays the same), schools spend an additional 2.9% per year. This number is in fact very low as the cost of supplies (heat/electric/staff/gas/contracted services) goes up by 4.0 to 4.5% per year. (Hence why schools need to go to referendum to exceed the 2.9% each year.

 

Each year, property value in the district typically goes up around 6% (new construction plus appreciation)... Meaning that for the most part, school taxes (mill rate) have gone DOWN almost every year since Revenue Caps (the 2.9% cap) was put in place (1993-4). However, this year, the state is dramatically cutting the amount of state aid that districts get:

 

Example: Year 2006-7 District's Budget is $10 Million State Pays $6 Million District Levys $4 Million on Tax Base

.................Year 2007-8 Disticts's Budget is $10.29 Million State Pays $6 Million (same as last year) District Levies $4.29 Million (approx 7.5% increase)

 

So the INCREASE that you each will be seeing in your school taxes really isn't an increase. Its cost neutral, and its just the result of the State Legislature deciding that you should pay MORE in property taxes and LESS in income taxes (to the State).

 

There is no innocent party in this. Both Democrats AND Republicans worked together to compromise on Education (K-12 funding) to prevent property tax hikes. The problem is, neither will past that agreement unless they get their way on the rest of the budget. From teh Dems perspective, they will trade LOWER educational funding (the compromise) for higher spending elsewhere, whereas the Republican point of view is that they will trade HIGHER educational funding (the compromise) for lower spending elsewhere.

 

Now if only the leadership of Brewerfan.net was in charge of the Budget, we would have had it past last year at the BF.NET winter meeting http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Hope that helps...

[patrickgpe]

I disagree -- The governor has a responsibility to pull this all together

there is such a thing as checks and balances, bush doesn't have the authority to pass whatever he wants to to " put this thing together", so doyle doesn't either. The Republicans were elected just as the Democrats to do the best for their district as well as the state. This shouldn't be a Doyle steam engine.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

One more thing to add (to apply my last post to how it relates to the UW System)

 

IIRC, the UW System Budget (for 26 campuses) is about $4 billion dollars. This is funded through a combination of State Money, Tuition, and Private Donations/Grants.

 

Divided out over approx 160,000 students, this equates to about $25,000/per pupil to educate. (Note this includes building costs/campus costs/instructional cost etc)... Assuming that Donations/Grants stay the same, and the State Contribution Stays the same, then at the 2.9% inflation rate (we'll use 3% for ease in calculation) that means the UW System has approx $120 million in new cost to MAINTAIN the same programs offered last year. Since tuition is the only avenue to increase revenue the $120 million is divided by 160,000 students for a total cost of approx $750. (put another way, if it cost the UW System $25,000 last year to educate a student, $750 would be a 3% inflation to that charge).

 

Inflation is a way of life. If your income goes up 3% and your taxes go up 3%, your TAX RATE stays the same and taxes in effect stay the same. Its never wise to compare taxes on real numbers and much more useful/relevant to compare tax RATES.

[Chio151]

One more thing to add (to apply my last post to how it relates to the UW System)

 

IIRC, the UW System Budget (for 26 campuses) is about $4 billion dollars. This is funded through a combination of State Money, Tuition, and Private Donations/Grants.

 

Divided out over approx 160,000 students, this equates to about $25,000/per pupil to educate. (Note this includes building costs/campus costs/instructional cost etc)... Assuming that Donations/Grants stay the same, and the State Contribution Stays the same, then at the 2.9% inflation rate (we'll use 3% for ease in calculation) that means the UW System has approx $120 million in new cost to MAINTAIN the same programs offered last year. Since tuition is the only avenue to increase revenue the $120 million is divided by 160,000 students for a total cost of approx $750. (put another way, if it cost the UW System $25,000 last year to educate a student, $750 would be a 3% inflation to that charge).

 

Inflation is a way of life. If your income goes up 3% and your taxes go up 3%, your TAX RATE stays the same and taxes in effect stay the same. Its never wise to compare taxes on real numbers and much more useful/relevant to compare tax RATES.

 

Thank you for making so much sense, and not using any political jabs. Great great posts.

 

If more people were to view education as an investment, rather than an expense, the state would be a much better place.

[fondybrewfan]

This is getting out of hand. Throwing out empty threats about a government shutdown isnt going to do anything except maybe makig "The Other Side" look bad. This issue probably would have been resolved a long time ago if that cockamayme universal health care initiative wasn't in the initial budget. They spent 2 months just arguing that. Just my opinion but the so called hospital tax will do nothing but increase the publics medical bills, no matter what kind of crazy regulation the government can draw up to prevent this.

 

Sometimes I wish a government could run like a family. When you dont have enough money, deal with it and make sacrificies. I cant just go ask for a raise because I am having a kid, I would have to make the best of the situation. But there are just way to many special interest groups that have to much influence for this to ever happen. Cut the "pork" as they call it and government spending wouldnt be anywhere near the level it is at.

[dadofandrew]

I find it fitting that things have run as smoothly as ever despite the lack of a budget.

 

Self-importance is fine, but the truth is, eventually, a new budget will be signed. Until then, it's face time for many who feel very important now than they did a few months ago.

[Fatter than Joey]

there is such a thing as checks and balances,

 

I keep hearing this.

 

bush doesn't have the authority to pass whatever he wants to to " put this thing together", so doyle doesn't either.

 

This is inaccurate -- Both Bush and Doyle have the ability to pass/not pass things in to law. Both Bush and Doyle can veto any proposed law they find objectionable. Ultimately the president/governor signs things into law, not the Legislative branch. Obviously the Legislative branch can override a veto (assuming they win a physical challenge), -- but in this case the GOP doesn't have the votes to pass their own budget let alone override the state senate and governor.

 

Throwing out empty threats about a government shutdown

 

I think (about) 25 states require a gov't shutdown if a budget doesn't pass -- so the idea of putting pressure on the state legislature to compromise on a budget is not some sort of new concept.

 

When you dont have enough money, deal with it and make sacrificies.

 

This is exactly what Doyle is doing -- using last's years budget and trimming things that he can't pay for. Now you may disagree with Doyle's choices of cuts -- and those are fair criticisms.

 

Eloquently put: "I'm the decider, and I decide what is best. " -- GW Bush --

 

You can squawk about checks and balances all you want, but the reality is that Doyle was elected Decider of Wisconsin, and part of the checks and balances will be Doyle deciding what gets cut if this budget doesn't pass.

[olliegjw]

This is inaccurate -- Both Bush and Doyle have the ability to pass/not pass things in to law. Both Bush and Doyle can veto any proposed law they find objectionable. Ultimately the president/governor signs things into law, not the Legislative branch. Obviously the Legislative branch can override a veto (assuming they win a physical challenge), -- but in this case the GOP doesn't have the votes to pass their own budget let alone override the state senate and governor.

Neither the president, nor the governor can make a law. The legislature makes the laws. The president and governor then have the choice of signing it into law, or vetoing it. If it is vetoed, it can be overridden by the legislature. So, the House, Senate, and president/governor must all be in agreement (except in the case of an override) for a law/budget to be put into place.

[olliegjw]

I think (about) 25 states require a gov't shutdown if a budget doesn't pass -- so the idea of putting pressure on the state legislature to compromise on a budget is not some sort of new concept.

I would rather we take the time and get it right, than be put in a time crunch and wind up with garbage. The government's running fine, we have a budget in place, and they have time to work out a revised budget. Also of note, the current budget isn't exactly the same as last years budget. There are built in COLA's which automatically increase the budget for inflation, even if a new budget isn't agreed upon.