Mitchell steroid probe; Latest - Clemens headed to Court; Congress

[brewersbucks2323]

Once the floodgates of discovery begin in this case the defense can ask for all forms of cellphone records, personal e-mails, computer hard drive imaging, bank records and other types of paper or electronic discovery. If there is any proof of Clemens tampering with any of the above mentioned it will make it much harder from him to proove his case. In my opinion Clemens is going to get hit hard by the defense to provide detailed information of all of the above. If there is even one document or any form of correspondence between Clemens and McNamee mentioning the thought of using any sort of performance enhancing drug Clemens is done.

[foamboy1]

I completely agree, Robert. The suit gives him a great excuse. Did you see how quickly he ran for cover when Wallace asked him why he didn't speak with Mitchell himself when asked? He immediately disconnected himself from responsibility and said that "advice of counsel, etc."

 

Somewhere in the middle of this he said/he said the Fed's will step in....I don't think it's right, but the Bonds similarities are ironic. These large personalities are media savvy and have years of experience and swaying public opinion with their words and painting a story that might not be completely accurate. The Fed's use that to their advantage....they love this media bashing and guys go "on the record" who are trying to maintain an image....the Fed's collect the public statements and hardened positions, etc. and prepare for their interview...Bonds, Martha Stewart, Lil' Kim, etc. I hope Roger is not heading down this path. This whole strategy seems awfully contrived to me....it's designed to restore/maintain his image, but the Fed's will have other thoughts on how to digest these statements.

 

p.s...this is the first thread in my brewerfan experience where I used Lil' Kim to support my ideas. I'm ashamed of myself.

[TooLiveBrew]

Maybe she'll send you some award-show-worn pasties!

 

Clemens, just keep on diggin'. You should've just gone the 'ummm... injury?' copout like your buddy Pettite and every other admitted user aside from Gary Bennett, Jason Giambi, & Jose Canseco (kudos to those guys). This will get uglier before it gets prettier.

[don1481]

And sure enough, it gets uglier:

 

Clemens plays tape of conversation with distraught McNamee at press conference.

 

Sounds like McNamee's having a little case of "buyer's remorse" for saying what he said, regardless of whether or not it's true. Note that he did not at all imply that he lied, just that he was willing to go to jail, or whatever Roger wanted him to do. I'm guessing he's getting a ton of unwanted attention and just wants it all to go away.

[NievesNoNO]

I'm having a tought time believing Clemens on this one, although I'd like too, just like I wanted to believe Bonds and McGwire.

1. NOBODY else named in the report (to my knowledge) has come forward and said it was false.

2. Maybe it's just me, but if somebody made something up like this about me and publishes it I'm finding the 1st available camera and saying I didn't do it. I could care less if I haven't consulted my lawyer or what my lawyer thinks for that matter. The only reason to consult a lawyer is if you're guilty IMHO.

3. Does anyone know anybody that takes B-12 shots. Come on Roger, you have to do better than that!

 

The more I hear from Roger the more guilty he sounds.

 

Really this whole thing just needs to end. I'm starting to believe the numbers that Canseco first suggested. At this point we all realize it's out of control. The only thing that will clean up the sport is manditory drug testing by a 3rd party and life time bans. That's not happening anytime soon though.

[TooLiveBrew]

3. Does anyone know anybody that takes B-12 shots. Come on Roger, you have to do better than that!

 

Sure, Miguel Tejada - B12 imported from his native Dominican Republic! It's all legit.

[RobertR]

I take B-12 shots, due to an intestinal issue. I'm not aware of Clemens having intestinal issues, but a B-12 shot seems to be a fairly common procedure. But, it certainly appears he was getting a "B-12" shot instead.

 

Robert

[crewcrazy]

And sure enough, it gets uglier:

 

Clemens plays tape of conversation with distraught McNamee at press conference.

 

Sounds like McNamee's having a little case of "buyer's remorse" for saying what he said, regardless of whether or not it's true. Note that he did not at all imply that he lied, just that he was willing to go to jail, or whatever Roger wanted him to do. I'm guessing he's getting a ton of unwanted attention and just wants it all to go away.

That tape was painful to listen to, and Clemens playing it at his press conference shows how far he's willing to go to make him look like the good guy, no matter who he destroys along the way. McNamee seriously sounds like he's on the verge of suicide in that tape, and it seems like his life is collapsing just because he's been linked to Clemens. Roger has the means to construct a PR blitz to defend himself -- McNamee has to hole himself up in a dumpy apartment secluded from his family just to avoid the media attention that is literally killing his 10 year old son.

[Fatter than Joey]

2. Maybe it's just me, but if somebody made something up like this about me and publishes it I'm finding the 1st available camera and saying I didn't do it. I could care less if I haven't consulted my lawyer or what my lawyer thinks for that matter. The only reason to consult a lawyer is if you're guilty IMHO.

 

Some people consult lawyers before they get out of bed. Even if Clemens is innocent -- he probably needs to be careful he doesn't say something that gets egg on his face. Consulting a lawyer is a shrewd thing to do -- even if you are innocent.

[Phenomenal Smith]

Yeah, nobody innocent ever needed a lawyer. Faith in public opinion and the justice system is all you really need when you've been falsely accused.

[brewizard]

Clemens sounded like he was lying. His tantrums and contortions and odd behavior makes it seem like he's lying to himself.

 

I listened to that tape too. And the whole news conference, and it just sounded painful to me.

 

This is just my opinion. But it just sounded like Clemens is used to being adored for throwing strikes and can't deal with the scrutiny. So he's lying to himself and everyone - apparently believing there is no evidence against him. And perhaps there is none. This whole thing is like watching a devastating roadside accident happen in slow motion.

 

Ugly.

[foamboy1]

I take B-12 shots, due to an intestinal issue. I'm not aware of Clemens having intestinal issues, but a B-12 shot seems to be a fairly common procedure. But, it certainly appears he was getting a "B-12" shot instead.

Robert

How often do you take the shots Robert? Are you capable of injecting yourself or do you need someone else? It's an "inter-muscular" injection, is it not? Or is that intra-muscular?

I guess I'm asking rhetorically. My belief is that someone who routinely takes injections will be good at giving it to themselves. If Clemens needs B-12 as a matter of routine, why not just give it to himself. Why are these guys needing to inject each other?

[NievesNoNO]

Yeah, nobody innocent ever needed a lawyer. Faith in public opinion and the justice system is all you really need when you've been falsely accused.

Fair enough, but would your first reaction be that you shouldn't say anything because your lawyer advised you against it if you were really innocent. I guess I stand corrected on the B-12 shot thing also.

[RobertR]

How often do you take the shots Robert? Are you capable of injecting yourself or do you need someone else? It's an "inter-muscular" injection, is it not? Or is that intra-muscular?

 

I guess I'm asking rhetorically. My belief is that someone who routinely takes injections will be good at giving it to themselves. If Clemens needs B-12 as a matter of routine, why not just give it to himself. Why are these guys needing to inject each other?

FWIW, I get shots once a month. I suppose I could inject myself, but I'm just squeamish about needles. And I've been poked a lot in my life.

 

Robert

[RU Rah Rah]

If Clemens is indeed innocent, I don't blame him for getting angry and attempting to use the courts to clear his name. I would probably do the same thing, if I were in his position.

 

But he still has to be the least likable presumably innocent (until proven guilty) guy I've ever seen. Can you imagine him testifying before a jury?

[TooLiveBrew]

This is a random question to anyone out there with some decent knowledge of HGH. I know LouisEly had a great post a while back (pre-Mitchell Report) - explaining sort of how HGH works, why it's hard to detect (since it's basically just testosterone), and how it helps the athlete.

 

The following is an excerpt from the Mitchell Report, document page #10 (as opposed to the page #57/409 supplied by Acrobat reader):

 

 

"… because human growth hormone stimulates growth in most body tissues, athletes use it to promote tissue repair and to recover from injury."[/i]

 

So the question is, does "growth in most body tissues" mean that HGH could be helping an athlete's tendons grow/strengthen? I know one reason there have been so many injuries involving steroid use/abuse is that the muscle mass eventually becomes too much for the tendons to bear. Is anyone able to elaborate a bit on this? Fwiw, elaborating does include, 'No. That's not how it works.'

 

Thanks in advance!

[Big Reed]

an interesting revelation was made in today's hearings by a Senator from Conn. he said that in 2006 there were about 25 major league baseball players who were taking legally prescribed drugs for their attention deficit disorder. this was all within the law and the players all had to ask for waivers/permission from major league baseball to take the associated drugs. However, in 2007 that number of players being prescribed drugs for attention deficit disorder had climbed to over 100. That's an increase of 75 or 500% in one year. that's a red , white and blue and orange flag!! the Senator claimed this new level of players with attention deficit disorder playing baseball is now 8 times the level of the normal society/population. Mitchell claimed that wasn't an area he was looking into as part of his investigation, so he had no answer as to why so many players in major league baseball suffered from that disorder last year or why there was such an increase over the previous year or wh y so man y players were now taking prescribed drugs associated with ADD.

 

 

 

my take - either we have some real dumb rookies who never listen or pay attention, or we have a lot better doctor care or ADD is a virus or the more obvious is true.

 

 

 

The more obvious is that athletes are now taking ridline and other ADD prescribed drugs to possibly counter the affects of the steriods and HGH they are taking. or they are using this drug as a masking agent for the real drugs they are taking. or now that MLB took away their amphetimines and other uppers and downers, they are looking for other drugs to give them the edge/fix. I almost think it's a combination of all three.

 

 

 

People that take steriods and HGH probably do suffer from side effects of taking the drug. I think it's highly possible taking steriods could result in a person developing attention deficit order as a side effect. However, from my knowledge of today's school systems and working with people with disabilities in college , I am quite confident that 99% of all Americans are identified as having ADD before they enroll in 7th grade. This is not a disorder like MS that attacts people at ages 22-30. it's possible that the many foreign players did not have the same resources for early detection of this disorder. but I'm not buying that. Unlike the flue, you just don't have massive outbreaks of ADD. and in the US it's detected by competant authorities before you turn 12.

 

 

 

Could ridilan and other ADD drugs legally prescribed be used as a masking agent to hide the levels of other drugs in your system? I read a medical report last year that taking huge amounts of HGH will affectively mask the use of taking steriods. Supposedly, by taking huge amounts of HGH, when tested for steriods, the amount of steriods in your system appears low and the test results come back to say you have a normal amount in your system. Just don't take a test for HGH and other people will never know. I don't know if ADD drugs are an effective masking agent for other drugs. but i do know that people that sell steriods and HGH have probably taken the time and energy to find out what drugs can act as masking agents.

 

 

 

In Illinois, we now have a no smoking ban in all public workplaces including prisons. Prisoners were forced to stop smoking cold turkey on 1 january. This is a rather harsh and cruel punishment for smokers. I'm not sure if they are being provided with a nicotene patch or some other drug to get them through the initial loss of smoking. i would think it's only natural if a player has been taking uppers and downers and bennies and greenies for the past 10 years and all of a sudden they were all taken away, that the player would turn to some other type of drug to fill that need. So to fill that need, players are now getting doctors to say that have ADD and are prescribing them ADD drugs to fill their void and provide the quick fix? it's possible. I know how easy it is to be identified as a person with attention deficit disorders. People in college "try" to do it all the time so they can gain advantage in taking their midterms. Once the word gets out that people with ADD can be allowed 3-4 hours to take an hour mid term, there are many students who "try" and request to be classified as ADD. But a college will not classify a student as having ADD. that has to be accomplished by a doctor. A college /school guidance counselor can refer a student, but not diagnose the disorder. Major league baseball players have access to team doctors who can diagnose ADD and can also prescribe the medication/drug.

 

 

 

I know I could easily be described as having ADD. I know a lot of posters here who would swear I was either ADD or on drugs. I'm constantly asked on other forums if I'm drunk or on drugs in response to my eclectic oppinions/posts. it's my oppinion a baseball player could easily fake ADD or have a doctor say he has ADD without the player really having the disorder and anybody questioning the diagnosis. Nobody would question if TO or chad johnson said they were ADD. . I've worked with children in schools and boy scouts and relatives who had ADD. Some of them are just as wild when taking the drug or when off their drugs. I've seen the effects of the drug first hand. one benefit is it has a tendency to increase your visual awareness and mental focus.

 

 

 

As the Senator said, I have a very hard time believing that MLB has a rate of players with ADD that is 8 times the national average for this disorder. I do not believe it was by sheer coincidence that the number went from around 25 diagnosed cases in 2006 to over 100+ in 2007. This leads me to believe we have a lot of unethical doctors treating baseball players who are prescribing the drug as either a fix for the abscence of amphetimines, a masking agent for HGH or steriods, or worse yet treating the after affects of taking the steriods and HGH. and that MLB is just approving the exemptions without asking any questions.

[TooLiveBrew]

in 2006 there were about 25 major league baseball players who were taking legally prescribed drugs for their attention deficit disorder. this was all within the law and the players all had to ask for waivers/permission from major league baseball to take the associated drugs. However, in 2007 that number of players being prescribed drugs for attention deficit disorder had climbed to over 100. That's an increase of 75 or 500% in one year. that's a red , white and blue and orange flag!! the Senator claimed this new level of players with attention deficit disorder playing baseball is now 8 times the level of the normal society/population.

 

I wonder what Angel Salome's "coach" would have to say about this...

[pogokat]

aren't ridalin and adderol just legal amphetamines? I would suspect a few guys got the diagnosis to cover their speed habits..

[RU Rah Rah]

Looks like Tejada could be in trouble. This from the AP:

The U.S. Congress asked the Justice Department to investigate whether former MVP Miguel Tejada lied to committee staff when he was interviewed in 2005 in connection with the Rafael Palmeiro steroids case.

House Oversight and Government Committee chairman Henry Waxman opened Tuesday's hearing into the Mitchell Report about drug use in Major League Baseball by announcing he and Tom Davis sent a letter to Attorney General Michael Mukasey on Tuesday.

"Tejada told the committee that he never used illegal performance-enhancing drugs and that he had no knowledge of other players using or even talking about steroids," Waxman said. "Well, the Mitchell Report, however, directly contradicts key elements of Mr. Tejada's testimony."

[Mass Haas]

Rotoworld reports that Miguel Tejada's brother died in a motorcycle accident today. Man...

[foamboy1]

aren't ridalin and adderol just legal amphetamines? I would suspect a few guys got the diagnosis to cover their speed habits..

 

Essentially yes....but they are not the only ones.

[snyttri]

What stories are some of America's healthiest people giving to doctors to get their amphetamine and substitute prescriptions (ritalin is not an amphetamine)? Do they all read from a similar script like they do when they fail a test or get outed in a report or a book(it was a nutritional supplement, I only did it once, why would I want to ruin my health)?

[Cooper]

First, let me say that if this has been posted already, I apologize. I did a quick keyword search on the forum and didn't stumble on anything that appeared to mention and or create discussion on what I've linked below.

 

With that out of the way, I googled my way into this little blog containing some background information on Brian McNamee. If ESPN can be considered a reputable source, then it's definitely worth reading for those interested.

 

Background tidbits on Brian McNamee.

 

Personally, I don't have a dog in this fight. I doubt I ever will. I guess my strongest opinion is that the crackdown on drugs in pro sports shined a light on Major League Baseball more than any other sport that doesn't require you to hop on a bike and ride through France or dishes out medallions to point out that an athlete did a really good job in whatever event that (s)he just participated in. The truth is this kind of stuff can likely be found in any and every type of entertainment business (from athletes to actors). Baseball has been the scapegoat for years in regards to this stuff. The majority of the other entertainment outlets end up getting minimal coverage, if any. There's more than enough blame to go around for everyone when it comes to this stuff... To me, it just seems like MLB takes the largest portion of heat for this sort of thing, while other major sports somehow escape the same type of scrutiny for similar infractions.

 

Outside of that, someone (be it Clemens or McNamee) is lying here. We may never know what the truth is on this, but the link above pretty much hurts McNamee's credibility in my eyes. Regardless of the truth, I'll always feel like there's probably more important things for our elected officials to worry about. I'm pretty sure our tax dollars can probably be put to better use somewhere else.

 

Isn't it strange that if Hank Aaron played ball today, he would most likely have been suspended at least once for 'violating the substance abuse policy? He's admitted to taking greenies during his playing days... Much like many other athletes did during his time in the league.

[Big Reed]

I believe fehr tried to point out yesterda that baseball was a lot cleaner than most other sports, but the hearing people didn't want to listen. it's nice to know in football, if you do steriods, and get caught, you can still be selected to the pro bowl and /or play in the Super bowl. my guess is merriman stopped doing steriods and started doing HGH.

 

Athletes have been identified as being on the juice in baseball, football, wrestling, golf, tennis, swimming, hockey, track, cycling, and luging. it's hard to believe NBA players are not on some type of substance/juice. Maybe the other drugs NBA players take hide or provide a higher high than steriods. I have to believe if track, golf and tennis players are on the juice, tha t basketball players must be taking something for all those hamstring pulls and long air flights. You can't stay up till 3 am at the strip clubs and still perform the next day at a high level without taking something.

 

I think Congress should get off baseball's back and start looking from the other side. make it a given that all athletes take some sort of drug/juice. rather than clamping down on the sport, they should start clamping down on the unethical doctors prescribing the drugs and the producers of the drugs.

 

Then again, as Don Fehr said, HGH may turn out to be a good thing and something we don't want to ban. as he pointed out, why should we ban something when the airline magazines have advertisements for HGh saying how great it is for the general public. HGH provides an advantage. but is it really an unfair one?