Mitchell steroid probe; Latest - Clemens headed to Court; Congress

[iluvlamp]

Does anyone have a screencap of Haudricourts blog about Gagme?

 

I also listened to some Endocrine expert about how Andro could be used to conceal steroids. That is disturbing TLB.

[logan82]

I am not sure if this link has been posted yet.

 

http://www.baseballssteroidera.com/

[Team Canada]

Here's the original post (hurrah for RSS readers!). Basically smear the messenger by Boras:

 

I just spoke with Scott Boras, the agent for Brewers reliever Eric Gagne, and he said Gagne wouldn't be issuing a statement about being included in the Mitchell Report today.

 

Beyond the fact that Gagne was alleged to have received shipments of HGH in 2004, the year before that substance was banned by MLB, Boras said he couldn't believe anyone was placing credence in comments made by former Mets clubhouse attendant Kirk Radomski, who cooperated in a plea deal with federal agents after being indicted for selling illegal substances.

 

"Players all over baseball have been smeared, and by whom? A convicted felon," said Boras. "Because there are legal parameters to this, our clients won't be making comments.

 

"All I can tell you is that Eric Gagne has passed every drug test given him. As far as any punishment goes, in the due-process form this evidence is completely inadmissable."

Uh, Scott, he's a felon because he was selling drugs to your clients!!

[RU Rah Rah]

I saw this on AP, quoting Boras in the Journal Sentinel.

 

"Players all over baseball have been smeared, and by whom? A convicted felon. Because there are legal parameters to this, our clients won't be making comments. "All I can tell you is that Eric Gagne has passed every drug test given him. As far as any punishment goes, in the due-process form this evidence is completely inadmissible."

 

Edit: Oh, Team Canada beat me to the punch. (I was wondering if these were the "off the record" comments or not.)

[crewcrazy]

Looks like Haudricourt accidentally burned a source there. I hope TH isn't hoping on getting any comments from Boras anytime soon, especially since the AP picked up the quote and ran with it -- it'll probably be in every major newspaper tomorrow morning. Whoops.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Really, where would the criminal justice system be if the testimony of all criminals was thrown out of court because they were criminals? The only people in jail would be those caught red handed in the act of committing a crime. What percent of criminals are caught that way? 10%? Can't be much higher than 25% I would imagine.

[RU Rah Rah]

I have a bit of a style question here: In the Mitchell Report, Gagne's name was spelled with an accent over the "e." Is that the proper usage, and, if so, how do we insert that here on BF.net? (I can do it in Word, but I don't see a handy way to insert a symbol here.)

[pogokat]

a big hell yeah to TH on this one, burned source or not, major kudos for getting scott boras to look like a whiny child...

[aracko]

I dont care about Gagnes use of HGH. Its finally over and its time to move on from it. Like Boras said - he has never failed a drug test. Thats the bottom line.

 

This whole mitchell report was kind of dissapointing. Maybe I am missing something but there doesnt seem to be any proof to it. I need to read it entirely tomorrow but to me its allegations from a felon who was probably trying to save his butt.

 

If HGH can help you pitch, and it wasnt illegal at the time, I cant understand why you wouldnt take it. Maybe I am different than most but I have no issues whatsoever with players who use steroids. It means that the game is everything to them, and those are the guys I would pick to go to war with.

[iluvlamp]

When I thought that my opinion of Boras could not get any lower. RSS feeds do rule and thanks TC. Unreal.

[iluvlamp]

aracko,

 

Do you think about the guys that were clean and could not reach the majors because of these roid monsters? Mitchell found out and all of us know that a majority of ballplayers don't use. I am all for all that have taken steroids or HGH to be outed. It is just unfair that the game has to be played between those who use and those who don't. Maybe it is just me but competitive balance is important to me. Not just for baseball but all sports.

[There isnt a Spoon]

Forgive me if someone already said this, but there is something everyone seems to miss about Steroids and HGH.

This includes the media, fans, owners, and players. Everyone seems to forget that steroids and HGH are drugs, and are illegal; the same as cocaine, marijuana, acid, etc. Whether or not roids help the player perform, or reasons they did it (earn money for their family) - it is still very illegal.

 

I view steroid users the same way I do drug dealers, dopers that live in their parents' basement eating Doritos, or heroin addicts.

 

The main point of all this is the government not giving players a pass because they did it for the team, and trying to get the public to see this issue more seriously. I doubt Mitchell cares who was named, just as long as the point gets across.

[brewers255]

If Gagne did use HGH in 04, he cant get suspended since HGH was legal in 04, it was banned in 05, am I right? Or am I thinking of something else?

[aracko]

aracko,

 

Do you think about the guys that were clean and could not reach the majors because of these roid monsters? Mitchell found out and all of us know that a majority of ballplayers don't use. I am all for all that have taken steroids or HGH to be outed. It is just unfair that the game has to be played between those who use and those who don't. Maybe it is just me but competitive balance is important to me. Not just for baseball but all sports.

Well I dont feel bad for those guys because HGH was available to them also. This sounds sick and twisted, but they could have taken it also and maybe they would have made the majors. Its a cruel world out there. If you want to play a game for your career, you might have to do some things that you dont like or agree with. Its up to each person to decide if the risk outweighs the reward.

[iluvlamp]

aracko,

 

I just don't agree with that. Some do the up and up and some did the UP and UP.

[windiv08]

Much like the congressional investigations, Mitchell's report is a well-meaning and meaningless piece of political tripe. This entire MLB-roids media circus reminds me of the OJ trial. OJ got off and these players will too. If I see another TV shot of the back of Barry Bond's head in a courtroom one more time, I think I am going to puke. It is unfortunately good for baseball in the dead of winter because no matter how negative all this hand-wringing and continued window-dressing appears to be, it raises MLB's profile in major markets devoid from any home stretch NFL hopes this year (New York, Chicago, Atlanta, San Francisco, LA...representing 80% of MLB's revenue). And no matter how 'wholeheartedly' Commissioner Selig 'embraces' Mitchell's recommendations (as if Selig had no hand in helping Mitchell formulate them...SURE!) the use of performance enhancing drugs went on and was gotten away with under Selig's watch. As much as I hate to see it, I am a realist: If anybody gets DQed from the HOF for this under Selig's watch, I will be very surprised.

[TooLiveBrew]

Alright, since this next story is relatively long, I'm going with the short, short version.

 

 

In 2002, the Marlins' bullpen catcher, Luis Perez, was busted for trying to sneak a duffel with one pound of marijuana through with the team's baggage at the Montreal airport. When questioned, he...

 

"...explained that during his time as bullpen catcher for the Florida Marlins, between 1998 and 2001, two players asked if he could obtain steroids for them. After he was successful in doing so, word spread, and he became a source for players to acquire steroids and other drugs. Perez alleged that he had witnessed widespread use of steroids and other drugs. According to [Commissioner's senior VP for security Kevin] Hallinan's memo, Perez told baseball officials '...that virtually every player on the Marlins was 'doing something' ranging from steroids and greenies, to marijuana, etc. He also claimed that every pitcher in Montreal's bullpen was on some form of steroid.'

...

"At the conclusion of their interview of him, Perez's lawyer handed to Hallinan and [his deputy Martin] Maguire a typed list of players and their 'drug of choice' that had been compiled by Perez. The list identified eight players (with the Marlins, Astros, and Expos) for whom Perez personally had acquire anabolic steroids, in addition to identifying twelve players for whom Perez had obtained other drugs.

"Hallinan and Maguire both said that they regarded Perez as a credible witness. Hallinan told us that the Perez incident could have been the 'single most important steroids investigation' he conducted, but to his disappointment he was not given permission to interview the major league players named by Perez."

(p. 99-100, doc. page #s)

 

 

Given other incidents and the denials of interviews, my guess is the MLBPA played a huge role there. In any event, yet another incident of MLB turning a 'blind' eye.

[TooLiveBrew]

This, sadly, just makes the whole situation seem comical. It reads like a bad mad-lib, with "vitamin B12" as the noun!

 

"Congressional investigators looked into the issue because [Rafael] Palmiero told them that he had used injectable B12 vitamin provided to him by... teammate Miguel Tejada...

"According to the House Committee's report, Tejada told investigators that he generall brought injectable vitamin B12 with him to the U.S. when he returned each season from the Dominican Republic. Tejada said that he gave vitamin B12 to three teammates during the 2005 season, Palmiero and Players A and B. In his own interview with the congressional investigation, Player A said that he injected Tejada with vitamin B12 approximately 40-45 times during the 2004 season and approximately 30-35 times during the 2005 season until July, when he decided to stop doing so.

"Larry Bigbie, a former Orioles player who we interviewed in our investigation, confirmed that he observed Tejada injecting himself with vitamin B12 in the clubhouse restroom. The report that four players on a major league team were self-administering an injectable substance should have been a cause for concern, even if the players said that the substance they were injecting themselves with was vitamin B12. Indeed, the presence of syringes in a major league clubhouse, by itself, should have been a cause of significant concern.

During the summer of 2005, Tejada met with representatives from both the MLBPA and the Commissioner's Office, who told him he should stop injecting himself with vitamin B12 and take the vitamin in pill form instead."

 

 

Wait - B12 comes in PILL FORM!?!?

[dlk9s]

aracko,

 

I just don't agree with that. Some do the up and up and some did the UP and UP.

I'm with you, lamp. Even beyond some players being unwilling to do what they consider cheating to get ahead in the game, it is not fair to them because their careers are being hurt because they don't want to do something that could have serious medical consequences down the road. Yeah, sure, you can say stuff like, "Those who get ahead in life make sacrifices, yadda yadda..." But it's not fair to punish a player because he doesn't want to do something that is both against the law and potentially very harmful to his body.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

the use of performance enhancing drugs went on and was gotten away with under Selig's watch.

 

Yea, him and at least 3 other commissioners. But it's just Bud's fault!

 

 

I think I'm gonna call it quits for today on the synopses, but I'll have more tomorrow for sure. I hope people are actually benefitting from me doing this -- if the consensus is for me to stop, please let me know. This report fascinates me.

[snyttri]

The synopses are great.

 

I don't think Mitchell is credible when he says a majority of the players were not taking PEDs. As has been stated, he is an interested insider appointed by his personal friend the Comisioner and is affiliated with the Red Sox and Disney, which is in turn affiliated with ESPN and was owner of the Angels during a relevant period. It doesn't sound like Mitchell had the necessary subpoena power to discover the full extent of the problem. He is naturally disposed to graywash the issue as he has done. When an investigation is conducted by an independent party with coercive power the conclusions will have more credibility.

 

It is reminiscent of insider political investigations limited in scope to prevent fingers from being pointed at the initiators of the investigations. Here the fatal limit is on the power. Not coincidentally Mitchell and Kissinger withdrew from heading such a planned poltical investigation due to complaints about conflicts of interest. Mitchell makes a good front man for a graywash.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't think Mitchell is credible when he says a majority of the players were not taking PEDs. As has been stated, he is an interested insider appointed by his personal friend the Comisioner and is affiliated with the Red Sox and Disney...

 

Well, I don't know exactly how to respond to that. First, the report isn't about Mitchell 'saying' anything - it's him conducting an investigation, and while a report such as this is the perfect opportunity for him to grandstand, he & his co-writers avoid that at all costs (so far; I'm only through page 112 to date). Second, many portions of the report state outright (through interview testimony) that the vast majority of players were abusing PEDs.

[snyttri]

Mitchell said in an ESPN interview that a majority of the players were not using PEDs.

[zzzmanwitz]

I'm not sure what's longer... this thread, or the actual report. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[TooLiveBrew]

Mitchell said in an ESPN interview that a majority of the players were not using PEDs.

 

Thanks, snyttri. I don't watch that network at all anymore. Sorry for implying you didn't know what you were talking about, when clearly you do/did. I have yet to encounter such a statement in the report. Maybe tomorrow, or the next day, or whenever I actually finish reading the damn thing!