Leyva won't be back

[logan82]

I think though DM sort of back-handed Leyva by insinuating there were aspects of his job he didn't do well. I am not sure why that needs to be publically stated

I guess that could be seen as backhanded. I think that it is a given that he didn't do something as well as either Yost or Melvin liked otherwise he would still have his job. So I see it more as stating the obvious.

[Fatter than Joey]

I don't get why fans expect full disclosure on absolutely everything.

 

I don't think that is the issue -- I think it was odd that DM felt the need to insinuate that Leyva did some aspects of his job poorly, by doing that, I think it is natural for people to wonder which aspects.

 

I think Ned's wavelength comment was just fine, i.e. Nick's fine but doesn't share my thinking.

[mothershipconnection]

For the record, my issue with this has been more with injury stuff.

 

I think that's certainly reasonable, as those are major issues that genuinely affect the team's performance. I think the same applies to decisions to non-tender or release good players, GM's, or managers.

 

 

by doing that, I think it is natural for people to wonder which aspects.

 

I think Ned's wavelength comment was just fine, i.e. Nick's fine but doesn't share my thinking.

 

Agreed on both counts. It's probably totally normal to speculate, but not to complain that they aren't going into a ton of detail, as very few teams ever give a specific and detailed explanation for a firing. I think "philosophical differences" is adequate: how often do you ever get more than that or "we're heading in a different direction" or a generic, "we aren't winning" type of answer?

[Fatter than Joey]

I think that it is a given that he didn't do something as well as either Yost or Melvin liked otherwise he would still have his job. So I see it more as stating the obvious.

 

I think coaches are like furniture -- sometimes you change out serviceable furniture, because you want a change.

 

I have no issue with DM wanting to swap out coaches -- but I am genuinely interested to know what aspects Leyva failed on, that could potentially be upgraded in 2008. If Leyva did a poor job in bunting e.g., I find it interesting the Brewers would want to improve that.

[AdvantageSchneider]

I wonder if any of this goes back to that odd incident where Gross got thrown out stealing 3rd base against Cincy and Yost claimed that Leva misread the signs due to a mosquito bite Ned scratched.

[logan82]

Well, when I saw the coaches (Svuem, Skaalen, Sedar and Maddux) hanging in a chicago bar (with Schroeder).....Leyva was at a different table far from them. Guess he wasnt one of the "cool kids". Neither was Brian Anderson.

I thought about this and Svuem and Maddux have now spent 2 years together. Skaalen and Sedar have been in the Brewers organization for a while now and probalby know each other pretty well. I would just see this as Leyva and Anderson being the new kids on the block type thing more than anything. Hopefully they don't try to form a boy band.

[Thats Freakin Sweet]

For what it's worth, and it's anecdotal at best, but I cannot recall a season where more runners couldn't score from second base on a base hit prior to 2007. Yost on many occasions has stated that they want to be aggressive on the basepaths and force the other team to make plays, perhaps Leyva was just too conservative for his likes.

[Diskono]

I disagree; the fans have a right to know what's going on with their team.

 

I think it would be a disservice to Leyva to make these things public. If I were him, I wouldn't want the world (including potential employers) to know why the Brewers let me go.

[davego]

I'm with Augie on this one, but I see Stalinism around every corner of the dugout.

[Postseason2006]

You are talking about a public figure and entity. You don't want to get a reputation as being an organization that bad mouths people when they leave.

 

I think though DM sort of back-handed Leyva by insinuating there were aspects of his job he didn't do well. I am not sure why that needs to be publically stated

 

Like Melvin should be talking anyhow...reached on players in the draft. Made horrible trades...Signed Suppan...backed Yost,,,

[Thurston Fluff]

Doug Melvin and Mark Attanasio have been known to be very candid at times, so while not knowing can be frustrating, I have to feel that they have good reason not to elaborate on this firing.

 

If there's company policy involved in this case, I'd say it fits into the Brewers' general pattern of not bashing a guy on his way out the door. That wasn't the case before the Melvin era, and I do think it's good that the team treats its former employees that way.

 

I agree with this sentiment. As a fan we have a right to know how the team plans to make improvements on the team, we have the right to know if someone is beign retained or fired. I don't think there is any right to know the specifics of why the move was made. Not that I'd necessarliy believe any excuse they would have given anyway.

I wonder if there isn't a policy of not saying too much about former employees. It could simply be because there is no advantage to bad mouth anyone going out the door. It's a good way to make sure they don't get some sort of lawsuit about hampering further employment of slander charges. Then there is the advantage of not getting a reputation that might hamper future employees desire to work here.

 

When we hire poeple there are many former employers who won't give any comment what so ever about former employee's performance. Not so much as, they showed up on time, took too many days off, stole things, or even they were a model employee. It's odd that a potential employer can't get information they need to make a proper decision on who to hire but some fans believe they have some sort of right to know the dirty details of why people got fired. Even though it wouldn't have any impact on the situation to know those details.

 

For my part Ned's job is on the line next year. Even someone like myself who really likes Ned wants next year to be his final if he can't get this team to a 90 win area. So I think it's only fair that he gets to chose those whom he feels give him the best chance to succeed. If he wants another guy he feels he can work with better, fine by me.

I don't think there is any conspiracy going on with having Kremblas one step closer since he most likely isn't the next in line to get even the manager's job on an interim basis. That would probably go to one of the guys they chose over Kremblas last year for a big league coaches job. But I guess Kremblas is the flavor of the week. Until he actually gets the job. Then it'll be someone else who could have done a better job.

[Fatter than Joey]

Well to summarize there are 2 interesting points here (that I see).

 

1.) Did DM fire Leyva or Yost.

 

2.) What did Leyva "do bad" -- i.e. what potential improvements will we see in 2008.

[Thurston Fluff]

Since Yost still has a job I'd guess he fired Leyva. I'm not sure DM fired anyone. It may have been DM who formally did it but I think it was more Ned's decision on which of his coaches to retain.

[RightFieldCoder]

"Ned said last week that he was thinking about making one change, but he wanted to take the time to think it over, make sure it was the right move," Melvin said. "I told him to call me on Monday, and he did. I think it's clear that this is Yost's call. I think Freakin Sweet might be on to something. I cannot recall a season where more runners couldn't score from second base on a base hit prior to 2007. Yost on many occasions has stated that they want to be aggressive on the basepaths and force the other team to make plays, perhaps Leyva was just too conservative for his likes. Although I like the more conservative approach Leyva has it's clear Yost likes to be agressive on the basepaths. They just weren't "on the same wavelength" about his primary job and DM felt something was deficient as well.

 

The Brewers will move quickly in naming Leyva's replacement, general manager Doug Melvin said, and Yost already has several candidates in mind. One of them is Triple-A Nashville manager Frank Kremblas

This does not sound like they are promoting Kremblas and had to make room. It sounds like Yost, and maybe DM, wanted someone else for that job and Kremblas is the leading candidate from within. If this was a straight up make-room-for-promotion they would have announced it at the same time. And if Yost has "several candidates in mind" I believe Yost also wants to talk to some people outside the organization about the job. This will get interesting if Kremblas doesn't get the job.

 

I like that they didn't trash Leyva on his way out. To do otherwise would hurt Leyva's future job prospects. If the Brewers develop a reputation of doing that, coaches might think twice before coming here. Showing that we will treat our staff with respect even if we don't like them anymore will attract better candidates to future jobs.

[JohnBriggs12]

I was at a game in July vs. the D-Backs. Hardy was on first and someone (I don't recall who) hit a double into the right field corner. There were two outs at the time. Inexplicably Leyva held up Hardy at third, though the relay had not yet reached the cutoff man who was well down the line in right with his back turned as Hardy rounded third. Everyone seated in my area (lower deck third base side) could not fathom how Hardy was not sent on that play. I had a great view of the Brewer dougout and it was obvious Yost was not happy. When the inning ended with Hardy still at third, Yost did say something to Leyva, who looked a little sheepish when he came out for the next inning.

[billyhallfan]

Yeah, I don't think this is about Leyva at all, just that they wanted to promote Kremblas.

Well then fire Svuem and put him there, Leyva did nothing wrong, it is absolutly ridiculous to fire someone that did a good job. Why do the Brewers keep recycling coaches except one, it makes no sense to me, if they are going to keep changing Yost's supporting cast, why don't they just change Yost.

[Thurston Fluff]

Yeah, I don't think this is about Leyva at all, just that they wanted to promote Kremblas.

Well then fire Svuem and put him there, Leyva did nothing wrong, it is absolutly ridiculous to fire someone that did a good job. Why do the Brewers keep recycling coaches except one, it makes no sense to me, if they are going to keep changing Yost's supporting cast, why don't they just change Yost.

 

People wh do nothing wrong don't get fired. JB in the post previous to yours made a good point that Leyva has indeed done things wrong at times. If Ned's philosophy is to be aggressive and he ahs a conservative third base coach then it makes sense he's not the right man for the job. That doesn't mean he wouldn't be for a differant team but for this team and this manager's philosophy it is. For the record I'm probably more on the side of agressive baserunning since I think the trade off in outs is worth making the other team do everything perfect all the time.

[patrickgpe]

I agree billyhallfan, Sveun did a bad job managing the team while Yost was thrown out or suspended. Leyva was a great improvement over Sveun. If you think Kremblas should be promoted fine, but to remove Leyva doesn't make sense.

[rluzinski]

I'd rather a 3B coach be too conservative 20% of the time than too aggressive. Unfortunately, I don't think Yost would agree.

[JJHardy7]

It would be ironic if Ned picks Kremblas and then Kremblas takes Ned's job. I figured there would have to be a scapegoat -- I was hoping Ned. I do agree that it's good they didn't trash him on his way out.

[afeter]

rulz i agree.

I really enjoyed having a third base coach with some MLB managing experience. Its sad to see him go. I think ned and nick had other problems than just his philosophy at third. If ned and the organization wanted to be hyper-aggressive at third i'd think nick would just change his style and send more runners. Maybe nick voiced his displeasure with dale managing the team in neds stead. I know i would have if it was me.

[Tbadder]

I think this firing reveals a structural defect in the organization if Leyva was let go for philosophical differences, etc.

 

Any organization that has to have all its employees "facing north" is inherently weak as it will soon run out of ideas and will find change difficult.

 

It really bothers me when competent people who aren't in the "boy's club" get the axe. It shows an organization that is afraid of legitimate disagreement, and may even reveal a kind of corporate paranoia.

 

Few of these businesses ever suceed long term without wholesale management changes. One of the reasons I admire Abe Lincoln was his decision to put his enemies in his administration. To him, he needed their creative energy and their ideas in order to keep him honest. I smell something fishy in the Brewer hierarchy.

 

However, if Leyva was fired for incompetence, then it really isn't any of our business. Being fired is nasty, and outting a guy for his inabilities is just plain mean. In any case the firing of an employee is many times complex and not always obvious.

[Thurston Fluff]

Couldn't agree more with you Tbadder. I think some of Mike Sherman's problems with the Packers stemmed from this. I think there is a differance between certain types of philispohical differances though. If one guys wants an aggressive style and one wants a conservative style in one job that may be ok while in another postition it may not be compatable. Say if Sveum felt Ned should pinch hit more or have a quicker hook wiht pitchers and he makes his feelings known and got fired it would be a sign of an organizational weakness. If Ned wants a more aggressive approach at third and didn't get the style of guy he wanted I don't see that as the same thing.

[lukevan]

I really think the impact of the move is that it is causing Brewerfan.net to overanalyze this move to death. http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/laugh.gif

[jlau20]

I was surprised when I heard about this on the news last night...didn't have any internet so had to get info the old fashioned way. It seems somewhat unnecessary, unless of course the ultimate plan is to place Kremblas there so he can takeover when Ned gets the axe. I didn't really expect to see any coaching changes this offseason, barring maybe a resignation or something.

 

Nick Leyva > Rich Donnelly